quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

The story :

i want my camaro running and back on the road sooo bad its not funny.. i havent "LEGALY" drivin her on the street in almost 2 years now.. just the random run down the street to the gas station to keep the fluids moving and to get gas.. and it kills me.. money got really tight and well i ended up selling the car to a very good friend for his 86 trans am build.. he wanted my worked 350 and trans and most of my interior.. well he was nice enough to give me the rolling shell back after he got what he wanted.. and now i really wanna build it up again. i wanted to do this in the first place but wanted to have all the pieces together b4 i ripped the motor out.. i have joined the military and leave in april so that leaves me the whole winter to build her and get her runing.


The question


i really really want to do a ls1/t56 swap(who doesnt?) but its soo damn expensive.. well ive been searching and searching.. and couldnt find anything in my price range since i also have to do almost a complete interior ontop of the motor and trans install.. well i have found a truck load of lt1 motors for a dime a dozen.. i know the lt1 can pack a pretty good punch.. but not like the ls1. but i want the car running b4 i leave for basic training in april. im just thinking i should bow down and take a complete lt1 with harness and ecu for 500$ and find a t56 trans and throw it in.. i can always pull it out for an ls1 later on down the road and wont have to buy another trans .. what do u guys think???.. im not trying to mod the hell outta the lt1 motor.. just wanna be able to get in start her up and go for a cruiz and be able to say i built her..

should i just go ahead and build the car with the lt1 and wait 2 years or so when i can afford to buy a complete ls1 or a built ls1 and drop it in?

help me decide guys.. u guys see more of me then my gf does lol

chevyowner02

iTrader: (3)

If you want it running sounds like you will have to go LT1 for awhile. If you plan on keeping it stock you should not have have that much money in it.

When it comes time to sell expect to hang onto it awhile and the lt1 t-56 wont work with the LS1.

Tobias05

i'd just wait on both options, and save up that government paycheck till you get settled in and can do it right the first time.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I would wait and do the LS1 right. The money you put into the LT1 will be mostly down the drain, and all of the work will be.

91z28BlkNY

Hey bro, I found a guy selling me an ls1 with auto trans and all the wiring and blah blah for $1,500 in MA. motor has 110k miles

Otherwise I got my 383 stroker I wanna sell now I am thinking 400hp with everything turn key in your car. Has only 400 miles NO rebuild. New GM crate motor.

Falconiroc

I'm in a somewhat similar position in terms of availability to you, so I think I can give you some decent points of advise on this.

I'll start by saying that what you should do is entirely dependent upon when you want your car back, or when you need it back.

I'll tell you what I'm doing and why: I am using my 1995 Firebird as a donor car and moving every usable part over to my '91 RS. Then I will build the suspension up and build the drivetrain to handle the monster of an LSX motor I will drop in in a couple years. Meanwhile I'll drive my LT1/T56 car and get all the bugs out of the interior/body wiring and make the car look beautiful.

In my case I need to get a swap done quickly because I need a car to drive and both the trans and rear end of my 4th Gen are going out, and I don't want to put more money into that pile of crap, so I'm pulling the motor and interior and putting into my third gen. Thats MY situation.

For you, if you are just jonsing to have a fun car to drive around, and you have another daily driver and what you REALLY want is an LSx/T56 car then I would WAIT and build what you WANT the first time.

The swaps are more than just money, they are time, a LOT of time, in fact the parts are probably the easy part from what I can see. If you really want to understand then read all the threads in this forum and start reading through exactly what steps you will need to take in order to get the swap done and you'll see.

Whatever you decide, just make sure to post lots of pictures here of your progress, as I'm sure more people than just me would like to see them!

91z28BlkNY

Another guy selling that other set up you want with stick for $3k 70kmiles I think in PA and all the wiring and etc...

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

i think im just going to go ahead with the lt1/t56 becuase after i get back home from bc/ait ill be getting stationed somewhere (place unknown), but i want the car running because i dont have a truck that can tow it around and i need to be able to up and go when i need to and being able to drive it will make it so much easyier..

im ganna do what Falconiroc is doing and put the lt1 in and build up my suspension and rebuild my intereior.. and get all the body work out of the way.. and then when the money is saved ill go ahead and get my built ls1 or gm crate motor and go from there.. thanks guys..

i do have a turbo setup off a diesel truck might have a lil fun lol after i get it running and all the bugs worked out.. thanks guys .. anyone got any lt1 swap tips? i looked threw the swap pages and mainly just saw that u cant use ac with out moddifying the mount.. is there anyway to move that ugly alternator down and away from the top of the car?

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

see i cant come up with a large amount of money at 1 time cause of bills but i can get 500-700 up and be able to spend it or atleast half of it..are u still comming to buy my parts this saturday morning?? cause that will help

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Id put whatever was stock back in it or a cheap 350/auto carb setup to get you going. Upgrade to LS1 later

If you cant DIY for the whole LTx/LSx conversion then going SBC to LTx to LSx will cost you a boat load

cuisinartvette

Ditto keep it stock for now and start a savings fund for the car these conversions never go cheap it always costs 2-3 times more, downtime on teh car etc etc. When you got the money saved then go for it your tastes and wants may have changed by then too, it happens.

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

I no longer own the orignal motor and I want to upgrade while I have a clean engine bay.. I can do all the work myself with no problem. Only thing I don't have is a welder for the exhaust.. I have already sanded and painted my engine bay and I'm in the process of cleaning the underbody for a good truckbed liner coating.. and I'm seeing complete lt1 motors on craigslist for 500-700$ and from what I read on here I don't even need change the motor mounts.. all I would need to find is the t56 trans and cut the whole for the shifter..

Now another question
I want to put in a 02 trans am dash but will the gauges from the ls1 car work for the lt1motor and ecu? I hate wiring but can do it.. I need to get the complete wiring from the lt1 car seeing that I stripped mine down and sold the wireing for funds.. I feel that the lt1 cluster is ugly compared to the ls1 cluster.. and don't think the lt1 cluster will fit in the ls1 dash.. am I correct?

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

The camaro isn't my dd anyway hasn't been for 2 years I have a 99 s10 that I drive so I'm not worried about down time I have till april to get it finished..

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

Run a stock styled SBC and save the money from the LT1 swap. The LT1 will cost you more then a Gen I SBC and it will be money wasted.

Also, if you can come up with 500-600 dollars at a time... SAVE IT, then you can come up with 3k all at once after 5-6 "times".

Falconiroc

The LS1 Cluster will not work with an LT1, you will need a n LT1 Cluster. I think it will work with converters, but I'm not 100% sure there. I know that the gas gauge wont work at all because it is serial rather than resistance based.

My case is a little different than yours in that I have a whole LT1 donor car, so the swap is pretty straight forward, I don't even have to modify the body harness, just swap it over, but for you it is going to be more complex.

I've seen 5.3 LS motors for as low as $600 on craigs list, so 500-700 for an LT1 is the same price. In a choice between those two, I'd go with the 5.3 because of its potential.

Also keep in mind that you will not be able to just unbolt the T-56 from the LT-1 and bolt it directly onto an LS-1 when you upgrade, it will take a new mid plate, new input shaft, and a new bell housing. I've priced the conversion and its over $600, and thats using a used bell housing if you can get a hold of one.

I'm not trying to talk to you out of it, but think about this:


I have a whole LT1 Donor car.. but If there is an LS-1 T-56 available when I get money to buy I will ditch the LT1 motor in a heartbeat, sell it and do a 5.3. So if you are looking to do a full on swap anyway, the difference in price between an LT-1 Swap and a 5.3 LS Swap is pretty minor in cost compared to the benefits. Hell, you can pick up a 4.8 if you want to go budget and at least you'll already have the computer, wiring, mounting and fuel already set up for an LS motor just take some time, save up some bucks and add a better longblock/intake for your monster LSx setup.

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

I don't wanna go with a basic sbc build.. I've been there and done that and for the money yes its cheaper but u still get a good bang for ur buck with the lt1 I've seen lt1s with minor bolt ons take down ls1s with no problem.. and I like the idea of the better gas milage and driveablity from the lt1 to the sbc.. I'm not a big fan of carbs.. had to many issues.. and I would make it a tpi but then yet again there money for the block then the harness and tpis don't make the best power.. that's y they were replaced by the lt1 in the fbodys in 93

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

I've seen an older 90s transam at a house parked for a few months now. The guy also has a third gen camaro and a few other cars, I'm thinking about stopping in and talking with him and seeing if there is anything majorly wrong with the transam and possibly seeing if he would want to sell it or trade an f150 that I have.. who knows I might pick it up and there's my complete donor car.. its been sitting for a while and when I first saw it it was up on jackstands for a while so hopefully nothing is wrong with the motor

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

Now what is the visual difference between the lt1 vs the ls1 t56 transmission? So if I don't end up getting a donor car and have to piece it together I know what I'm buying.. I looked on ls1tech andon here but didn't really find much besides that its different

Falconiroc

The main visual difference is actually the bellhousing, but the midplate is different to accept the throw out bearing for the LSx,and the input shaft is longer for the LS1 T56

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

I'd keep it as a shell until you get back from wherever you'll be stationed. You will certainly have enough money saved up for a nice ls1 swap by then. And if you rush getting it drivable over the winter, you'll get to drive it what, a month or two at the most before leaving for the military? Its not worth it. It would be much more cost efficient to just be ok with not driving it until after you're home for good

91z28BlkNY

I'll let you finance my 383 stroker with what ever you can afford now and let you pay the rest off through 1 year period with 0%. Of course we'll right up a legit contract. Only trying to help. Its a good motor and I want it but have decided to do other things with my set up.

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

I don't want to keep it a shell because when I get back from basic ill only have maybe a month to get it ready to go before I have to move and I don't want to tow it. And ill have to pack all my stuff up and get ready to move ontop of having to put the motor in and trouble shoot..won't happen..and if I keep it a shell I know my wife would get pissy and make me get rid of it.. so I have made my decision to get a lt1 and t56 cheap and go ahead and put it in and while I'm away at basic ill start ordering my suspension parts from spoohn and bmr. And ill build my suspension the way I want it and get ready for the ls1 swap.. get all the body work done, which is a decient amount and when I'm ready and have the funds ill drop in the ls1

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

If you're worried about your wife not wanting a non-running eye sore around the house while you're gone, I've got a space in my garage next to the Z you could park it in while you're deployed.

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

thats a really nice offer and i might take u up on that..i like the idea of having my vert indoors for the months ill be gone. maybe u could give her a nice paint job while im away and of course ill pay u for it.. saw in ur dads camaro build that u might start doing it on the side. question is how would i get it there? ur a good distance away from jersey

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

thanks for the offer but 4500 for a worked 383 TPI motor is a lil outta my reach and for that kinda money i could build either my complete suspension or have my ls1 swap..

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

Just rent a uhaul trailer for a weekend trip. And I can let you use the space but since I posted that in my thread, I have since then got a full time job. I don't really have much time to fiddle around with my own car right now much less anyone elses haha

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

ok sounds good we will see how things work out between now and april 28th.. so ill be in touch, im still hoping to be able to get it running and moving under its own power before i leave tho..

keeslinger31

Why go ls1 when you can go lt1? I did it so anyone can. The lt1 can beat ls1 and vice versa but the lt1 is cheaper to put in and cheaper to mod with the same outcome... Uses sbc internals and sounds just like one (imo better than ls1) to each his own. No expensive swap parts just a crossmember for the t56 and if your not using a/c even easier or just corvette accessories. Its basically just a bolt in mod aside from wiring. I dont even want an ls1 i just want to build my lt1 up and never look back (at the ls1's in the mirror lol)

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

yea im looking at parts now as we speak.. im seeing that theres a huge price difference between the 2 motors.. i already have a brand new lt1 intake that i picked up a while back becuase of a good deal. so i can port that to lt4 specs and get a bigget thottle body later down the road im just looking to get my car back on the street for now..

cuisinartvette

If youve already had a 383 stroker (unless I read it wrong)youll be disappointed with the LT1 its close to the same thing short of the intake characteristic.

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

Why? Because it sounds like that's what he REALLY wants to do

And sure it's cheaper to mod an LT1, but you and I both know you get very different results between modding an LT1 and an LS1.

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

no he was offering me 383tpi for 4500.. which i saw run and is very nice just not what i wanna spend my money on, weither i paid it off over time or all up front..



yep very true ive been in an lt1 with full bolt ons and 3.73 gear and ive been in a ls1 with full bolt ons and stock rear and the ls1 took me for 1 hell of a ride, not that the lt1 didnt but the ls1 put my stomach in my chest.. man that was a fun day

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Clarification: You don't have to change the 3rd gen motor mounts. However, you can't use the LT1 motor mounts, so if you don't have the originals, you're going to need to find some to put on the LT1.

I think you've come to realize you also can't use the LT1 T56 on the LS1.

You should be able to find a complete Gen I engine and transmission that will get the car running again for less than a grand. Doubt you'll be able to do that with a LT1 & T56. At least you could drive the car to wherever you're going to be stationed (within the States, at least).

Of course, you could do the LT1 temporarily as well. There is a complete Roadmaster LT1, transmission, and PCM in Michigan on eBay for $200, needs a starter. Another in CT for $700. Another from a Caprice in New Jersey for $395. Since this is intended to be temporary install, why not jump on one of those and live with the auto tranny for the time being?

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

yes i knew about the mounts and ive seen the craigslist cars and ebay cars aswell and thats what im ganna do at this point.. inless i can find a t56 cheap im going to be putting in the 4l60e or 700r4 which i believe is also known as the 4l60? then time for body work.. i wanna tear the motor down and put new seals and gaskets in while its out.. my buddys got a set of long tube headers for me for cheap that he was ganna use but never got around to installing.. then all i would have to do is get a y pipe and i can finish up the rest of my exhaust myself and then just have it welded. i already have some 40 series flow masters.. and im thinking of an xpipe somehow.. if its one thing i must have with any motor temp or not its gatta sound good..

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

The 700R4 was upgraded in for 90-93 cars to the 4L60. Some small internal bits changed but pretty much everything interchanges with the older 700R4s

Id suggest using a truck/Bbody/Fbody 4L60E behind a LT1 instead of the 700R4/4L60. That way you dont have to micky mouse the TCC

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Of course, if you use anything other than an f-body 4L60E, you'll need the output shaft housing for the torque arm mount.

And, avoid 4WD transmissions...

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

mickey mouse the TCC ?? ok ive seen oplenty of them for sale and i figured as much aout the 4wd trans..

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

You have to use an external vacuum lockup switch. Its hard to get the 4th gear switch working without some sort of VSS-RPM gauge to go by and thats not easy without some sort of ECM

The cheaper kits are just a brake override switch, AKA the simple half of the system

I call them that because even with an inclusive kit, you still wont have NEAR the control a stock soggy shifting PWM 4L60E can provide let alone a simple tune upgrade

Luckily the only 4L60E that will bolt to the LT1 shares the same tailhousing flange as the 700R4's and 4L60's. Just swap your old one over

scrubbin627

My LT1 is pretty much fully built and Ive only got about $3000 in it. It would destroy a $3000 LS1

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

thats because a "good" 3000$ ls1 is pretty much stock

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

I don't want to make this into another thread like that SoCal TPI vs LS1 thread, but are you REALLY SURE you want to make that claim?

$600 iron 6.0L block
$300 LS6 intake
$300 camshaft
$600 valve springs/rockers
___________
$1800 = Over 400rwhp. Ask me how I know...


Keep in mind that these are the dollar amounts I could have spent on my engine alone and just tossed it in, but I replaced the pistons and rods with forged pieces, yet kept the stock cubic inches, and had the block gone over with a fine tooth comb, so my engine "build" was more like $5,000 including the purchase price of the engine originally. But had I thrown together the cam that I have, the intake I have, with the valvetrain that I have in a bone stock 6.0 without having it rebuilt, it would make no difference on the other things I purchased because they were bought to increase longevity (forged internals), not hp increases. And I'm at 420rwhp, cam only. Stock heads, stock (for a Camaro/Corvette) intake, stock throttle body, stock displacement. But in my theoretical pricing listed above, I still have $1,200 to spend on lots more horsepower.


I'm just sayin'.

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

fully built ls1s or in blues case ls2s will always beat fully built lt1.. its just a better motor... it has its pros and its cons as every motor does but when rubber hits the road its ganna have the better times..

scrubbin627

exactly

scrubbin627

Yep, IM REALLY REALLY SURE.

You will have wayy more than $1800 an LS1 to run with what ive built. Its not in the car yet so Im not going to start comparing it to built LS1's but youll be suprised.

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

I'm really not trying to be ignorant, but your defense is based on an engine that hasn't even been in a car and driven yet?

The only LT1 that I've raced and has been able to keep up with me so far is a good friend of mine's car, and it has extensively ported intake/heads, bored over, mid size cam, much better rear end gearing than I have, electric water pump, and the thing is gutted to high heaven. I'd say the weight difference between his car and mine is at least 600-700lbs.

scrubbin627

Ive had so many LT1 powered cars I know where it should be, my last car was running 7.90s with just a cam and drag radials. Talk about cheap, I had $100 in that cam on a stock 125k mile engine. Thats 7.90s in a 3600 pound car with a $800 engine?? Do that with an LS anything

Were talking about $$ differences between builds. Im saying $3000 on a LT1 builds you more motor than a $3000 LS1 simply because you cant hardly buy a stock on for 3k. My price includes buying the block, machine work, porting, etc....

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

...See my very first post in response to your claim.


Salvage yard 6.0 truck block + LS6 intake + camshaft = 400hp. I don't see where you're getting $3000 out of that.

scrubbin627

Im talking dollar for dollar building/modding/results. Not some used craigslist engine you find, throw a cam in and hope for the best, I mean building a good motor. If you want to put it like that you can find running LT1's for $400 throw in a $100 cam and youve got 370rwhp for $500.

lol I wouldnt do all that work and trust it. I agree though about the scrapyard 6.0, a very cheap way to score a better engine.

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

lets not let this get outta hand guys i didnt post this to start an ls1 vs lt1 fight.. i posted it to just have u guys help me decided on wiether or not to just put an lt1 in my car and wait to save for the ls1 later.. either way i do plan on putting an ls1 in a thirdgen.. wither i pick up another ttop and leave my very with the lt1 or i put the ls1 in the vert down the road either way im building an ls1 ive always wanted to and thats what im ganna do.. each motor has there pro and cons and costs.. lets not fight boys lol its not nice lol

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

ive actually found a wrecked 94 trans am with 75k on it for $600 with a full interior and everthing i need so yea im not only getting the motor trans and interior rearend with disks brakes and every other lil part that i want/ need but ill be able to make back almost all the money i send on the car by selling the left over body panels.. and what ever othere lil stuff there is.. im ganna put new gaskets on it and paint a few parts and clean it up and call it a day..