cypris09

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys got a situation here and I want to pick your brains. I recently cracked a piston on my turbo motor and plan on selling the rest of the good stuff for a ls or like the title says sell everything cluding my gta for something a little older.

Ok so I did a little looking around and at the moment the best deal seams to be a 98 ls1 and auto trans from a trans am for 2000. I think this includes harness and computer. Is this a good deal?
Also I plan on running just the plates for the motor vs the whole crossmember. As far as the harness goes theres 3 options other than a new one for me. Do it myself (kinda ify) pay 600 for speartech to redo it or find what pocket wants to do it
I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of other thing but what are they? And approx cost? Or should I just say goodbye to my gta? Thanks in advance for any advice/ opinions

cam-

Are you planning on boosting the LS1? Hard to make sense of what your asking here

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

No I would be selling basically my motor, trans and turbos for a ls setup. What I'm asking is if I just run the stock ls right now and use adapter plates. What other costs am I over looking? Trying to price things out and figure which way I want to go with things bc it seems pretty straight forward to me. I have the fuelpump and new aftermarket gauges. So to me its the cost of motor, trans , exhaust work and wiring. Right? Or am I missing something huge?

Essentially the 2000$ i get from my stuff goes to the trans and and motor as listed above. I just want to make sure all i really have to look at is the wiring, exhaust and the two conversion parts from Hawks.

Trans mount:
http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/pr...tic-4L60E.html

Motor Mounts:

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/pr...s%2C-Pair.html

cam-

Ahh I see. Well 2000 for a complete dropout with everything doesnt sound bad to me but there are a few things your going to want to check out considering age of it now being 98. With dropouts its hard to tell actual mileage so a top end inspection can tell you a lot. Sludge build up is a big tell that it hasnt been maintained overly well so likely will benefot from trunion, pushrods, and new lifters which starts the old "might as well" list for items like cam, heads and whatnot. Speaking of heads the 97/8 LS1's have one off units with perimeter bolt valve coverss. Also the ECM and harness are also specific to those years.

Some things I know I would upgrade on any 99 or older LS is rod bolts, oil pump, more than likely trunions now, with the might as well list of cam, pushrods, valve springs, lifters and a fresh set of 5 layer stock GM head gaskets and head bolts.

The big gains with getting an 98+ F-body drop out is the oil pain and pick up, Front accesory drive, and low rise intake. So fitment wise you win big with this purchase as well as torque arm provision on the trans so swap part wise? You really dont need much more than the adapter plates and then a fuel system or on the cheap a Walboro with a C5 fuel filter and of course exhaust.

Pending time and skill you can cobble together most everything you get with the 98 and go.

Look at the big plus to this kind of build though. Platform. Once your over to an LS platform? Well... its good times for most of us hehe. Plenty of low buck go fast mods with such durable shorts and efficient on fuel too. Lots of plusses.

Just be cautious and inspect it well. With the age, potential abuse ( F-body stuff typically has the snort wrung out of it ) its not always roses these days on used ones.

Hope this is of some help

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

Thats exactly what im looking for, The plan being (as im buying/ moving into my house in july) i get the ls in the gta as stock drive it for the summer and winter it will most likely get the full work over. I just didnt want to have say another 1500$ out of pocket vs sell everything and get a older project. Looks like i will probably work on the gta instead. My brother works at a junkyard and says that most places they deal with the 2000$ is a common deal. Should i just wait for a 2000+ motor? Also iv seen from a few places right around 300 to tune the ECM does that sound about right or should i try to find a local shop to do it?

cam-

Prices are always going up/down and they have become vastly different from region to region. Supply and demand I guess. Tune wise yeah that sounds about normal for a basic NA tune these days ( no dyno or crazy cam, big injectors etc that gets pricier ) 3-500 usually I see guys mentioning for tune costs. As for wait for fresher engine? Up to you really but I would hesitate to run a 98 so long as it inspected out okay and yards usually test them and have grade rating thats pretty consistent. Trust your gut and follow your wallet lol

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

Fair advice right there! Thanks for the help, if i need more I know where to come!

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

98 block can only be honed .005" so basically you need a great block from start not much to work on
99+ block can be bored/honed .010" more room to play with if block is in ok condition

Rod bolts are weak in all blocks usually first thing to go spinning up to and beyond 7000 rpm should be first thing to upgrade to ARP

98 rear oil galley passage doesn't have channel that connects both left and right oil galley can go to machine shop to correct that 99+ has improved design

As mention above the perimeter style valve cover are 98 only thing as harness and computer

They say computer is a little harder to tune also

Depending on your goals and future plans but I would wait for 99+ block it only be a matter of time before you want to do more because once 98 block is done there's not much rebuilding you can do or grow on , calculate every little thing also as all the small things add up

98 block is not sought after not do to age but it's design hence the updates on the newer block and only 1 year run time seems GM corrected things quickly in introduction to the newer block and that's why you can find them dirt cheap no demand for

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

Ok, that makes sense. I'll wait for a 99+ for sure then. Basically all i plan on doing is ls6 heads and intake. Cam and valve train upgrades and rod end upgrades. Idk if ill need or want to get back into the boost world but at most it would be just a procharger or something. but im sure ill be happier with a na ls1 then i ever was with a boosted Old school chevy

WTR388

I'll be close to $7000 by the time my swap is done.
The wiring harness is sort of fun to build, and once it's in you can say you built it.
My GF's uncle has a 1600hp 67 camaro, and while talking about my swap, the biggest thing about it that he thought would be difficult would be the wiring... Which I completed in a weekend on the living room floor. I still have to wire gauges and my fuse/relay panel but that won't be done until I lay everything out in the engine bay.

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

Nice! What all do you have in it? As far as gauges any work then? Also after another read thru. Of pockets guide I may do the harness myself. Looks to be fun and shaves a lot off the cost they want crazy money for a stand alone harness.

WTR388

Mine is just stock with a T56. It was my solution to a carb that needed a rebuild and a vapor lock issue I get on really hot days in heavy traffic.

My gauges are all speedhut. Did it to simplify integrating the gauges and because I'm using the ls1 tank and pump.

If my paint gun arrives this week I'll have my body work done by next weekend and I can start the swap process right after that.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

$7000 for stock t56 swap is a bit on high side if you hadnt gotten performance parts , did you start with lt1 t56 and had to convert ? Was it a very low mileage motor ?

You can can complete swap cheaper side of that atleast $1500-1000 depending on search results

Gauges you don't need to use aftermarket you can run stock Gauges

if your using a ls1 tank just need to swap out fuel sender unit with another one so you can get correct readings you can search for part number there's a thread on it
or you can just use stock thirdgen tank and just swap out fuel pump

For oil pressure you can drill tap to use stock thirdgeb sender
Or
You can use the single wire oil sender for 4th gen or use a aftermarket gauge along with that

I used stock gauge along with autometer oil pressure and water temp Gauges and wide band A/f gauge on my front window pillar gauge holder Gauges can be found cheap

Full aftermarket setup cost more but if you like the aftermarket Gauges it does simplify things but will cost more

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

Ok. Atm I plan on the 4l60e but a t56 wld b nice but would add up.as for gauges the speedhut ones aren't terrible plus the run sales all the time. It would b nice to use the 4 gen tank. But no big deal if not. I just want to run stock for now and save up for the rest after I enjoy it for a while if it goes as planned.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

Yea t56 add to the cost especially if you need to convert one but stalled auto can be fun also lol

I agree there really nice but not required I plan to get some in due time like how you can customize them but stock do just fine for now I like go fast goodies more lol I have to look out for there sales

WTR388

my LS1 was $1500ish... And I need accessories (alt, PS, starter).
My T56 was an LT1 for $1400 (very limited offerings up here in my area... I found this one about 9 hours from where I live) And then about $600ish to convert it by the time I get my parts from RS gear and pay a shop to switch my shafts.
My order from Hawks which was my subframe connectors, engine mounts, crossmember, throttle cable etc was about $1400 by the time everything was shipped and with the crappy Canadian dollar.

I still need my LS7 clutch which is near $500 US... So by the time it gets up to me it will be over $600 Canadian.
Plus my accessories and clutch slave, line etc will be close to another $600.
Intakes parts I'll guess at $200 by the time I get it up here.

UPS shipping is absolutely insane and will avoid any company that uses them if I can get my parts elsewhere... Paying in shipping fees what a part costs is not OK.

I'm sure that if I was in the states where you guys get free shipping, no duties, are paying with a better dollar rate etc etc I would have been much closer to $5000... But, either I go local and get my bung hole raped by the Canadian retailers or I give my money to the states to save myself a bit of money.
I was looking at paying close to $900 Canadian at NAPA to get an alt, PS pump and starter.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

Oh I see damn that sucks, but makes sense , I see different threads on you guys not having much out there and having to pay up . Wish that wasn't case for you guys ..

Especially if your not close enough to drive to states to buy anything and drive back

Good luck on the swap tho

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

Dang and I was upset I was paying 2000 for a complete dropout. Sure its auto but I'm just gonna stop complaining now lol. Any suggestions on a rather agressive cam? I'm sure ill make more than enough power na rather than boost.

Also maybe I just keep overlooking it. But does some1 have a link to pockets guide for doing the harness.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

Look at the stickies

Keep in mind you can have the most aggressive cam but you be going thru valve springs often

And if you don't get a converter to match cam you will be disappointed due not being in right power band

Build your setup on what you wand trans to engine then cam should be one of last things to get to ensure you get right cam that correctly match your setup , I like futral and eps most cams they offer if not all are on cam motion , Texas speed and tick have some good cams there mostly use comp grind cams and is on the more aggressive XER lobes

They say check valve spring about every 30,000 miles more aggressive probably sooner

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

I just wanted opinions. It will be street driven so not sure on stall. Whats a good range for them? Also I just dont want to lose drivability. I'd like to find a happy medium maybe lean toward the agressive side. Who knows. Ill have to look into it

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

I understand
Depends on your cam , you match your stall to your cam
Sounds like your looking for cam for max under curve power
22x to 23x range I n int. or exh. and around .600 lift is usually the norm

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

Right. Ill have to see whats what when the time comes. Thanks for the insight guys.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I would get a 6.0L instead of an LS1. But if I was dead set on an LS1 then I would wait for an '01 - '02 SS or equivalent Pontiac with the LS6 intake and 243 heads. Eventually you'll want those parts anyway so might as well find an engine with it from the beginning.

There are lots of good cams on the market but take a serious look at cams by EPS.

Stall converter can be pretty aggressive and still drive really well. A lot of people run 4000 - 4500 rpm stall with moderate cams. You can't think old school when choosing an LS1 converter. The 4L60E drives a lot nicer with a big stall. Spend money on a converter and it will work 3x better than a lower end unit.

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

Got good yrs for the 6.0? As far as what it came in. My brother looks them up thru their junkyard database. I seem to find and getter better deals thru them vs craigslist for these. Also that means swapping over a new oil pan and intake plus all accessories. Right?
Also the ls1s from 01/02 ss or wr6 has ls6 intakes and the 243 heads?

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

Yea I agree , I'm looking for a decent short block 6.0 but locally here there up charging them since demand is high

Yea X2 on EPS cam I have one got spec out by Geoff they also have nice off self ones to beauty with them that you can get big power and longer life out of your valvetrain and also less valvetrain noise , usually cam car on comp cam lobes have a sewing machine ticking sound , but EPS was great business will buy another cam from them hands down

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

[QUOTE=WTR388;5782592]I'll be close to $7000 by the time my

Any 6.0 is good but need to look for LQ9 has higher compression due to flat too pistons vs LQ4 witg dished Pistons since you want a NA setup go towards LQ9 going towards boost in future then get LQ4 there both iron blocks

swap 243 heads onto 6.0 lq9 you essentially made a LS2 engine

Just have to source all parts needed for 6.0 vs using ls1 straight from a f body

Junkyard will always have better price vs Craigslist if luck to snag one from junkyard

Your correct you need to swap over all F body accessories

And correct on ls6 heads and intake
Separate they run about 300-400 for either ls6 intake or 243 heads easy 800 ish spent lol

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

The 6.0L is the truck "Vortec" engine, designated LQ4 and LQ9. You pretty much want to stick with Gen III engines between 2002 - 2007 model years. They come in trucks, vans, and Escalade. Gen IV engines have variable valve timing and you probably don't want to mess with that. Vans often have the most desirable coils with the finned heat sinks on the outside of the housing.

Both LQ4 and LQ9 have the same 317 cylinder heads patterned after the Corvette 243 heads but with larger 72cc combustion chambers. The only difference between engines is the piston, with LQ9 coming in at 10:1 compression and LQ4 coming in at 9.4:1 compression. People think LQ9 is better but it's not. Just get a cheaper LQ4 and put the 243 heads on it and you'll be at 10.2:1 compression. You might have to fly cut the pistons depending on cam. But the good news is the take-off 317 heads will sell fast because people want them for boosted applications.

Yes, you are correct, you will have to change the oil pan, intake, accessories, and water pump to match accessories pulley offset. F-body accessories if you want air conditioning, or Corvette accessories if you don't care missing A/C. Corvette accessories are easy to buy new. F-body is exclusively a used market and prices are over inflated due to low supply.

The advantage of a 6.0L is the 4" bore that accepts LS3 heads and larger valves, and that means you can use the awesome LS3 intake. Any head will breath better on a 6.0L because the valve is less shrouded by the cylinder. The engine gives better low end torque than an LS1 for better driveability with larger cams. LS1 kind of gets left in the dust by 6.0L and 6.2L engines. It's not a massive difference, but it is a noticeable difference.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

Forgot to mention above 799 and 243 head are same heads

There's many options out there
243 heads on lq4 or lq9 will raise compression good thing for NA setup another option is to mill the 317 heads , boosting you don't want that so so sticking with lq4 is fine

One block isn't better than the other It just depends on what route you want to take NA or boost as there both equally the same just pistons are different

6.0 will make power sooner and dont need to rev as high to make power and make more low end torque IIRC seen a thread on ls1tech where they only swap block and was about 20 ft lb difference in lower rpm I'd I remember correctly and made power sooner and didn't have to rev as high

Complete bolt on ls1 with cam and all supporting mods can make 400ish rwhp and close to 500ish or tad more or less with max effort with cnc heads and 102 intake ,6.0 make 500 rwhp with no sweat and can make more

Either way both ls1 and 6.0 you won't be disappointed

I'll say a complete ls1 saves you the hassle of locating everything needed for swap you can always upgrade block at latter date

Qwktrip makes very good points tho in his post

Fully cnc 243 heads from AI have some stout flow numbers

If running stock heads don't run cam over .600 lift flow sucks and goes down hill so not worth running a cam over .600 lift

So you shouldn't need to to fly cut piston especially for lq4
Lq9 with 243 heads you will need to check PTV clearance amd need to fly cut depending on cam

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

Ls1 swap then turbo after you get the bugs worked out. Now DO IT!

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

Being that the 6.0s are kinda hard to find for me ill prolly just go ls1 unless I find a deal on a lq4. As far as staying stock, I'm only staying stock long enough to enjoy next summer and to save for goodies.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

For what it is worth, I have a friend that put stock junkyard L92 heads (the cheaper LS3 heads) on a stock junkyard 6.0 LQ9 short block, added a TSP V2 cam without touching the pistons, slapped on a GM carbed intake and went 10.70s @ 124 in a 3300 lb car.

Now pay attention to what people are getting from their LS1's at this site. And then decide if it is worth hunting for a 6.0L.

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

I guess it really all comes down to price. Seems to me atm its cheaper to get the whole dropout from jy atm. 2000 $ covers the ls1 and auto trans plus ecm and harness. From a quick look around ime looking at 1300ish for just a ls1 with known problems. Lq4s are even harder to find and seems like the people selling ls1s are going to the lq4. Maybe once I hit my weekend ill get back on here ill throw out what info I can get and figure my options

cam-

Theres no doubt the 4" bore stuff fetches premium coin. No replacement for displacement they say and the LS3/L92 head is a big step up over non ported cathedrals but a good pair of ported 243's and LS6 intake will still make some serious jam. Its always down to a cost thing vs power goals. 800hp for 500 bucks just isnt going to happen, but we can dream

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

Yea so true , the wife other day ask how much i spent so far , it definitely hesitated and confidently under estimated total price , but she knows it was a lie lol

Reliable - fast - cheap , you can't have all 3 if you do must have gotten a finger discount lol

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

Realistcally I'm happy with 450s thats more than enough for me. So it shouldn't be to hard to hit that with this platform. As far as costs I know that you cant you cant be fast reliable and cheap. As I have it right now lq4s are fetching a premium even at the junkyard currently 3 others that are looking and easily going to spend 3-3500 it seems to get it and have it rdy to swap in. To me and my rather low hp needs, the ls1 will work for me

BDR

If you have a junkyard setup, including junkyard turbo kit, ho-hum gta with nothing special done to it, I'd just sell it all and get something older.

If you have something like I used to, a nice twin turbo 3rd Gen..then I would definitely not sell it because you'll regret it. It costs a ****-ton of money to build a nice car and starting over sucks...which is what I'm doing now.

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

Its really not all that bad, I will be breaking even on my top end and that will pay for my ls1. If i can sell the bottom end of my 355 id be happy just bc i got a solid deal on it. The turbos were the ebay ones Project said were good and i dont see why i couldnt sell those and make decent money back. All in all i should have just went Lsx in the first place.

Due to my cracked piston id spend a bit just to rebuild it all bc i had a head stud pulling out and i didnt know. But im young and it was my first real motor i have ever done so it was fun and i learned alot. Plus the "boss" wants a car so i may "give this one to her as an excuse to get one when the time comes.

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

So basically this is what I'm thinking swap in the LS1 stock and work out the bugs. Once i upgrade i plan on going LS6 intake LS6 or LS3/L92 heads. As far as the cam goes id say around .550 lift? and will fit in with a 4000ish stall? Yes i would upgrade the whole valvetrain as well. I would also assume upgraded rod bolts but how far can you push the stock stuff as far as rpm. 7000 w/o upgrades? What about with. not that i intend on going that far. Sound about right guys?

Maybe even this cam

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Again, LS3/L92 heads won't fit the smaller bore of LS1.

Do you want 450Hp at the crank or to the ground?

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

Good eye I over looked that. LS6 heads it is. Crank is fine I'm not looking to build a monster maybe the next one. But 450ish crank will still be enough to have fun and thats all I really need or want this time around. Think this will get her close?

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

No problem at all. Very easy target.

By the way, that's a lot of cam for an LS1. There comes a point where it's less driveable and not any faster. Auto transmission cars seem to work really well with cams in the mid to low 230 duration.

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

Ok ill take a look at some 230s. How about lsa? 110/112 good then? Mostly a street machine

The texas speed 228R seems to be a common cam.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

You'll have to make your own choice in the end. But again.... Take a serious look at EPS. I have a friend with an EPS cam in a stock bottom end LS1 and carb intake that puts out 480 RWHP through a T56 trans. It's easy to drive and pulls to 7000+ rpm. EPS makes cams for you so you have to pick up the phone and call them.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

I agree go EPS soooo worth it, I have one

And to OP u would be very cautious on stock bottom end rev to 7000 , one first things to go are rod bolts bottom end can hold some power

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

To be honest when it comes to the cam I have no real idea on what to get. I assume when the time comes ill need to know rocker arm ratio and a few others when I call them same as when I got my last custom grind from comp. What makes EPS so good? Also once you upgrade the rod bolts how much farther can you rev? 7000 seems high to me but I'm use to my old school one that was built to rev

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

EPS cams can make big power on smaller cam and have long , quite valvetrain life and driveability isn't lost

Most cams you see no matter who makes are mostly Comp Cam grinds with usually a XER lobe which is fairly aggressive lobe compared to other Comp lobes

EPS uses there own lobes and majority of them they utilized cam motion which is a more accurate spec cam as I hear comp cam there some +/- variation to specs

Only other cam company that utilizes cam motion is futral which would be my second choice they can spec cam for free for your build

I had my cam spec out sent to EPS to build pay little more but you get exactly what you want

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like the option to go. I can basically call them up and tell them what I'm runningand what I'm looking for and they'll help me exactly what I need then?

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

Exactly ...contact Pat G and or EPS
http://www.guerragroup.com/#!camshaft-help/c1mq5
http://www.engpwrsys.com/tech-notes/cam-design.html
Pat g has alot of threads on ls1tech

http://m.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1132839
http://m.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1175468
http://m.ls1tech.com/forums/showthre...202&styleid=27
http://m.ls1tech.com/forums/showthre...356&styleid=27

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

Awesome, Thanks for all the help. Hopefully things will work out and this winter ill be swapping in a LS1. If i have any other questions ill be sure to swing by and ask.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

No problem , got the info... now go have fun ; )