LS Preluber
10-20-2011, 11:12 PM
#1
LS Preluber
With my engine swap taking a little longer to get completed than expected I am sure all my cam lobe lube is in the bottom of the oil pan, so I did some research on building a preluber for the LS engines. I came across a thread where Hot Rod built one and with having a good used SBC oil pump handy I went ahead with building one.
I am not going to go into all the specific details as to how to build it as this is already covered, but only focus on the items that I did different from the Hot Rod build.
Here is a link to the Hot Rod build for reference.
http://www.hotrod.com/pitstop/hrdp_1106_pit_stop/viewall.html
On to my creation ...
For the pressure connection to the outlet of SBC oil pump, no drilling of the outlet was required. Even though the hole is not perfectly round, it was possible to tap the hole with a 1/4" NPT pipe thread tap at the same angle as the port. I ran the threads as deep as possible to ensure I had lots of threads for good engagement. Make sure you completely disassemble and fully clean the oil pump of any cuttings before use.
With the port tapped, I tried to use a 1/4" NPT x -6 AN fitting, but due to the angle, the fitting would not tighten down enough before the hex head started hitting the pump itself. My solution was to replace the fitting with a short 3” x 1/4" NPT nipple and run a coupling to attach the -6AN fitting. First attempt was with Teflon thread sealant but due to seepage past the threads, I used pipe tape on the nipple (pump end only) and tightened it down until it bottomed in the oil pump threads.
Here is the oil pump installed with the pipe nipple and outlet fitting.
SBC oil pump pickup cut and extended to reach bottom of bucket.
For the return line, I used a bulkhead fitting through the lid and never extended it beyond the inside of the bucket lid. No issues when pre-lubing were noticed with this setup.
For my pressure gauge, I simply installed it on the output of the pump instead of on the block.
The yellow foam is only there to keep dirt out from around the oil pump drive shaft when not in use. With the fittings installed, I installed the M16x1.5–to–AN-6 fitting with an O-ring into the front port in the block. (See link for part #) This is where GM recommends their oil pre-luber is installed on the block.
For the oil pan connection I attempted drilling an old oil pan bolt as they suggested, after screwing that up I had some extra bolts with the same thread so attempted it again … another failure of drill bit broken within .… X2. ENOUGH ALREADY!
A quick search brought me to an Auto Meter adapter (Part # 2278, M12 x 1.75 to 1/8” female) that allows an 1/8” NPT x -6 AN fitting to thread right in. VICTORY!!!
Once I completed getting the hoses together I spun up the pump with my ˝” drill with the old SBC drive shaft mounted in it and was happy to get a solid 60 PSI being delivered to the engine. I had only 5 liters of oil in the bucket and it took only about 30-40 seconds to run out. This process is not ideal, as once you deplete the bucket contents, you need to wait for the oil to drain back before you can start to lube again but seems to work quite well when oil is available. I haven’t completed a full prelube up to the valve rockers yet as I will save that until just before the start up.
Have fun starting you new engine knowing she is properly lubed before that first crank.
I am not going to go into all the specific details as to how to build it as this is already covered, but only focus on the items that I did different from the Hot Rod build.
Here is a link to the Hot Rod build for reference.
http://www.hotrod.com/pitstop/hrdp_1106_pit_stop/viewall.html
On to my creation ...
For the pressure connection to the outlet of SBC oil pump, no drilling of the outlet was required. Even though the hole is not perfectly round, it was possible to tap the hole with a 1/4" NPT pipe thread tap at the same angle as the port. I ran the threads as deep as possible to ensure I had lots of threads for good engagement. Make sure you completely disassemble and fully clean the oil pump of any cuttings before use.
With the port tapped, I tried to use a 1/4" NPT x -6 AN fitting, but due to the angle, the fitting would not tighten down enough before the hex head started hitting the pump itself. My solution was to replace the fitting with a short 3” x 1/4" NPT nipple and run a coupling to attach the -6AN fitting. First attempt was with Teflon thread sealant but due to seepage past the threads, I used pipe tape on the nipple (pump end only) and tightened it down until it bottomed in the oil pump threads.
Here is the oil pump installed with the pipe nipple and outlet fitting.
SBC oil pump pickup cut and extended to reach bottom of bucket.
For the return line, I used a bulkhead fitting through the lid and never extended it beyond the inside of the bucket lid. No issues when pre-lubing were noticed with this setup.
For my pressure gauge, I simply installed it on the output of the pump instead of on the block.
The yellow foam is only there to keep dirt out from around the oil pump drive shaft when not in use. With the fittings installed, I installed the M16x1.5–to–AN-6 fitting with an O-ring into the front port in the block. (See link for part #) This is where GM recommends their oil pre-luber is installed on the block.
For the oil pan connection I attempted drilling an old oil pan bolt as they suggested, after screwing that up I had some extra bolts with the same thread so attempted it again … another failure of drill bit broken within .… X2. ENOUGH ALREADY!
A quick search brought me to an Auto Meter adapter (Part # 2278, M12 x 1.75 to 1/8” female) that allows an 1/8” NPT x -6 AN fitting to thread right in. VICTORY!!!
Once I completed getting the hoses together I spun up the pump with my ˝” drill with the old SBC drive shaft mounted in it and was happy to get a solid 60 PSI being delivered to the engine. I had only 5 liters of oil in the bucket and it took only about 30-40 seconds to run out. This process is not ideal, as once you deplete the bucket contents, you need to wait for the oil to drain back before you can start to lube again but seems to work quite well when oil is available. I haven’t completed a full prelube up to the valve rockers yet as I will save that until just before the start up.
Have fun starting you new engine knowing she is properly lubed before that first crank.
10-21-2011, 07:16 AM
#3
Member
Re: LS Preluber
What a coincidence! I just built one this past weekend using the same article. I did the same deviation from the article also in that I used a drain bolt for the pan adapter. YES it was a PITA to drill and tap. Using that Autometer adapter would have shortened the project by almost an hour. Thanks for the info...
M
M
10-21-2011, 10:58 AM
#6
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Re: LS Preluber
Couldn't you just crank it with the starter with the fuel pump fuse out, Or just no fuel lines and jump the starter. Or is there no starter?
10-21-2011, 04:14 PM
#7
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Re: LS Preluber
The point is to get oil to all the moving parts without them moving. Spinning a dry engine over will cause a dry start. Not a big deal for common production engines but a high end build like this, its preferred to pre-lube it
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10-30-2011, 11:57 AM
#10
Re: LS Preluber
What a coincidence! I just built one this past weekend using the same article. I did the same deviation from the article also in that I used a drain bolt for the pan adapter. YES it was a PITA to drill and tap. Using that Autometer adapter would have shortened the project by almost an hour. Thanks for the info...
M
M
10-30-2011, 06:56 PM
#11
Member
Re: LS Preluber
Nope, haven't used it on the engine yet. In a couple of weeks I plan to give a a try using it as a flush pump. I am going to pump a couple of liters through the engine to push out as much old oil as possible. Seeing as my engine has been sitting for around ~2 years now it is close to a newly build engine with how much oil remains that has not drained to the pan. I will report back how long to get oil to the rockers then.
M
M
10-30-2011, 08:13 PM
#12
Re: LS Preluber
I guess I'm still trying to figure out why pre-lubing is all that necessary. If you packed everything full of assembly lube when you put it together, wouldn't that be more than adequate to keep things lubricated until you crank it with the starter to build oil pressure prior to starting?
10-30-2011, 09:00 PM
#13
Re: LS Preluber
Yeah, I agree. I can see not prelubing a pull out engine, but any new build should be prelubed.
Have you had a chance to try it out yet? Just wondering how many liters of oil were needed to reach the top end? With only 5 liters in the pail and having to drain and lube, it seems more oil in the pail is needed.
Have you had a chance to try it out yet? Just wondering how many liters of oil were needed to reach the top end? With only 5 liters in the pail and having to drain and lube, it seems more oil in the pail is needed.
ok, I have to ask... why not?
rebuilt engines have assembly lube..
used has used engine oil and wear from use at best. depending how long it sits oil drips out and only leaves a very very thin film
10-30-2011, 11:08 PM
#14
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Re: LS Preluber
Wow awsome write up for sure
10-31-2011, 01:36 PM
#15
Re: LS Preluber
The whole idea with prelubing an engine is to ensure you have a supply of oil to bearings and moving valve train parts immediately upon start up.
If a new engine is not prelubed, there is a period of time where the engine is not receiving any oil for lubrication, but is relying on the assembly lube itself, which is being wiped away with every revolution of the engine. Until the oil pump has becomed primed, then delivers oil through the oil galleries and then onto the bearing surfaces and valve train, the engine is not receiving any additional lubrication.
Same thing goes for a pull out engine if it has been sitting for any period of time, as the oil drains back into the pan. If a pull out engine hasn't sat for very long, it will likely maintain prime on the oil pump and should have some residual oil in the galleries, but if sitting for an extended period, it too may see a dry start.
On the SBC format, it was easy to pre-lube as all you had to do was remove the distributor, install either your home made (cut off distributor) or purchased tool and spin away until the top end was lubricated. No engine movement occurred during the process. With the new LS engines having the oil pump directly on the crank it is more difficult to pre-lubricate, thus a lot of people tend to crank it over with no plugs to minimize the load on the bearings until oil has reached the top end. Unfortunatley, you are spinning the rotating assembly while doing so, again wiping away any assembly lubrication during this process.
If a new engine is not prelubed, there is a period of time where the engine is not receiving any oil for lubrication, but is relying on the assembly lube itself, which is being wiped away with every revolution of the engine. Until the oil pump has becomed primed, then delivers oil through the oil galleries and then onto the bearing surfaces and valve train, the engine is not receiving any additional lubrication.
Same thing goes for a pull out engine if it has been sitting for any period of time, as the oil drains back into the pan. If a pull out engine hasn't sat for very long, it will likely maintain prime on the oil pump and should have some residual oil in the galleries, but if sitting for an extended period, it too may see a dry start.
On the SBC format, it was easy to pre-lube as all you had to do was remove the distributor, install either your home made (cut off distributor) or purchased tool and spin away until the top end was lubricated. No engine movement occurred during the process. With the new LS engines having the oil pump directly on the crank it is more difficult to pre-lubricate, thus a lot of people tend to crank it over with no plugs to minimize the load on the bearings until oil has reached the top end. Unfortunatley, you are spinning the rotating assembly while doing so, again wiping away any assembly lubrication during this process.
10-31-2011, 09:00 PM
#16
Re: LS Preluber
[INDENT]The whole idea with prelubing an engine is to ensure you have a supply of oil to bearings and moving valve train parts immediately upon start up.
If a new engine is not prelubed, there is a period of time where the engine is not receiving any oil for lubrication, but is relying on the assembly lube itself, which is being wiped away with every revolution of the engine. Until the oil pump has becomed primed, then delivers oil through the oil galleries and then onto the bearing surfaces and valve train, the engine is not receiving any additional lubrication.
If a new engine is not prelubed, there is a period of time where the engine is not receiving any oil for lubrication, but is relying on the assembly lube itself, which is being wiped away with every revolution of the engine. Until the oil pump has becomed primed, then delivers oil through the oil galleries and then onto the bearing surfaces and valve train, the engine is not receiving any additional lubrication.
10-31-2011, 09:07 PM
#17
Re: LS Preluber
I understand what's happening, I just question whether it's the big deal you make it out to be. Assembly lube is some pretty sticky stuff, and should be easily capable of providing adequate lubrication for the short time it would take for the starter to crank the motor until pressure builds. It's not uncommon to rotate a motor 20 or 30 times while building it with no ill effects. How many rotations does it take for it to build initial pressure?
Not making it out to be a big deal. The choice of whether you pre-lube or not is yours.
11-01-2011, 08:06 AM
#18
Re: LS Preluber
Right. I'm asking the questions to try and learn whether or not that choice should be made. I'm just trying to filter out the opinions and hearsay from the facts so that we can perhaps make an informed decision rather than just doing it for the sake of doing it. Unfortunately, a situation like this is kind of hard to gather empirical data on, which sometimes does require us to err on the side of caution.
11-01-2011, 09:11 AM
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Re: LS Preluber
If your prelubing a new motor, have assembly lube on everything, you push new oil thru the motor and it may remove most of the assmbly lube and put it in the pan. This may be bad if your using a old flat tappet cam and it removes the lifter lube.
Its nice to lube the motor but I dont think its needed if you use assembly lube and oil in the correct areas. because oil psi come up as fast as it does after a oil change. It is a good idea to run oil thru oil pump b4 its bolted to motor.
Just fill your oil filter and go for it.
If you cant fill your filter b4 you install it you may want to p/lube it.
There are many reasons to lube or not to lube but.....
The choice is the builders.
Its nice to lube the motor but I dont think its needed if you use assembly lube and oil in the correct areas. because oil psi come up as fast as it does after a oil change. It is a good idea to run oil thru oil pump b4 its bolted to motor.
Just fill your oil filter and go for it.
If you cant fill your filter b4 you install it you may want to p/lube it.
There are many reasons to lube or not to lube but.....
The choice is the builders.
11-02-2011, 02:42 PM
#21
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It's interesting that the factory doesn't prelube their new car engines, but the old GM crate "startup procedure" said to "prime" the oil system.
Personally, I think it's much ado about nothing. In 40 years of wrenching, I've primed/prelubed exactly 2 engine. I have never had a problem with the ones that weren't.
Personally, I think it's much ado about nothing. In 40 years of wrenching, I've primed/prelubed exactly 2 engine. I have never had a problem with the ones that weren't.
11-02-2011, 03:12 PM
#22
Re: LS Preluber
Are you sure that GM doesn't pre-lube their engines? I recall reading on 'tech that GM used the same port above the oil pump that most of these aftermarket kits use specifically for the purpose of pre-lubing them prior to the spin-verification test that the motors go through. Perhaps this was just for the low production Z06/Grand Sport motors and not all of their LS motors?
11-04-2011, 06:07 PM
#23
Re: LS Preluber
Well I couldn't leave it alone. I know prelubing the engine will remove all concerns of a dry start, but I too wanted to know what GM recommends for these engines. The answer ... Yes, they should be pre-lubed.
BUT, they suggest a different method than the one presented with the preluber here. Here are the facts right from the horses mouth. This quote is from the LS376 install procedure, but in review of multiple procedures, the theme is common.
"Start-up and Break-in Procedures
1.
BUT, they suggest a different method than the one presented with the preluber here. Here are the facts right from the horses mouth. This quote is from the LS376 install procedure, but in review of multiple procedures, the theme is common.
"Start-up and Break-in Procedures
Safety first. If the vehicle is on the ground, be sure the emergency brake is set, the wheels are chocked
and the car cannot fall into gear. Verify everything is installed properly and nothing was missed.
and the car cannot fall into gear. Verify everything is installed properly and nothing was missed.
1.
This engine assembly needs to be filled with oil. After installing the engine, ensure the crankcase has been filled with the appropriate motor oil to the recommended oil fill level on the dipstick. The LS376/480 crate engine requires a special oil meeting GM Standard GM4718M (this will be specified on the oil label). Mobil 1 is one such recommended oil. Other oils meeting this standard may be identified as synthetic. However,
not all synthetic oils will meet this GM standard. Look for and use only an oil that meets GM Standard GM4718M. Also check and fill as required any other necessary fluids such as coolant, power steering fluid, etc.
2. The engine should be primed with oil before starting. Install an oil pressure gauge (the existing oil pressure sensor location at the upper rear of the engine may be used) and disconnect the engine control system (removing power from the engine control module is generally recommended, but check your engine control system information for additional details). Note: Disconnecting only ignition or fuel injector connectors is not recommended – make sure the control system will not provide ignition or fuel to the engine.
3. Once the engine control system has been disconnected, crank the engine using the starter for 10 seconds and check for oil pressure. If no pressure is indicated, wait 30 seconds and crank again for 10 seconds. Repeat this process until oil pressure is indicated on the gauge.
4. Reconnect the engine control system. Start the engine and listen for any unusual noises. If no unusual noises are noted, run the engine at approximately 1000 RPM until normal operating temperature is reached.
"
It is not clear in the above procedure, but in review of other procedures, some do mention reinstalling the spark plugs after the prelube, so the engine is being cranked over with the plugs removed, removing any cylinder compression during the cranking.
So now we have two choices ...
Check it out here, lots of excellent information for us LS swappers.
http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/Ex...lation-guides/
It is not clear in the above procedure, but in review of other procedures, some do mention reinstalling the spark plugs after the prelube, so the engine is being cranked over with the plugs removed, removing any cylinder compression during the cranking.
So now we have two choices ...
Check it out here, lots of excellent information for us LS swappers.
http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/Ex...lation-guides/
11-08-2011, 11:14 AM
#24
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Turning over the engine without starting it until you get oil pressure makes sense. Going through a bunch of hassle and mods to run oil through the engine without turning it over doesn't.
11-08-2011, 03:27 PM
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Re: LS Preluber
The guy who built my engine (and he's done lots of LS1's down here in S. Fl) pretty much said the same thing as the above article. He said it wasn't a problem to crank the engine to build oil pressure before the first start, but he did say that the spark plugs should be removed. Makes it easier for the engine to turn over and builds pressure quicker.
11-08-2011, 03:40 PM
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Re: LS Preluber
Preoiling isnt needed...
1. 10 secs of cranking provides very little heat.
2. unless the engines in gear its just free spinning like those commercials where they run a car with no oil for hours...
3. The actual face of a new bearing is ment to be "eaten" away to polish the crankshaft.
I fill mine with 3 quarts in the pan then fill the valve covers with half quart then rotate and use the other half.
1. 10 secs of cranking provides very little heat.
2. unless the engines in gear its just free spinning like those commercials where they run a car with no oil for hours...
3. The actual face of a new bearing is ment to be "eaten" away to polish the crankshaft.
I fill mine with 3 quarts in the pan then fill the valve covers with half quart then rotate and use the other half.
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