irocnroll89

iTrader: (4)

I have been looking around ie; the search function and Google and found nothing on this. Has anyone thought to fit the WINDOW technology that is on the newer mustang? It drops the windows 1/4" when door opened then closes them after the door is closed. Seems to be a good idea being that with all the air "cupped" inside the car. I kinda have to slam the door with new seals. When I run the windows down, no issues....
Thoughts?

Banks4004

I think they do that to allow the window to seat in a groove in the upper window seal instead of just smashing against it. It seals better and is better for security. It wouldnt be too hard to design a circuit of sorts to do that but it wouldnt really be worth it without a new type of seal on the top of the window.

solaris_vii

iTrader: (3)

c6 corvettes have that too, you could get parts from that and not have to put ford crap on your thirdgen (pretty sure chevy did it first too)

padak

iTrader: (10)

^ Correct.. Also, Pontiac G6's do these for the same reason. The door wouldn't be able to close with the glass all the way up, so it goes down a little, then when closed tucks up inside a groove.

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

I always just leave my window cracked the slightest bit, takes care of the issue. But more power to you if you can figure out how to make something like that work in there!

visitor

Its a neat idea. Maybe it could be integrated with an alarm? Seems thatd be doable, as viper alarms (and im sure others) have window circuits

rusty vango

dosent our cars raise the hatch a lil to shut the doors as in stock?? seems I read this a while back

Brianbajnuth

Love the idea but how do we get it? Any one selling the module?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Seems to me the problem is our door latches. They don't have sensors in them. One would need to find similar door latches to, say, W or J bodies (I'd think J bodies because they have similar door handles). If the sensor can sense when the latch is operated and turn on the dome light, I'm sure they can provide a signal to a computer module that would run the window motors for, say, half a second. The pin switches in the door jams wouldn't work as they require the door to be opened a certain distance before anything happens.

:edit: This would also require some sort of body control module... At the very least, a programmable microcontroller and a couple of relays... Seems to me that the windows are a function of the BCM in newer cars.

sorrys70

it actually was mercedes benz that did it first. none the less merc is still better than ford

visitor

And Chevy.. And.. Pretty much everyone else.

I still think an alarm would be a good start.

Ace

iTrader: (2)

Ill be doing this but more complicated using a cts-v coupe setup with no door handles and switching latches.

There is a lot of modules that will roll up the windows automatically on a trigger and are current sensing, could use the door pin. Just need something that will pulse the windows down a second with the door pin opening. I'd say you can use the door pin as its just open and close your worried about, the position of the door would just have to be opened more then if there was a latch sensor.

The hatch doesn't open at all for the doors.

NowhereFast

Right here. It pops up a tiny bit from the pressure, but that is not intentional. On a T-top car like mine, even with them locked you can see the tops flex when I shut the door.

Dakota W.

BMWs also have the roll down and up feature.

irocnroll89

iTrader: (4)

Excellent. Good to see ideas flowing. I know my tops pop up a little when closing the doors. Slamming sucks.

camaroyoungster

instead of using a sensor in the latch, why don't you use that little push button switch that turns the dome light on and off. When you start opening up the door it pulls the glass down and when you close the door it pushes it back up.

Dakota W.

That switch is activated before the door even contacts the latch. It wouldn't work very well.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

I thought that the vent by the door latch relieves any air pressure when the door is shut.

I would want a BCM for the auto window down feature along with the radio/lights staying on after the key is removed.

SansKey

Alright, so this should be pretty easy to do. A microcontroller is not needed. A little ic called a 555 timer will work just fine.

Tell me if the following functional description is sufficient:
The windows are all the way up and the door is closed.
The door is opened.
The windows roll down ~0.25" (or ~0.5s).
The door is closed.
The windows roll up all the way.

Does that sound good?
Sensing when the door is opened (using the door switch) and then rolling down the windows for a certain period of time can easily be accomplished with a 555 timer circuit and some relays. Rolling the windows up would best be done using a current sensing circuit like those found in aftermarket window modules allowing you to roll the window up or down all the way with just a tap of the window switch. That current sensing circuit gets a little more complicated, but not crazy hard. If you don't always want the windows to go up all the way when the doors are closed, however, I think that rolling the windows up for 0.6s would do the trick.

Maverick is concerned about rolling the windows down before the door is opened. I don't see that as a concern since our cars were designed to be able to open and close the door with the windows all the way up. OP's original purpose for this was to alleviate the pressure build-up when the doors are closed and the windows are up. So, as I see it, the window just needs to be down before the door is closed.

What say y'all to these thoughts?

SansKey

Alright, so this should be pretty easy to do. A microcontroller is not needed. A little ic called a 555 timer will work just fine.

Tell me if the following functional description is sufficient:
The windows are all the way up and the door is closed.
The door is opened.
The windows roll down ~0.25" (or ~0.5s).
The door is closed.
The windows roll up all the way.

Does that sound good?
Sensing when the door is opened (using the door switch) and then rolling down the windows for a certain period of time can easily be accomplished with a 555 timer circuit and some relays. Rolling the windows up would best be done using a current sensing circuit like those found in aftermarket window modules allowing you to roll the window up or down all the way with just a tap of the window switch. That current sensing circuit gets a little more complicated, but not crazy hard. If you don't always want the windows to go up all the way when the doors are closed, however, I think that rolling the windows up for 0.6s would do the trick.

Maverick is concerned about rolling the windows down before the door is opened. I don't see that as a concern since our cars were designed to be able to open and close the door with the windows all the way up. OP's original purpose for this was to alleviate the pressure build-up when the doors are closed and the windows are up. So, as I see it, the window just needs to be down before the door is closed.

What say y'all to these thoughts?

Brianbajnuth

Soo I'm looking to do this on my 87 trans am. Can someone post the parts that I'll need to make this successful? Thanks

poorboy8

San that sounds like a good functional description from what I have read so far.

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

Someone throw this together in a kit and I'll buy cash right now! I've been thinking about doing this for 15 years but don't have the technical know-how.

Now if only we could make the windows go up and down faster like a normal car!

Alex

irocnroll89

iTrader: (4)

Sounds like a plan! I would not mind a prototype to try, as this idea of mine may prove very lucrative for you. ALA Homer Simpson----Patent pending, Patent pending, Patent pending.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

SansKey, you're missing the whole point of this. The windows don't just roll down that 3/16" to alleviate the pressure but also so the window clears the weatherstrip and such properly to prevent whatever damage could potentially occur. Again, you need a sensor IN THE DOOR LATCH so that whatever controller assembly you choose knows when the door is being opened. The door pin switch won't do it as the door is already opened a good couple of inches before the pin switch closes, so it's kind of on the late side and pointless as such. Even a small pushbutton mounted so that the door handle arm in the latch pushes it would suffice. And you would need a second switch so that the window doesn't go back up again while the door is open (again, in the latch). Or just one switch on the latch lever that holds the latch pawl in place when the door is shut, but either way, it would require some modification to the latch itself.

On the newer F-bodies, Vettes, and CTS coupes, the window doesn't activate until the door latch releases. If the door is locked, you can yank on the door handle all day and the windows won't budge. It's pretty much a pressure thing as nothing really happens to the windows and weatherstrip when the battery is dead (and obviously the windows can't roll down as such).

If it were me, I'd start looking into what latches from other GM cars have switches in them that activate when the handle is pulled (I already know Cavaliers and Grand Prixs have the dome light turn on when the handle is pulled even if the door is locked and the dome switch is turned to DOOR) as a starting point to see how they work. Either way, the latch is the key and not the pin switch.

SansKey

I see now, Maverick. Thanks for clearing it up.

I understand the vehicles that come from the factory have this feature because of the weatherstripping interference issue, but does the issue exist with thirdgens? I didn't have any problems with the window glass catching on the weatherstripping when I replaced my weatherstripping. The only issue I had/have is the air pressure requiring a lot of force to close the doors.

To build on your point, a little reed switch or even a magnetic switch might be able to be installed on the latch. It may not even be necessary to use a part from another car.

I'll do some work on the schematic in my free time and post my work as I go.

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

I've never had a weather stripping issue either but I suppose some might if their door glass isn't adjust to factory spec. First time I had a power window motor replaced the guy didn't re-align the glass right and it would pinch the weather stripping so I of course made him fix it.

Sure would be great not to have the slam the doors and fight the air pressure though!

I can't wait to see what you guys come up with!

Alex

Wife'sCar

iTrader: (1)

I skimmed through a lot of this thread but am understanding the point you are trying to make to people, but have a thought on a switch setup that might work.

Now how to program a computer to work with my idea I have no clue but here's a thought


Setup would need two micro switches or the like, waterproof momentary switches or something, if you pull the trim off of the inside around the lock switch and all that you can see a little rubber bump stop for the inside door handle, a small grounding switch could be mounted here, programmed to lower the window a bit when tripped, also mount a grounding switch or something similar near the latch that the door being shut could trigger.

After the two switches are mounted, program whatever computer or brain connected to these so when the inside lever switch is triggered the window lowers a hair but then stays there until the second switch near the door is triggered from shutting the door and raise it back up.

SansKey

Here is what I have so far.

This will turn on the Window Down relay for 0.242s when the door is opened and will turn on the Window Up relay for 0.242s when the door is closed. The time can be adjusted by changing the value of the 2.2K resistors. The time is roughly proportional to the resistance value.

I haven't tested it yet, but I will.

Additionally, this will work the same whether just the door pin is used or the more fancy 'switch in the door latch' method is used.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

How about using a couple of potentiometers in place of the 2.2k resistors? That way you could adjust the timing until it works the way you want it.

SansKey

Pot, rheostat. It's all good.

Agent13

iTrader: (6)

I wonder if the door latches from a Firebird with the digital dash option may be able to help in this situation.

acliad

iTrader: (1)

I just finished up a project doing exactly this and I found this thread after doing a search to see if anyone has done something similar. Here's a link to my thread with a bit of detail on my setup.

Maverick, I understand where you're coming from on this. For my immediate purpose, this wasn't the particular issue. Rather, my door shuts hard when the window is up due (I believe) to some damage that didn't get repaired before the paint. However, I plan on making a couple improvements and I'll definitely look in to this when I do.

82FirebirdTA, this sounds like a promising solution to the former problem. I don't know how those latches are set up, but I'm now gonna look in to it.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

That looks good, I may use that from you. The only "problem" i see with using the dome light switch is that when you close the door the switch opens well before the door is closed, so your circuit would close the window before the window is at the weather stripping. I think you would need a small delay for the close function before it starts.

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

Neither of those require a BCM. Just a couple modules that can be found in the junkyard.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

What modules? I thought there was just one body control module (BCM).

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

New stuff just has a complicated BCM, yes. But GM started incorporating those features on cars before BCM's were widely used, and they used things like express-down modules (small and mounted in the door usually) and simple little RAP (Retained Accessory Power) modules that kept power to accessories for 10 minutes or until a door was opened. I know a guy that has added all sorts of modern car features on his rides, without ever trying to adapt some kind of BCM that probably would need programmed somehow.

acliad

iTrader: (1)

That was actually on my list of things I wanted to do. Of course, the programming isn't an issue for me, but I didn't realize that there are already stand alone modules that would accomplish this for you. That's interesting.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

This would have been useful for me this morning, The weather stripping was frozen and the window closed on top of the lip of the strip, once the heater heater the car enough the window finally popped back into the channel

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

Yes, Interesting. Thanks for the info, that does make sense and I like that idea better. FWIW, there has been some write ups for the BCM's and it is a bit more complicated. I grabbed a BCM from a car I recently junked so that was free.

There is also a chip called the 555 timer that could be used, but that would require building an entire circuit. I'm sure that's a part of the 10 minute delay circuit.