gertie3993

iTrader: (2)

I recently finished swapping a 2006 LQ4 and a t56 into my car. Lately, I've been having problems with the starter. Until a few days ago, my car was starting with no problems, other than a slight whiney/squeaky sound on start up. Now, when I turn the ignition I just get a bunch of clicking. The starter, alternator and battery are all new, and tested fine. I already verified that the voltages going into the starter were good. When I was under the car it seemed like the starter may not be disengaging from the flywheel, the gear just stays in the out position. Doe anyone know what I could do to fix this? From what I've read lsx starters don't require shimming.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

They dont

You can take them to most common parts stores for testing. Beyond that, new starters are not expensive from rock auto

86White_T/A305

Is it a reman starter/solenoid? My starter only gave me problems(salt corrision from winter and weak solenoid) after serving well beyond a few swaps over the yrs and was the original ls1 starter dated in 02 lol.I replaced the starter with a slightly more hd starter since im now using a lq4 block and havent had an issue since

gertie3993

iTrader: (2)

The starter worked fine when I had Advance test it today. Its a new reman AcDelco starter, I bought it for my swap and I've only been using it for maybe two weeks. Its a truck starter. If I pull the starter, the gear resets and I can crank the motor on the first and maybe second attempt after reinstalling it. Then it just seems to get hung up in the flywheel. I also had amazon send me another to replace it, thinking it was bad, and the other one is having the same problem.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Two possible reasons I can think of,

1. Your solenoid switch circuit is not turning off. If this is the case then the solenoid hold-in coil will burn up after several minutes.
2. Gear backlash is too tight. Need to shim the starter.

Both these can cause click-no-cranks.

gertie3993

iTrader: (2)

I was thinking it was a clearance issue too because I was getting a whine every time the car started up. I did buy some shims from Advance today to give that a try, but they don't seem to line up with the starter mounting points, do you know where I can buy some for the ls starter? Or would I need to make my own?

86White_T/A305

There are no shims for ls starters as far as I know.There are slight differences in starter housings though between ls motors.Id suggest not using a reman'd starter and try your luck. My ls1 starter was slightly smaller than my new truck starter and weighed a little less.

gertie3993

iTrader: (2)

I'm not using an ls1 though, its a lq4 from a 2006 H2. The starter I bought is the stock style for that engine.

86White_T/A305

I think Ive read about guys having slight issues with starters using a gto t56 and clearance issues regarding flywheel and bellhousing but that was over on ls1tech and some yrs ago when i was asking about which starter would work without issue

gertie3993

iTrader: (2)

I'll have to look into that, thanks. I know there are clearance issues getting the fbody/truck starter into the gto bellhousing, but the bellhousing was already clearanced for that when I bought it. My only question is wouldn't the starter and flywheel be positioned the same way regardless of what trans/bellhousing is being used?

86White_T/A305

One would think so but Id matched the starter to whichever flywheel is being used should be a safe bet.

gertie3993

iTrader: (2)

I'll keep that in mind. I'd just hate to get the ls1 starter and run into the same problem.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

You cant use the GTO starter with SSW headers, the solenoid sticks out too far. All LSx flywheels are the same diameter, so any starter will spin them. When your bellhousing was clearanced for the starter, does it slip in no contact or does it need to be pulled up with the bolts?

gertie3993

iTrader: (2)

I line up the outer bolt first and then the inner part needs to be pushed in a bit to line up with the other bolt hole. After that it screws in normally

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Clearance your BH some more. If its pressed up against it, it will angle the starter slightly. If it is pushed into the flywheel it can cause the bendix to grind or catch. Shimming wont help that

Plan B would be to grind a little off the starter snout

gertie3993

iTrader: (2)

I was able to clearance the bh more, to the point where the starter goes in without problem. The starters still not wanting to turn over. I noticed when reconnecting the battery I get a single click from the starter. It looks like when the battery is connected the starter gear goes out and just stays there. Then when I actually try starting it it just clicks.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Leave the solenoid wire off and hook the battery to it. Still click? Bad starter

If not, see if the solenoid wire has 12v on it all the time. If so, bad IGN switch

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Didn't you say the starter worked on the test bench at the shop?

Sounds like the solenoid control circuit is working fine (solenoid is actuating), but the motor circuit is not. I'd check to make sure you actually have 12V from the battery cable at all times AND that you have a heavy ground strap from engine to frame and back to battery. That's a case grounded starter so all the current is going to engine block through the physical contact with the engine.

gertie3993

iTrader: (2)

The starter did work on the test bench. I confirmed that the starter was getting 12v from the battery, and that the ground was good. I checked the input to the neutral safety switch and that was 0v and 12 v depending on the key position. Today I'll have somebody help me turn the key so I can test after the neutral safety switch. I'll also try connecting the power without the solenoid wire. Thanks for all the help

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

How are you able to see the starter pinion gear if the starter is mounted? Remember, the starter doesn't work if it is not mounted (grounded) to engine.

If the pinion is throwing then there is likely nothing wrong with the key switch circuit. I would check voltage across the contact disk in the starter solenoid during a failed crank attempt. To do this you need to measure voltage across the B+ battery terminal and the strap that goes to the motor. If there is 12V after pinion throws then the starter is bad (contacts not closing or no continuity). If there is 0V then the contacts are closing but motor is bad. This all assumes you really are getting voltage at the B+ battery terminal at starter.

You can also check motor operation by using a needle nose plier to jump the B+ terminal and the motor strap. Be warned, sparks will fly. Make damn sure you know what you're doing because you can short battery to ground and cause a fire or hurt yourself.

And please make sure you have the rear wheels in the air just in case the car goes into gear by accident. No need killing yourself with a mistake.

gertie3993

iTrader: (2)

I can see the pinion gear from the hole on the bottom side of the starter and from the gap between the starter and bellhousing. The positive terminal of the starter is getting 12.4V, and the ground is good. The click when connecting the battery is the starter gear engaging the flywheel. I found that if I turn the motor manually with a breaker bar, the starter pinion gear disengages. It still wouldn't start though, the pinion gear would reengage, but continue clicking after that. I added a video of the clicking and a picture of where I saw the gear engaged, not sure if it helps at all. It got too dark so I'll have to pick up where I left off testing tomorrow.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Straight cut gears whine. That was your sign it was staying engaged.

You need to address #1:

gertie3993

iTrader: (2)

I disconnected the small purple wire from the starter and when I connect it to the battery the gear goes to the outward position making the click noise. When I disconnect it from the battery it returns to normal. This happens to both the new starter and the old one, so would this mean they're both bad?

gertie3993

iTrader: (2)

I have used a screwdriver to work the starter but now it has the same affect as if I had done it by key.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Something is amiss. How many wires are on your starter and where are they located?

gertie3993

iTrader: (2)

The small purple wire from the ign is connected to the small top terminal. Then on the + terminal I have the wire going to the battery, and a connector with two fusible link wires. All the wires are connected as they were for the stock 305 starter.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

So it's possible that the commutator is blown from the last time the pinion was stuck in ring gear and engine ran. But I kind of expected a little more drama with shorted batter cable if that really did happen.

gertie3993

iTrader: (2)

So I pulled the starter and connected it directly to the battery with jumper cables. When I jump it with a screwdriver it works perfectly fine. When I put it back in the car I just get a click like it hits the flywheel gear and stops. I can turn the motor over without too much trouble with a breaker bar, so I know its not seized up. I also had advance recharge the battery so I know that's good.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Sounds like the pinion gear throws but doesn't engage the flywheel gear. Seems like you either have too much voltage drop in the control circuit, or the pinion gear is too close to flywheel (too little or no backlash).

Shim it and see what happens.

gertie3993

iTrader: (2)

I made a shim for the starter, and all the whine that I was hearing on start up is now gone. I was still getting the clicking, so I began checking the connections again. I did a resistance test to make sure the ground on the engine was good, but found online that another good test is to connect the jumper cable to the engine block and the other end to the negative terminal on the battery. I quickly found out that while the engine was grounded, the engine strap connection wasn't good. Thanks for all the help. Problem solved

86White_T/A305

I always assume when people do motor swaps that they always upgrade main cable wires and ground points to avoid situations like opps forgot the grounds on the back of the heads and the ecm doesnt work type of threads lol. Glad you got it sorted it and it fires up everytime. The biggest headaches alot of times are from the simplest oversights.