chazman

iTrader: (4)

Who would be willing to put down a $200 deposit on a set of reproduction 245/50/16 Gatorbacks if you knew you could get them by 2023?

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I think people are going to want to know the total cost too.

3rdgenzroc

Size options would be a factor.

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

battmann

iTrader: (9)

Were gatorbacks the factory tire for all thirdgens or just the later models with 16” wheels? I have 15” N78 wheels on my ‘84 TA.

ksr

I don't place any importance on the tire brand for maintaining the originality of my GTA. Back in 1992 when I was replacing the tires on my '90 Formula for the first time, I shopped for a good deal and ended up with a set of Dunlops. I look for a combination of good tire and good price. I do the same today.

I like my GTA to look all-original, but I don't apply that to things that will always need to be replaced like tires or batteries.

Dens71TA

iTrader: (5)

No, a 1984 T/A with 15" wheels would have Goodyear Eagle GT tires in black wall or white letters.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I'd like to have a decent idea on how much a set of 4 would cost but 200 shouldn't be a issue if we knew for sure we could get them

okfoz

The size would be 245-50R16

$200 is not the problem, what is the problem is
What is the final cost going to be?
My issue is I just got new tires on my 89, which I would be using them, I hate for those tires to go to waste... If I buy now and store them, what will be the shelf life?

chazman

iTrader: (4)

As far as price goes, what are the 225/60/15 Garorbacks for the Mustang? $350 each? They wouldn't be cheaper than that.


Wow, looks like they've gone up! $425 each.

​​​​​​https://www.kelseytire.com/performan...gatorback-bsl/

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

and with the way things are going, will probably go up even more.
IMO, I dont see the repo Gatorbacks for our cars ever happening due to the cost and relatively small market overall.

gt4373

The 245/50/16 Would Probably Be Close To $500 Dollars Each So With Tax And Shipping Your In The $2000-3000 Range For A Set Of 4

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Even at that price, I know Mustang guys who are still waiting for them on back order.

ksr

Agree. Fewer and fewer companies don't even offer the 245-50-16 size anymore. Including Goodyear. How many owners really care about being "original" down to the tire tread, if you can call a repo Gatorback "original"?

chazman

iTrader: (4)

True. Wouldn't it be something if a new production Gatorback could be priced as the "go to" tire for our cars?

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Yes, for the 16" wheels cars.

In '91-'92 F41 suspension cars with 16" wheels didn't have them.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

There was a time, but those days are gone: larger wheels, big brakes, etc. Not downsizing simply for Gatorbacks.

But even when I was interested, it wasn't for "originality." Originality only happens once. After that, it's over.

Repro parts are simply for appearance, and that was my only interest. I think the Gatorback tread was simply the best-looking ever produced, even today.

But now I want more. Larger sizes. A rim protector. Flatter sidewalls. Basically a modern tire with the Gatorback tread pattern. THAT I would buy. But it will never happen, and I don't pretend to believe it might.

Goodyear came close with a 17" tire "for Mustangs." Would've looked great on 3rdgens with 17" wheels. But Goodyear tires come with Goodyear price tags, which doesn't go over well with the vast majority of 3rdgen owners, whereas, Mustang owners will pony-up the dough (pun intended).

And that's why we are where we are today, with sizes for Mustangs, but nothing for 3rdgens, not even considered for 3rdgens.

Regarding the 15" question, the Eagle GT 215/65-15 with white outline letters, which I think is available in reproduction, was the standard tire. The Eagle GT 235/60-15 black sidewall was an optional tire. However, if you want a Gatorback, that 225/60-15 "for Mustangs" would be a good fit, and it would be my choice for the rare, later-style 15" IROC wheels.

ksr

Were Gatorbacks considered good tires in their day? It's been so long, I really don't remember anymore.

I was happy with them on my '90 Formula back then, although I think I was happiest that I got something like 55,000 miles on them, which seemed great. I would have bought a replacement set, but at that time Dunlop was a better deal (they always seem very expensive now). After the Dunlops on that car came BF Goodrich (which I have on my GTA now), then Firehawks.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Notwithstanding some people's negative comments on them, they were considered one of the highest performance tires of the day. They were on everything from 3rd gens, Corvettes and GNXs to BMW and Ferraris.

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

Ill just buy the best for the z28. I only put about 600 miles a year on it.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

chazman, deposits are the least of people's concerns right now. What people want to know is schedule, minimum order quantity, cost, and lead time to delivery after payment. You don't know any of that, so you're not ready to have this conversion.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

A 245/50-16 tire has a small market and it's all aftermarket, no OE. Off the top of my head I can't even think of another type of car that uses that size tire.... can you?

This tire already went through all phases of life cycle management from current production, to aftermarket, to end of life, to obsolete. I don't know how Goodyear operates but that has the hallmark of a company that makes OPACC driven decisions. In other words, they diverted resources to other projects that were more profitable.

I am an engineer with 1,000 parts in my design control and I have never seen a Tier 1 supplier bring an obsolete part back into production. They look forward, they don't look back, because that's where the money is.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Very true.

We would work off these assumptions.

1) Delivery by end of 2023.

2) Cost to consumer comparable to the 225/60/15 Gatorback.

ev305tpi

iTrader: (3)

I'd sign up for 2 sets of ZR's and one set of VR regardless of final total (assuming it's within the ballpark of the mustang ones). My cars deserve them and i'm willing to pay up for them.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

My boss doesn't let me make assumptions when I ask to spend his money. What I meant is get the facts.

ev305tpi

iTrader: (3)

Like any engineering / manufacturing project, in order to get a proposal from Hawks, there needs to be the interest in the project to take it to the design and prototype phases. That info will come. I do this for a living. Business case, market requirements, licensing, etc all need to be done before any accurate pricing can come out. Just looking for sufficient interest in the thread to get a project proposal started.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Tell your boss, that this is a thread where we are having a theoretical discussion. No money will change hands until facts are disseminated.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Exactly.

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

So what do you think the numbers will need to be for something like this? IMO, they would need interest in the project from not just a couple dozen, a few hundred or even one thousand.
I would guess it would require maybe tens of thousands in interest before someone would consider bringing a project of this magnitude to market? I'd like to hear your thoughts as you are a professional in these matters.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I also see this as a different opportunity. As manufacturers abandon the 245/50/16 size, this could be marketed as the "go to" tire for people still looking for that size - IF it could be delivered at a certain price point.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Hawks doesn't have the pockets to fund this. Goodyear funds their own market studies, and will make their own decision whether to enter the market. If it does happen, then all Hawks does is make orders and sell stuff. That's it. There is no worthwhile discussion until ready to take orders. You'll probably buy it from Tire Rack anyway.

You see, that's the joke in all this... None of us have anything to do with the conversation. chazman is waaaaay out of his lane and doesn't realize it yet.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

But at least your boss is not my boss. My boss is the coolest and smartest guy on the plane - and a stud!!

The thinking here is, not for Hawks to take over this project. This is strictly a Kelsey Tire thing. They own the exclusive on Goodyear reproductions. I'm not even sure Goodyear gives 2 $h!ts about it , one way or the other. In fact I know they don't. It's all about what John Kelsey says. But they've been dragging their feet for 11 years due to the cost of the 16" mold, apparently. Hawk's is connected to the 3rd gen community. Kelsey really isn't, beyond wanting some of our original Gatorbacks to use as models.

Perhaps an opportunity exists to partner on a project.

JT

iTrader: (1)

Chazman is trying to do something that's not just for this community, but anyone who owns a ThirdGen who wants better parts. I don't think he is doing this as a job. Let's all try to help support him as it benefits all of us.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Ohhhhhh, I see now.... theoretical. Got it. So it is a complete waste of time then.

I didn't say it in the other thread, but I'll say it here. Bruce will regret the day he ever gave somebody outside his company the idea they could act as a voice for his brand. I don't know if he really did or you just took the idea way too far in your own head.

I think Bruce needs to reign this back. Work with you in secret to review products, maybe some other people that you can help network with. I have no doubt you could be helpful with that, but do it all outside the public view. Bruce needs to control the message. And it is not wise to let the public see product development.... it can be messy with problems, cost changes, schedule changes. It's not something you ever let the public see if you want to inspire confidence in your brand. It's also not wise to let your competition know what you're working on.

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

Problem is third gen F body enthusiasts are but a pimple on an elephants as* in the overall grand scheme of the collector car hobby - even if you include other collector cars with 16" wheels that would want these,
it's still too small of a market, AND a LOT of guys want bigger diameter wheels and/or wider tires.....IMO, it's just too small of a niche market for Kelsey to consider doing this, which is probably why we have not seen them yet, and never will

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Is that public information? Found in a press release by Kelsey Tire? I think JT will understand why I'm asking.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

No secrets. We know what Gatorbacks look like, I have my originals in the attic. We know what reproduction Gatorbacks are like, I see them on my friends' Mustangs.

Maybe you should speak to Bruce instead of trying to speak for him here. Are you his attorney or something?

Will anything come of this? Hell if I know, but this is exactly the place we should be discussing it.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Yes, it has been revealed that various people spoke to Bruce about this at Carlisle. Public info. Is it something that Bruce wants to pursue? That's still undecided.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

That doesn't meet the criteria of what is considered public info. It might be confidential, and you got what is called insider information. Best to ignore it and not repeat it. Can even wipe it from this thread and kill my related posts if you want.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Come on! Stop being so cloak and dagger. You need to go police up the several dozen 3rd gen pages on FB this was already discussed on.

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

I answered no.

I have my car only and specifically because I enjoy driving it. Since I can't see the tires from the driver's seat, and since the tires on it now perform adequately for my use, I have no need in changing them based on looks alone....

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

No, it's just that you don't understand. I'm not the best at written inter personal skills, I know I can be so blunt that it can be offensive, and I apologize up front for my internet personality -- but the message is on point.

Anyway, I'll give you rest from my comments. One of my good traits is I don't tend to repeat things incessantly.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Honest truth, I actually have a co-worker that was a bull rider into his 40's and wears his belt buckle and snake skin boots to work and drives an L98 IROC. We're the only two with 3rd gens and he's widely considered to be the cool one. I mean you work next to people like that and ****, there's nothing you can do, you'll always be the nerd.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I can guarandamntee you that the cool guy with the IROC and snake skin boots, wants himself a set of Gatorbacks.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

LOL! I'm pretty sure you're right about that. He'll probably end up in the magazine ad too.

You can tell the Mustang owners our tires are wider and we got that guy.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Oh look, it's this topic again.

Stuart S

All I know is that Kelsey has had a pair of my tires since May/June of 2013 and we’re still hoping for something that they have no realistic goal of producing.

Also, for what it’s worth, their 255/60/15 Goodyear Eagle GT tires that were $390/each in 2020 are $515/each today. Ludicrous.

To answer your question specifically, no, a $200 deposit would not be the issue here... everything else is.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Just watched this last night. He actually has a Gatorback on display on Goodyear stand. Cool video, BTW.

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