MitcherNeaf

Ok so I am sure this is somewhere on the boards but having issues finding it , I have a 92 camaro 3.1 right now which is really a POS wrecked twice 2 diff colors, interior ripped apart so not worth doing the work to do the LS1 swap into a pile of junk. So my question is what is the cheapest easiest way to get a 3rd gen LS1. My guess is by a nice bodied roller that had a 305/350 in it, or buy something that has the 305 in it, and swap over from there, anything with a 350 in it is over priced at this time, and probably will stay that way. Also just another quicky along with it, I want a 5 speed in it, does it matter if the original car was an auto or manual? Will it being an auto cause a significant amount of work that it should be avoided.
thanks
Mitch

ls six

Search search and search...

Besides that there are no 5 speeds that bolt to a 3rd gen block, it's either a 6 speed or an auto.

There are kits to bolt early trannies to an LSX but for the cost you might as well bolt in a 6 speed, the 5 wont live behind a healthy LSX anyway.

LS1 motors still hold a premium pricetag so cheap usualy means a truck motor. That also means an auto. NO a truck manual trans will not fit a car.

The truck manifold MIGHT fit under a 3rd gen hood and it's known to out torque and out power a stock LS1 mani.

Get the entire harness and ECU including the trans harness, you might have to get a 4L60E from a car in order to make the tail housing / torque arm situation work though you can use the Sphon kit to mount it to the X member instead.

Actualy mounting the motor and trans is covered in exacting detail on the forum.

MitcherNeaf

thankyou for the info, I read up on most of the info on getting the ls1 and the installation process, what I am wondering is, I haven't bought the car it's going into yet, I have the v6 but like I said is not worth the time or effort for a car that is pretty much destroyed.

So my question is just about what would allow for the smoothest transfer, a camaro with a 305 manual trans would be best car to start with? If I find a great deal on a camaro with an auto is it difficult to go to manual during the swap how much more additional work would that be than just putting in a better manual into an already manual car.
I just figure its cheaper to go with a 305 because they are not priced as high as going with a car with a 350 in it and upgrading to ls1 from there.
Also I could always go with a roller but how much additional work is that, I am sure there are quite a few additional parts need that could have just been swapped? Also does the year matter, is it easier to swap into a camaro that is 89 or newer or does it not matter?

thanks like I said I had searched around and read most of what is available about the actual swapping of the LS1, just want to know what car to get first.

ls six

Well except for the fact that no V6's came with rear discs (not all V8's did either) and that they tend to be basic as far as options theres no reason to buy a V8 over a 6 for the putpose of a swap.

The engine and trans will both be tossed and the mounts and trans X member will need to be built/bought.

If you do start with a V6 you'll have a drum rear end higher gearing and proabablky no LSD.

You may not get discs with a V8 anyway the factory LSD tends to go bad over the years and the gears can always be changed later.

The springs and sway bars optioned on many V8's are desireable but everything else will need to be replaced anyway and you will proabably choose to replace the factory hard parts anyway.

Converting to a manual is pretty simple and in the course of an LSX swap it's really a minor thing, A few holes and a pedal assembly.

Just get the cleanest straightest body you can regardless of the drivetrain.

I attempted to trade my rusty TA for a minty V6 last year just because I could more easily swap a motor trans and rear end then i could repair the rot.

Since my plans include a 4th gen rear swap a T56 if I can find one and either a 400 or LSX swap everything that made the V6 a V6 would be replaced anyway and I'd avoid the expense of rust repair.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The cheapest way would be to buy one that someone has already done.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Local guy here sold his, for $2500!

Not all the dash wiring was complete, as far as the gauges & such. But it run, drove & drove well.

Batass

The vortec 5.3 is an lsx motor and much cheaper. Around 300hp stock. Cam, tune, and exhaust and you'll be sitting around 400hp.

Putting an auto in would be easiest and cheapest also. T56 is the only practical manual option but twice the price of a 4l60e.

Headers are furiously expensive. The factory lsx headers are good but i don't think there are any that will work. Headers can cost more than the damn motor.

Honestly, its a good bit of work and hidden costs, and sounds like you might not understand what you're getting into. What if you have to pay someone to do the stuff you can't? Or what if it doesn't get finished?

Unless you are good at finding deals and can do EVERYTHING yourself, then its probably going to be cheaper to buy one already done.

andrew69_04

iTrader: (1)

im going to be selling mine as soon as we get the paint finished. just thought i would throw that out there if you happen to be interested in it.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

The factory LS1 exhaust manifolds fit, flow well & can be picked up cheap, from the guys who shelled out $$$ for headers.

One cheap way is to buy a complete LS1 car, pull everything you want & part out the rest of the car. Play your cards right & you can put $ in your pocket AND have a LSx 3rd gen.

1ADan

iTrader: (4)

cheap parts can be found if you have time. I've scoured ls1tech and my local craigslist for all the parts i've got so far. If you have the space and tools, buying a crashed 4th gen's a great way to lower overall cost (sell off all the parts you don't need and have all the little things you don't think of along the way). Getting a drop out (engine/trans/wiring/ecu) is one of the best options to do, as the little stuff really adds up quick.

Shift06

I wish I would've done that, but I didn't have the ki8nd of money needed to buy a whole car at the time.

1ADan

iTrader: (4)

you and me both; i just bought a motor and trans for $500. of course the motor was disassembled and was missing all the gaskets (big money on this motor), no wiring, no fuel parts, no sensors.

but i do finally have my own ls1 long block, so its a start

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

I highly recommend NOT buying a basket case engine to start with
Heck, a long block really isnt that great of a deal

Dropouts will be your best money as they are usually 95% compete or better. The only way to top that is a wrecked LS1 car and those usually are priced above running driving cars... for some reason

Try pricing out all the little parts and see how far that goes, even truck engines arent that great with all the extras needed to make them work: oil pan, intake, accessories, exhaust, starter, motor mounts, wiring updates etc

I bought my LS1 because it was $120 as a shortblock. Adding up the necessaries I decided it wasnt worth pursuing so I got a $200 5.3 long block. Now $1200 into that, the job is almost done and I havent even looked at performance parts

Shift06

Exact same thing for me, mine is almost totally complete now though lol.

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

Just because you get a truck motor doesn't mean you have to use an automatic with it. A T56 will bolt up to a truck motor just like it will a regular LS1. The only difference is in the early (1999-2000) 6.0L blocks from the trucks had a longer crankshaft that you can't use a T56 with it. You'd have to take the crank out and replace it with a crank from a newer 6.0, 5.3, 5.7, etc. Any Gen III crank will work with the block, it's just that ONE particular crankshaft from the 1999 and 2000 6.0's won't work with a T56.


And regaring the truck intake manifold, it won't work unless you have a huge cowl hood. Even then, I'm not sure how tall it would have to be, I'd say probably at least a 4" cowl hood and the scoop would have to start way out in the front of the hood to clear the truck intake manifolds. A regular LS1 manifold can be had for next to nothing, heck sometimes you can find them for free on LS1tech.com

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

Yea, I wouldn't recommend doing what I did

Unless you are wanting an engine that is brand spanking new inside out, just get a pullout motor. I went and bought a 6.0 out of a 2000 truck and didn't realize the cranks were different like I said in my above post, and wanted a T56. So I took the motor apart, put an LS2 crank in it, and then ended up finding that the pistons and rings were shot, so I did a 100% complete rebuild on it and now I've got about $4,800 in the longblock alone. That's not including the accessories I bought for it from an Fbody, the oil pan and intake. That's just the machine work, parts, and assembly of a stout longblock.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

LS2 is GEN IV

Is it 24x or 58x crank reluctor?

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Will a LQ9 throttle body fit a LS1 intake?

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

I can't remember, the new crank had the opposite reluctor wheel as the one from my block but I took the reluctor wheel off my stock crank for the block and had it switched over to the new crank.

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

Yep. Is your LQ9 throttle body a drive-by-wire, or cable? If it's drive by wire you'll need a harness and ECU to support that.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

How much longer is the crankshaft? Are you referring to the .400 difference, like if trying to put a TH350/TH400 behind a LS?

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

Yep, you can supposedly mount a 700R4 or older sbc style trans to the stock crank on a 1999 or 2000 6.0L LQ4.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Neither....I'm in the planning stages of a LQ4 or LQ9.

screeminchicken

iTrader: (2)

if ur going t56......suggestion getting a manul 3rd gen. so u dont have to mess with the pedels, console and locatio of the master cylinder

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Staying auto.

Due to an Permanent Disability, I can get from Point A to Point B driving a standard slowly, but I can't work the clutch pedal to shift & DRIVE a standard like it should be.

ls six

I didnt say the T56 wouldnt bolt up just pointing out that if price is a problem then it's not wise to have to source a bunch of parts from different sources.

If you want a T56 the cheapest route is to find/buy a 6 speed car and use everything you can from that car. Buying a truck motor then a T56 then a new intake then a new or modified harness then... etc will get expensive fast.

If you buy a truck swap then auto is the simple and cheap route, if you chose a non upullit type yard then they should be willing and able to exchange the truck trans (if it's 4wd or a 6 bolt tail housing) for a car unit for free.

I did some rudementary measurements and decided that the LSX truck manifold is about the same height as my stock TPI manifold, I can see a problem at the front of the manifold especialy in a bird but I suspect a modest cowl will clear it fine. I have been looking for pictures of a truck mani in a 3rd gen if you happen to know where any are. Everyone says they dont fit but no one seems to have tried it.

BTW thanks for reminding me about the 99-00 trucks I just ahppened to be eyeballing an all iron first year truck motor at the local yard. in the next year or so they'll be pouring into the non late model yards where I can get entire pulls for less than $500. Or replacement motors for just $120 Trannies are $45.

MitcherNeaf

so back to my original question
It doesn't matter what I start with, a v6 auto or a 305 manual, its going to be the same amount of work to put the ls1, I was undert the assumption that its easier to put an LS1 into something that already had either the 305 or 350 in it rather than a v6.
Also is it going to be easier to put an LS1 into a 3rd gen that is newer and fuel injected rather than carbed?
thanks

also if i choose to go the LT1 route due to cost will that effect the decision on what to start with.
Mitch

ls six

The LT1 will bolt up to your stock trans and I believe your motor mounts aswell.

The way I see it, everything that makes a V8 unique will be replaced anyway. At a certain point in the tear down you wouldnt be able to tell a V8 car from a V6 car.


Most cosmetic parts are as common on V6's as they are on the V8's so I believe the only thing you would be gaining with a V8 shell over a V6 is the performance springs and sway bars and the potential of a posi/disk rearend. Ofcoures not all V8's came with those anyway.

Just chose tha car you want and can afford.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Newer cars have more wiring in place that can be reused as well as the correct style fuel sender (pump has to go)

Carb cars need sender, lines and wiring updates

A drop in the bucket for the mount of work needed but something to consider

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

If you want a T56, I highly recommend getting a 5spd car, preferably a non-carb'd car just so you don't have to mess with the extra fuel delivery parts like Pocket said. With a TPI or TBI (I think) car, you really only need to change out the pump to something bigger and then the usual fuel line kit like anyone with an LS1 has to do and then you're set.

ls six

Good point pocket, correct me if I'm wrong but all year 3rd gens were equipped with EFI on the base 4 bangers right? I dont know about the V6's but at some point they were all EFI also, it was just the V8's that continued to come with carbs throughout the production run.

It's really just a regional thing but I would go for the newer cars just to avoid as much rust as possible, but I have never seen a local car with zero rust. Infact my former boss had a 300 mile 88 (I believe) TTAand as clean as it was the rockers were still rusty on the surface atleast.

MitcherNeaf

thanks alot guys that info helps alot.
Ill just try to find the nicest looking latest model year with 5 speed I can find. sounds great
thanks
MItch

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

I dont know if the dukes were TBI or carb. The majority of my experience with them is in Fieros and it went both ways depending on the year. 4cyl cars are rather uncommon so swaps into them are few and far between

IIRC V6 went EFI in 85 with no option of carb

V8 had carb 82-87 with some type of EFI available for the full run of 82-92. CFI 82-84, TPI 85-92, TBI 88-92

Rust is upkeep and usage. My 92 has 291,000 miles and before the winter in Ohio it was 100% rust free. Now the K-member and A-arms have surface rust from the salt. Super low mile cars have rust issues as they do ALOT of sitting. humidity does a number after so long in the same spot

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

No EFI in '84, either V6 or V8.

If you start with a later V6 5-speed car, you'll have the clutch in there already. And, since the LS1 is about the same weight as an iron V6, you'll have about the right ride height.

MitcherNeaf

Hey guys thanks alot that is great info, much appreciated.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

I wouldn't worry much about starting with a 5 speed car just because you may want to put a T56 into it. I converted my car from an auto to a 5 speed and it was a bolt-in except for the firewall cutout, the shifter cutout, and 10 minutes worth of wiring. Putting a T56 into an auto thirdgen chassis will be exactly the same effort.

MitcherNeaf

So focus on only finding a nice body, I figure a v6 auto like mine has to be cheap even if it has a great body as it is the least desirable camaro I could think of.
thanks
Mitch