chazman

iTrader: (4)

Just from riding in the passenger seat, I can tell you that the trans was programmed more aggressively. Some say that the ECM also had a different tune for the motor too, but I can't verify that.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

I would imagine a corvette servo and maybe some more timing,hotter spark, etc.. Bet it was fun to drive!

ev305tpi

iTrader: (3)

I was told that one of mine ran 13.90s the one time it was run down the track and I have no reason not to believe it, my 1LE cars are pretty quick... much quicker than my '87 with the L98, all 3 are stock. Yes, before anyone chimes in, i'm fully aware of the mechanical changes and HP / TQ differences between each year.

To me, my 87 vs the 91/92 1LEs have a much different feel when I drive them back to back. Suspension is much softer feeling in the 87 than the 1LEs but nowhere near as tight to me. And the brake upgrade is awesome, people shouldn't discount it, it makes it stop like a more modern car... not something that was designed when I was born... I prefer the drive of the 1LE cars more.

So sure, they didn't put a bigger motor in them, but the 1LE was still considered a performance option, and no matter how you slice it the cars are relatively rare considering how many 3rd gens total were made from 1988 to 1992 percentage wise. Some people prefer to have the creature comforts, I couldn't care less. I personally like the 1LE cars more and I doubt i'm the only one I'll probably buy another one in the future if I can. Just my $0.02

scottmoyer

Did the B4C/1LE have AC that your friend owned? If you remove the AC and the brackets, pulleys, etc, you not only remove weight, but you have less drag on the engine. The serpentine belt has less to turn.

I also question the information posted about the manual trans having different gearing. I don't know one way or the other, but the SPID label for a manual 1LE has MK6 and MM5 listed. These are the same RPO codes used on all of the 88-92 manual cars. So, if a 1LE has a special trans, it should be coded in the "Service Parts Identification Label". If it's not noted there, a service department will replace it, if needed, with another MK6 MM5 trans right off the shelf.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

The MK6 in the 1LEs and the MK6 in the G92s are the same. The difference between the MK6 and the more common M39 T5 is 5th gear. MK6 had a .73 ratio and the M39 a .63 ratio.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Speed density L98 cars are simply faster than earlier L98s. There's a rated HP/TQ increase, GM documents explaining the dual cats unlocked a bunch more power, standard performance gear ratios, etc. In proper condition, under ideal conditions, they can break into the 13's stock. Might be pushing it with the LB9 of the same year, but I wouldn't say it's impossible.

As far as the 1LE debate... They command higher prices, and get attention because of a series of magazine articles, chapters of books, and constant internet hype back to the beginning. What stands out most in an article? Talking about a special back door code word, secret ordering techniques to trigger ALL the "performance options" that were only intended for the select few, sells magazines, books, and so forth. As far as what 1LE meant, and what it included, you can blame that again on some articles and websites that tried to list every part down to the part number. Sometimes they were wrong because they were talking about what they changed to bring an 84 Z28 they were building up to 1991 standards. The 1LE code only applies to the brakes.

If you consider all the hype, the 1LE cars reasonably can be expected to sell for more money. Line one up against the same car without 1LE, say a 91 Z28 L98 1LE vs 91 z28 L98, and they're probably going to perform about the same. The guy without 1LE will just be able to drive home in more comfortable seats, listening to the radio, in ice cold air conditioning.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

There are 2 different aluminum spares. (The unpainted spoked unit and the 1LE painted aluminum solid spare).

Yes, some cars got some of the 1LE goodies but when you combine them all in 1 car with a slight weight reduction (no AC)
You will get a small performance increase.
Now remember, the 1LE wasn't made for 1/4 mile performance, it was made to reduce brake fade on a road course. THAT is where they will outperform the stock cars.

KMK454

The nice thing about the 1LEs and the B4Cs is that if you get one, you know for sure you are getting all of the performance parts available at the time. The same cannot be said for a Z28 or IROC-Z, which could go from top performer to average if you forgot one or two key performance options.

And if you option a 1LE or B4C correctly (as in almost zero options), you'll end up with all the performance goodies in a very lightweight car.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

That may very well be true & I would be more than happy to line mine up against a regular L98 or even a LB9/MM5 on a drag strip or even a track day at a local road course. Although your last statement may be true with most of the 1LE's, it's not in my case as mine was ordered new by a female Delco executive with leather seating & the UN6 Cassette stereo.

As for the transmission, from my research, originally, GM equipped the World Class MK6 T5 transmissions with a 0.62:1 overdrive 5th gear. The gear was too tall and lacked torque for racing but insured fuel economy on the street. On the track, passing other cars, Mustangs in particular, was nearly impossible. So the steeper 0.74 gear ratio was placed into all the MK6 5 speed transmissions of 1LE vehicles. Although the MK6 was available in ALL G92 vehicles, the 0.74 final gear was ONLY available with the 1LE option.

I don't know if this sticker is on all MK6 transmissions but it's on the one in my car. If anyone has the tech bulletin's they may be able to look it up.




As for you Moyer - in the short time I've been active on this board, it's become apparent that nobody on this board more agressively ****s on these cars and third gen's in general than you. Although you may know a lot about them, and contribute to the board in a technical sense, you sure do make people think twice about posting!

With the 1LE option in 1989, Chevy's F-body swept the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) and International Motor Sports Association (IMSA) Showroom Stock series. Camaro's won every race in the SCCA Escort Endurance Championship, and captured the 'Car of the Year award in the IMSA's Firestone Firehawk series....winning continued from there. To minimize the impact of this option code and the research/expertise that went into it is a disservice to the hobby & an insult to this board.

Time2Fly

I believe the T5 installed in LB9 1LEs is specific to the 1LE. It has a 3 letter code of DKL which (to the best of my knowledge) has only been found on T5s installed in 1LE cars.

As far as the service bulletin found on the transmission, my 1LE has one as well. This is interesting stuff. I bet if you had access to the top of your T5, you would also find DKL printed on it as well as a DKL service sticker.

igotta355z28

iTrader: (1)

Ill back that, my 91 L98 1LE has gone 14.1 with 150k miles on it, 275lb driver an AC kit installed..... (got to have that AC in Texas even on 1LE cars ha) I bet new without ac and a slimmer driver she could crack the 13.0s just fine....

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

My 92 formula 305 5speed, non 1LE, R6P car has that orange sticker on the case.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I ran a stack of 14.4s and a 14.3 spinning off the line in my Non-1LE ~110k mile 5.7L 91 Formula. That was with everything on the car bone stock, down to the rattling busted up catalytic converter, cracked flywheel, etc. No cheats, street tires with 30psi, no ice on the intake or bumped timing. I know of another one time member of this forum that ran a bit faster than my time with a completely stock ~30k mile 91 GTA 5.7L Non-1LE. Guarantee with the right conditions (both track, and car) most 90-92 L98s are going to be in the bottom 14s and potentially the high 13s. I'd expect 89 L98 cars with good gearing, dual cats, etc to run the same times.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Oh, stuff it! Unless you've ever spent a few years as a moderator on this forum, you have no idea how annoying it gets to read all the misconceptions, and to be harassed regularly about what you know or don't know, and how so and so's brother's sister's cousin's uncle had the one 1986 IrocZ with a 350 and 1LE brakes and a 7 speed T5 transmission from the factory because it was ordered by his brother's sister's cousin's uncle's brother's sister's cousin's uncle, who was best friends with the best friend of the sales manager at the Buick dealer that was next store to the Chevy dealer.

There's ****ing on these cars, and then there's being realistic and somewhat jaded by EXPERIENCE. If you think Scott is bad, you should have been around 15 years ago when I moderated this board.

scottmoyer

BTW, my name is Scott and there's no need to disrespect me because you feel insulted and feel you need to defend your car. The 1LE is a brake upgrade. That's it. Is that something special? In a way, sure, but it isn't special enough to demand excessive dollar amounts, no. People keep praising the 1LE as a comparison to the old COPO cars, or an SD455, etc. They aren't. They had the same engine as the rest. Ok, I don't know about the trans enough to say if the MK6 for the 1LE was geared differently than all other MK6 cars, so I'll give you that only because I can't prove otherwise, but seriously? Putting the M39 trans gearing in the MK6 does not increase the value of the car one single bit.

Also, why do you say I **** on third gens more than anyone else? Maybe if you didn't read every post I make in a negative manner and try to argue with me over stupid stuff, you'll see that I've done more for these cars than anyone else. I've tried getting diecast companies to make 1:18 scale models, I've worked with manufacturers on getting replacement parts made, I've worked with magazine and book editors to get these cars in print, I've worked with people on getting tshirts made for TGO since so many people have asked for memorabilia, I worked with clubs and outsiders looking to represent the thirdgen and help to line them up with people form this board that can give them what they need. I've even assisted members with locating and inspecting their dream car when they couldn't do it. Even recently, I said I'll reach out to window-sticker.com to see if we can work with them on providing the most accurate window stickers we can for thirdgens. What have you done?

Maybe after you've been on this board for 15 years and had to deal with the number of whiny people that I've dealt with, the new posters that only want to know what the car is worth so they can sell it, and then the many people that ask what their car is worth because it's so rare, etc, then you can speak more intelligently. Until then, sit back and enjoy the board and stop being like the whiny people I mentioned above. Instead of trying to just receive information, try contributing. Thanks

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

Quoting for posterity.

I was wrong (Scott) Moyer, you are 100% correct. You are an invaluable resource for the hobby & for third gen's in particular. I personally would love to have a di-cast of your car and/or a t-shirt with it's image and thoroughly enjoyed the article about it in Hemmings. 1LE's are a misguided & careless collection of poor quality parts and are worthless as collectables. Hopefully some day I can hope to recoup my investment in mine.

Thank you for your patience with idiots & novice collectors such as myself. You are a asset to the community and on-point 100% of the time with value, rarity & collect-ability. I've completely misunderstood your tone as negative and condescending.

Keep up the good work!

scottmoyer

I've helped other people get their cars in magazines and books, not just mine. Hemmings is currently in contact with others on this board regarding their cars because I gave them the contact information with the hopes that their cars can be published. I also helped five other people get their cars in the book, Standard Catalog of Camaro. I've written to the editors of other magazines to correct their statements that 3rd gens are the black sheep of Fbody's. Have you?

As for the tshirts, I'm proud that my car was used on the Laid Back USA shirt, but I had absolutely nothing to do with that. I was shocked when I saw it. John (okfoz) and I spent many hours designing tshirts for TGO. John should get all of the credit because he did 90% of the work, and I asked that my car not be used! I also contacted a company in Las Vegas that does custom shirts and paid for professional screen printed TGO shirts out of my own pocket so that members here could have a nice shirt. Unfortunately, the Camaro design wasn't the greatest and I've discontinued using that printer for all future designs due to his unwillingness to work with me on fixing it. I sold the shirts at my cost, but it took a lot of time to package and ship after they were delivered to me.

Regarding the diecast issue...I've worked with Welly, Ertl and GMP (now Acme) to create an IROC-Z and Trans Am model. I've provided them all of the different options they could do with each mold to make it cost effective. I also provided them with the model differences so that minor changes could be made to the mold so they could produce many more from the same basic mold.

I've also researched RPO codes for the RPO decoder that was never finished and documented many aspects of these cars for TGO. I research prices and investigate options and pricing to provide accurate answers. Have you done this? You criticize me on a public forum that I've established a reputation on, yet you've provided very little to anyone here. Your condescending comments can be kept to yourself, because I don't need them. Thanks

Oh, BTW, I've also been included in Camaro related focus groups that Chevrolet hosted when designing the 5th gen. I've been invited to special Camaro events and have been a guest of Chevrolet at car unveilings and private showings. Don't tell me that I don't have a clue about these cars.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

....and you are a bully.

From here on in, any time you slam somebody or their car, I will copy it and tag it with Moyer so it will be easy to find in the future. I am not alone in my belief here as other's have contacted me thanking me for pointing it out.

Keep up the good work, but be nice about it!

scottmoyer

I'm a bully? You're an idiot!