Ulukslo

I have a very close friend that has a car he obtained from Barkly Pontiac GMC in 1992. It is a red unbadged automatic L98 11,000 mile Pontiac Firebird. A doctor ordered this car as a Firehawk and backed out of buying the car. The car had been sent to SLP to be converted to a Hawk and the dealership decided to cancel the Firehawk upgrades. Im not sure how to determine if this car is one of those two 92 cars that this happened to. So I came here looking for info. He sent me pics of the RPO codes this evening. I really think this is gonna be one of those two cars that were canceled. Please let me know what info yall need to determine this. Thanks in advance.

Ulukslo

JT

iTrader: (1)

I believe that is the Firehawk known as #18, which was cancelled, built on 2/14/92

I don't know how much more info I have on it, but perhaps a few other knowledgeable members do and can add more.

Ulukslo

Awesome thanks for your response. From what I see the #18 car showed a valid VIN. Car #23 shows invalid. It also says that #23 is believed to be Black. I just am not sure how to pinpoint this exact car. Maybe someone will know!

Ulukslo

Im gonna do like everyone else and say it…..What is this car gonna be worth? I know and understand the desirability and rarity are two different things. Once its pinpointed as one of the two canceled HAWKS I would think it would be kind of a big deal. Im being partial though.

JT

iTrader: (1)

It is known that #18 had a Van Nuys build day of 2/14/92, which is the same build date of your VIN. So that tells me there's a very good likelihood it's the same car.

What type of information are you looking for? It has the B4U code. If the VIN of the SPID sticker matches the VIN on the car, it would appear to be legitimate. Keep in mind GM dropped the VIN tags that was on the body panels, which was previously done for theft reasons, so that leaves the usual VIN places.

battmann

iTrader: (9)

Why would this car be worth more than a regular low mileage Bird?
it didn’t receive the Firehawk treatment so all it has is a cool story & low miles.

Ulukslo

I assumed because it was one of two cars. Its very rare if its really #18. Sure the add ons could or would make it more desirable to most. I mean at this point Im looking at the low miles and the one owner and the fact that its no paint work and no fade from sun. I guess I could be wrong on the value but I thought it would be worth more than a regular bird.

jkris53406

iTrader: (5)

Well, this is also a 1LE car as well, so pretty rare to begin with. Is he planning on selling? Do you have any pics of the car?

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

I am going to be very blunt here... how the heck can the car have added value because it was ALMOST a Firehawk? This isn't playing with hand grenades or horse shoes here.

Now don't get me wrong, it's a very desirable car for many other reasons, but it's not "one of the Firehawk cars".

Ulukslo

Your bluntness is not gonna hurt my feelings so feel free. Im a big boy. Ima say it again. The car is as rare as they come. I mean a sticker under the door and a Manual trans and a number plate aint changing much in value here I wouldnt think. The main reason for my creating the thread is to highlight the fact that I have found (I believe) one of the missing Firehawk cars on the list. They are almost ALL accounted for except for this one and maybe 1 other one. To enthusiast I just kind of thought this would be a big deal. I mean Ive seen post where guys are trying to own a picture of all 27 cars. Well heres #18 on the list possibly. Whether its their favorite one Im not real concerned but its on the list of only 27 cars and nobody has seen or even knew where it was.

Ulukslo

Im doubting he sells the car. He doesn’t need the money and it was a gift from his late father. Lots of sentimental value on this one. Ive looked at the car before but never put together in my mind that it was the missing unbuilt Firehawk #18. From what I can tell there were only 20 Hawks that were 1LE. I got that from another site so that may be old numbers. Yes Im getting pics of the car asap so you all can see it. Its stored safely out of the sunlight and elements so getting good pics may be difficult at the moment. 11,600 miles to be exact is what the OD reads.

Ulukslo

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

My '89 V6 was almost a Turbo Trans Am. That's why it's worth so much.

aliceempire

iTrader: (14)

The value of anything is whatever someone else pays for it. Since the owner isn't selling, it doesn’t matter.
I will note that if this is one of the 2 canceled Firehawks then it's a neat piece of history. They get talked about almost every time the Firehawk numbers come up. Since it was ordered and canceled, it made it's way to part of the story.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Truth.

Ulukslo

Dumb comparison.

Ulukslo

Im guessing if the car had a big value to it it could possibly matter. I said I doubted that he would sell it but Im not 100% sure if he would or would not. I guess it’s according to how much one would be willing to pay for it. The cool factor of it being one of two canceled is pretty awesome in my eyes. I did go over the RPO codes in the car and on the #18 car and they are exactly the same. Im more confident now that this is #18.

Airwolfe

iTrader: (1)

This car has cool story factor. It is a car built by Pontiac to SLP specs (B4U) to become a SLP Firehawk that never happened. It's still a factory debadged Firebird Formula L98 1LE/G92 car with C60 air conditioning. Not many 1LE/C60 cars running around.

JT

iTrader: (1)

The fact that this car has the GM RPO code but not the equipment, and likely paperwork to support the car was sold without the upgrade, is unusual. The cars that may have gotten out of the factory with the wrong equipment against the RPO are not visible or documented like this. Those in the know will know this car and its place in the group. It is unusual and has a story and some put value on that and not just performance.

I would think any added value would not be significant and other factors of the car (condition,mileage, options that the car does have) are likely much more part of the car's value.

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

Ok, putting it that way, I can see the importance beyond an interesting story. I definitely do agree with your last statement too.

Ulukslo

Have any of you ever laid eyes on or seen a pic of the Black car like this one? I know this red car has no pics floating around public forums but I wasnt sure about the black one.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Sadly, if you venture as far as even getting off this particular subforum of TGO, you'll find people generally aren't all that interested in the cars that actually became Firehawks, much less one that never got the upgrades.


I'd consider the story and documentation to be a nice bonus to collecting the car, but I can't see it adding value.

Ulukslo

Well I made ONE only ONE phone call to an enthusiast. I have to say I do believe your wrong.

LeonardS

It seems that you are very interested in the car and the story, so it’s probably worth more to you than most other people. You should go ahead and buy it, so you can enjoy owning it. Good luck and hopefully you can buy it reasonably.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Yeah, you're not alone. Everyone who comes here and thinks they've found the next big Barret-Jackson thing in a suspicious RPO code, tends to think everyone on the forum is wrong. You might be on to something... but it's probably nothing. It'd take the right person to get very excited about almost being a Firehawk. You might be that person, the only person, that thinks it's fantastic.

I think you've found interesting trivia, of the sort that would bore all but 1 in a million people. Sorry.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

According to info I have on vin 212795 (Robert Casey's book) , this is car #19 and it was converted.
I am checking other sources to be sure


Need more pictures

aliceempire

iTrader: (14)

I agree. What's it worth aside, it'd be great to have the story and pictures of the car shared.

Ulukslo

So give me a dollar amount on what you think the car is worth with 11,600 miles in mint condition. Your opinion!

JT

iTrader: (1)

The GM dates don't match for #19, but do for #18.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

And that's why I'm asking a few others about it. I'm betting the info in the book has been mixed up somehow

JT

iTrader: (1)

I didn't know they were in the book, it could go either way.

This shows it number #18, based on the dates:
http://www.firehawkregistry.com/car/6877.html

There are a few that don't match the book, but others do.

Ulukslo

I wonder if the book could be wrong!? Im understanding that #19 has an owner and its a converted Firehawk. This car is not a Firehawk. Never has been converted. So Im sticking with JTs assessment of it being #18. This is a one owner car. It was ordered by a doctor through a dealer. Sent to SLP. Doctor then backed out of buying it and the local dealer canceled the SLP build. Brought the car to dealership and my buddys dad bought it for him. In late February of 1992.

PaulyC

Look at it this way, its got the elusive Firehawk delete option!

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Confirmed it 100% today, the book has a couple VIN numbers swapped. This car is indeed #18.

JT

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the research, Tony.

If you have extra information to make corrections to the book, would you post them?

Ulukslo

THIS is great stuff!!! Thank y'all so much for helping!! Keep the info coming. As a 16 year old kid working at a gas station there was a local man named Bob Bolen that had a true 92 Firehawk. That got me to loving the cars. Would love to know where his car went.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I'd say it's worth exactly the same as any other 92 Formula with the same miles, and same options, but without B4U on the SPID. It's a code for an option the car doesn't have, thus there's no increase in value.

alan91z28

I also generally agree with this... however if it was a Formula I was interested in I likely would be willing to pay some increase just due to the story and other documentation. However since I love t-tops as a general rule for me and this Formula in the end is not a Firehawk I would likely not be interested in it in the first place. i think it is like what every else is trying to say, right buyer might pay something more but in general it is a very nice Formula

vinny R

Would be nice to see pics of this car. Cool story, but when all I see is a pic of the RPO, speedometer and a blurry "performance suspension" its hard to get excited about this, just my opinion. I know you said it was hard to access the car, but someone got these pics you posted? INMHO without pics of this car does this thread really exist or should it be "canceled"!

Ulukslo

Geez what a cry baby. Are we adults here or just a sissy. Get some patience or if you wanna get it deleted then do so. I mean hopefully your joking but if not….delete the thread. I really expected MORE from an adult on the rarest numbered Firehawk that you had zero clue even existed. Grow up.

Big&BadGTA

iTrader: (1)

This ^^^^. +1


I know of a couple of RPO B2K Corvettes which were never converted. They, as non-converted cars, got all the "prep" on the assembly line, but nothing from Old Lyme. An 88 and a 90 come to mind, as examples. Neat cars, but nothing spectacular.

Same could be said for the unconverted 1989 Corvette Challenge cars. RPO cars for a race series, but never got the gear. What are they worth? Market shows, same as any other nice 1989 manual car.

Ulukslo

Thanks for your opinion! The car is not for sale though so we probably will never know. I do however know for a fact it will bring way more than a normal Formula like it. Therefore it’s definitely worth more than a nice low miles Formula. I do know this. My buddy owns an 11,000 mile Pontiac thats listed as a Firehawk and a 1LE car. Not many on here even have a car thats on the Firehawk list. Probably also the ONLY 1LE RPO car thats not a Firehawk like yall say and has an AC. Theres a thousand ways to look at it if I wanted to be picky about it and break it down but the car is gonna get some good insurance and some TLC and Ill get yall some good pics that zero of you have. Thats 100% a fact.

vinny R

Thank you sir... I respect your OPINION of me and as well I have one for you but I will be a GROWN UP and keep it to myself.

Che70velle

You came here asking for the forum members to value the car, which is impossible without lots of detailed pics. So I ask you, what do you think it’s worth? Honest question.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

This thread has so much potential to hit "clay bar residue" levels of epic absurdity. OP is so sure about hypothetical outcomes, that it would take very little for this thread to blow up. I'm calling it, I predict total thread implosion (self-immolation) within 7 days.

Ulukslo

Maybe you should reread the title of the thread. I never came here to get the value of the car. I came here to get help identifying the car. To see if it was truly car #18. Thats been done thanks to JT and a couple others. The value of the car is in the eye of the beholder. I can assure you 18k$ Would be a joke for this car. With it being as rare as it is. It does not however matter how much you or anyone else thinks its worth since its NOT gonna be for sale. I do already know its not just a clean Formula 350 though. Thanks to several real Firehawk owners. Not just guys that don't care about the history of the car. Remember this is not the only place for information and or enthusiastic Pontiac owners. If you just want my opinion of its value in dollars I would say to the right person upwards of 45+k$. Agree or not. Ive seen the car. I know its history. I now know its real history and know its not a regular Formula.

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

Its a regular formula. Without detailed pics, I am guessing $25k max

Ulukslo

Thanks for your opinion! Show me another 1LE Formula with AC. Glad your opinion isnt the fact of facts. I do appreciate it tho.

Ulukslo

Are there any actual Third Gen Firehawk owners on here?