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History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
Looking for opinions on whether to trash the origional spoiler (cracked/separating) and go hawks route. 89 formy 350 ttops 45k miles with origional paint. Kinda torn. Want to keep it origional, but if I show it...it shows. Where do you draw the line?
Thanks. I agree no 4th gen. And I'm leaning towards the 95% right is better just cuz this is not going to be a high dollar car. But...its only origional once. Hence seeking opinions. Thanks for yours.
What do you prefer? That's all that matters. If it's going to bug you that the original is falling apart, or that it scores poorly at car shows because it's falling apart, then replace it. Personally I'd look at alternatives to Hawks, but that's another topic. Seems there have been other sources for reproductions, but I haven't looked recently.
I'd prefer it to look like the rest of the car...😉 in all seriousness I feel like I don't many options. If you know of other options I'd love to hear about them. PM me. I appreciate the response.
I used the fiberglass one from Hawks. The fit and finish was great and once installed you can not tell the difference from the original. Hope this helps.
I would not hesitate to go that route.
I wish the fiberglass ones didn't look like crap. They are close, but the thin parts near the leading edges are too far off for my taste. Anyone modify or shape better to look right?
I used the fiberglass one from Hawks. The fit and finish was great and once installed you can not tell the difference from the original. Hope this helps.
I would not hesitate to go that route.
Did they change their design? If so, I might have to buy one now. The ones I've seen are not even close to original looking, unless you are looking at it from down the street. It's literally the first thing I notice that's wrong on one of these cars at a show.
Here are some pics of the spoiler on my car in the above thread. I picked mine up in 2013.
You can decide for yourself if you like it. I think they are a big improvement over the factory design. I had two split factory originals for reference that I tried to repair.
Much lighter than the original too, saves on lift supports and the hatch pops right up. I think GM learned their lesson which if why they changed the design in 91 to all fiberglass.
Plus you do not need to add a flex additive to the paint. How many have you seen with cracked / split paint on the rear top surface? I remember seeing a lot over the years.
For what these cars are or will ever be? It is not worth sweating the original / non original debate.
I mean, if there were two on the market, one 100% original shape, one 90+% of original shape, with no other differences, then I'd go with the 100%.
But that's not the world we live in right now. If my options TODAY are driving with my decaying original, paying obscene money for an NOS part which will fail the same way over time, or buying this repro, I'll take the repro every time. Hell, I'd do it for the weight savings alone.
Here are some pics of the spoiler on my car in the above thread. I picked mine up in 2013.
You can decide for yourself if you like it. I think they are a big improvement over the factory design. I had two split factory originals for reference that I tried to repair.
Much lighter than the original too, saves on lift supports and the hatch pops right up. I think GM learned their lesson which if why they changed the design in 91 to all fiberglass.
Plus you do not need to add a flex additive to the paint. How many have you seen with cracked / split paint on the rear top surface? I remember seeing a lot over the years.
For what these cars are or will ever be? It is not worth sweating the original / non original debate.
Agreed in principle, but still looks different at the tips of the spears. Also looks thicker overall
ive got a glass one,they weigh maybe 2 pounds and do not have unfinished metal inside that rots like every single original one to date. this is the glass wing i have sitting in my basement,looks great,weighs nothing and will never rot.i have no idea were the original owner got it from.i paid $850 for this entire car,sold a few bits and have everything i could ever want spare(for a total cost of about $250)including engine,trans,interior,rear end,wiring,etc etc etc etc etc.
I try to keep my 86 TA as stock as possible, or atleast as stock with the modifications it had when my family purchased it as the second owners in 1991. That being said, I too am having the splitting issue and was debating switching to fiberglass. I opted to try and fix the original rubber one. I pulled it off, removed the rust, used “flex glue” to fill the crack, waited for it to harden for a week and then used JB weld plastic to cover it and keep out moisture. I’ll post one pic of the flex clue and I’ll post more tomorrow. My plan now is to sand down the JB weld and then spray a light layer of black “flex seal” over it and call it a day. Then I will use the same method to set a screw into the corners and bolt it down to the hatch. Gotta find the 6 plastic clips for the moulding cause those are broke and that should do it. It might still split in other places later but to me it’s worth it if I can save the original. Hope this helped! Btw, anyone got a link for the plastic clips? I have the part number.
My 89 still has the spits in the spoiler. I looked into the replacement about 5 years ago & never pulled the trigger. Car is all orignal otherwise & there is something to that for me. The splits are not bad, but it is a little wavy on the sides, so for sure rusting & swelling in the usual places. I am not sure GM knew about what would happen to these. No doubt they used an untreated steel in side & the rust just crept up & in over the years. I owned an 87 until 1992 & it had no issues. I don't recall seeing them split until many years down the road. If they would have made the fastening area with some sort of high impact plastic or maybe treated steel this would not have happened, or maybe only happened to the cars left in fields & salvage yards. kinda sad.
However GM has not stopped that practice to this day. they are still stamping out steel parts & body panels with inferior corrosion protection to save money & GM wants them to last 6 years & after that, they could care less. Sell More new cars! But when the new diesel trucks can cost well over 70K I expect them to last more than 6 years. If there was an option in the order list for better corrosion resistant treated panels, I would check that box every time.
Sorry, went off on a tangent, but you can bet that bracket in the spoilers was just a plain ol piece of carbon steel & we all know where the water runs to on the rear glass. Might have been a 3rd party company making them for GM and it was a cost savings?
Also, is anybody willing to show the detail fitment pictures of the aftermarket spoiler?
Basically a close up of everywhere the spoiler meets the body & glass?
That would be a huge help for others I think. Maybe thats in the other thread that was mentioned & I missed it.
Sorry if it is.
The fiberglass spoiler isn't perfect but lightyears lighter and better than the old rotten ones. The thicker spears are the only noticeable thing but I wouldn't trade for a NOS spoiler if I had the chance.,
I'd take a NOS one if it were not rusting yet and was stored properly, then promptly take it to a fiberglass guy I know and have it reproduced properly, sell it for 1/2 of what Hawks wants and sell thousands of them. I'd make it so good, that people would pull off Hawk's spoilers for it.
However, NOS ones are hard to find and I've been looking for awhile. If I do decide to buy one of these fiberglass jobs, it's not going on my car until I at least reshape the tips. That is by far the biggest issue I have with them. The factory tips remind me of a Samurai Sword and the fiberglass ones remind me of baseball bats.
I'd take a NOS one if it were not rusting yet and was stored properly, then promptly take it to a fiberglass guy I know and have it reproduced properly, sell it for 1/2 of what Hawks wants and sell thousands of them. I'd make it so good, that people would pull off Hawk's spoilers for it.
However, NOS ones are hard to find and I've been looking for awhile. If I do decide to buy one of these fiberglass jobs, it's not going on my car until I at least reshape the tips. That is by far the biggest issue I have with them. The factory tips remind me of a Samurai Sword and the fiberglass ones remind me of baseball bats.
NOS ones are rare because they used to be like $1300 when they were new. As much as I'd like to stay original, go glass and never look back! advantage a/m and that's hard for me to spit out but they wont split, save weight- kind of a no brainer IMO
my repo 91-92 aero style
I did find a shop that molds the 85-90 and they are a 100% exact copy of the original including the mounting locations and it uses the factory clips they say, but could only find mostly negative reviews on here (though they are all over 10 years old). I can only assume (since there are not that many) that these negative reviews are from novices who have zero experience with fiberglass finishing and fitment or maybe it was more work than they thought. At any rate, thinking about pulling the trigger on it since, let's face it, you cannot do better than an exact copy which is what I've been after. I want it to look 100% like the original spoiler and sorry to say, Hawk's is not even close. I've had my Formula next to a white 89 GTA that had a Hawk's last year and when you see them side by side, your jaw drops at how wrong Hawk's is. It's too fat, too tall, the curves are all wrong, the angle is wrong, and the tips look like they are off another spoiler entirely. I was ready to buy one until I saw it in person. I'm no stranger to fiberglass finishing, fitment and mounting, so I may go with this other company in the hopes that when it's done, it will look like it's factory even if it takes a little more work.
I am going to post two spoilers, actually 3... The first is The OER or the "Other company" The second is the OEM original spoiler that came on my car, and the third is the replacement Hawks spoiler...
NEITHER the Hawks or the other company are "perfect" but the Hawks is way way better looking, it might not be so apparent in the pictures, but when side by side it was night and day.
I believe this is the "OER" spoiler or whatever it is called. This is the Original factory spoiler... This is the Hawks Spoiler.
Definitely had some fitment issues with my Year-One repop but I'm happy with it. I've seen some Hawks spoilers on some nice cars myself that looked nice but was told they had some fitment issues as well.
Definitely had some fitment issues with my Year-One repop but I'm happy with it. I've seen some Hawks spoilers on some nice cars myself that looked nice but was told they had some fitment issues as well.
It is my understanding The problem with most aftermarket fiberglass parts is they are using a polyester spray blaster or they are using Mat to lay up the part halves and then glue the two parts together. Polyester is relatively unstable during the manufacturing process and it really makes a marginal part. It is easier to work with, and for most people it is just fine... It is also the reason why the spears are thicker on the fiberglass parts than the OE parts... IF they wanted to make a better part they would lay it up with fiberglass cloth or carbon fiber cloth and then they could have a part that appeared identical to the OE rubber part. Unfortunately the price would probably more than double.
However if they were to use a cloth or a weave fiberglass the parts would be much much better, this is why carbon fiber parts are so desired, because they make great parts IF they are made with good molds...
One of these days I am going to get off my *** and make the aero spoiler I actually have the mold for...
Kinda... It is actually more of a whale tail spoiler that the profile looks like the Factory 85-90 aero spoiler... from the side it looks factory, but once you get up on it you would see how different it is...
More or less imagine a solid spoiler that goes all the way to the glass,
I have had the molds now for at least 15 years, just never done anything with them... There is no prevision for an 87-90 CHSML, so I would have to figure that out too... I have had some ideas and I often forget about it...
It was a one off part, There was a company in Howell Michigan that used to make custom fiberglass parts for Porsche, several of the GTP race cars, and other projects. He did several side jobs like putting slant noses on Porshce 911's and such. One of his side jobs someone had an original Aero Spoiler from a 1985/1986 and wanted a custom job, so he made ONE back in the 80's I ended up with the mold for cheap, AND the original Black Aero Spoiler that is as perfect as I have ever seen EXCEPT there is about 1" missing from one of the tips, no bubbles no blisters no cracks, just the one tip missing.. I imagine someone could graft the tip back on from another spoiler and no one would know... I digress.
I have the original Buck that the mold was made from, interestingly it mounts using the factory base wing spoiler 4 bolt mounts, instead of the aero spoiler mounts
I have the mock up, I should throw it on a hatch and see how it looks, but never got that far...
The mold is made in such a way it could be used for a production tool, it is not cheaply made, but I really do not see a big desire for something like this so it was never that important to try and make one...
I figured if I ever needed another spoiler I would attempt to make it, but it has been a long time since I needed one, I never got to do it... One of these days maybe I will lay one up, put a Cadillac CHSML that goes all the way across like the Escelades and it would be pretty rockin'
I did find a shop that molds the 85-90 and they are a 100% exact copy of the original including the mounting locations and it uses the factory clips they say, but could only find mostly negative reviews on here (though they are all over 10 years old). I can only assume (since there are not that many) that these negative reviews are from novices who have zero experience with fiberglass finishing and fitment or maybe it was more work than they thought. At any rate, thinking about pulling the trigger on it since, let's face it, you cannot do better than an exact copy which is what I've been after. I want it to look 100% like the original spoiler and sorry to say, Hawk's is not even close. I've had my Formula next to a white 89 GTA that had a Hawk's last year and when you see them side by side, your jaw drops at how wrong Hawk's is. It's too fat, too tall, the curves are all wrong, the angle is wrong, and the tips look like they are off another spoiler entirely. I was ready to buy one until I saw it in person. I'm no stranger to fiberglass finishing, fitment and mounting, so I may go with this other company in the hopes that when it's done, it will look like it's factory even if it takes a little more work.
I'm not convinced an OEM one can be repaired while still looking right and last, good luck with that Joe. I've garage kept my car since 91 with it used only as a summer joy ride, even had it stored away for 12 years. It still rotted from the inside. I went with Hawks. I see the point of those who show their cars and are not happy with side by side comparisons but I'm just a "user" of my car and don't ever get it near another one to compare it to. I'm not real happy with the way the points are held in place but it works. I'm looking forward to getting paint on it my daughter driving it in the antique car show/parade in town this summer (never showed any car before). I'm willing to bet there will not be another bird with that spoiler on it at the show.
Last edited by F350-TT; 05-09-2020 at 09:36 AM.
Reason: typo
... The ones I've seen are not even close to original looking, unless you are looking at it from down the street. It's literally the first thing I notice that's wrong on one of these cars at a show.
This has always been my impression as well: the re-pop wings are not shaped like the originals. In additional to the thicker sides, the shape and camber of the inverted airfoil is just plain wrong compared to the original (and I may simply be more inclined to notice such things, being an aerospace engineer...).
The wing on my '89 Formula has endured pretty well -- only a few small splits at the very rear of the attach points, both of which have been repaired at least once before (one repair has held, then other has not). But the inaccurate shape of the replacements has been the single biggest reason I've not replaced mine.
The problem with the original Urethane spoiler is it rusts... The innards are made of steel and as it rusts it bulges the sides... I do not think there is a way around this, and repairing it will prolong it but they are destined to fail. My original spoiler on my 87 was perfect for bulges and cracks, then one winter, it was done, had a big split in it. It was stored inside, and rarely saw rain under my attention. It did sit outside before I bought it, but it did not show...
This has always been my impression as well: the re-pop wings are not shaped like the originals. In additional to the thicker sides, the shape and camber of the inverted airfoil is just plain wrong compared to the original (and I may simply be more inclined to notice such things, being an aerospace engineer...).
The wing on my '89 Formula has endured pretty well -- only a few small splits at the very rear of the attach points, both of which have been repaired at least once before (one repair has held, then other has not). But the inaccurate shape of the replacements has been the single biggest reason I've not replaced mine.
Good question. I would think in this day and age someone with the manufacturing capabilities could easily laser-scan an original wing and reproduce it pretty accurately using more durable materials. Geez, they could probably 3-D print one at this stage if they have the proper dimensions...
I figured if I ever needed another spoiler I would attempt to make it, but it has been a long time since I needed one, I never got to do it... One of these days maybe I will lay one up, put a Cadillac CHSML that goes all the way across like the Escelades and it would be pretty rockin'
Well, if you decide to try it, and need a helper, I'm just down the road.
Well, if you decide to try it, and need a helper, I'm just down the road.
Thanks for the offer, I will try to remember... T-top350 is the only other person to see it outside my family, his reaction was more or less "That is a quality piece that was definitely made by a pro."
There would be some things I would have to work out, for example the location of the mounting holes, It would be ideal to add locations for all of the possibilities. And the Center brake light... Like I mentioned, a solid LED that went all the way across like some of the Cadillacs I think would be sweet.
Still working on it, I’ll post pics of the repairs when they are done, but I found a place that sells those 6 plastic clips for the molding finally! Here’s the link, bought them on eBay and they came quickly! https://www.ebay.com/itm/123010329873
04-14-2020, 08:22 PM
