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History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
Long time member, haven't posted in a while.. I know.. This is a common post here, especially back in my days.. Damn, I'm gettin' old..
I have stumbled upon the great white buffalo of IROC's.. For $3500, less than 80k kilometers, red leather interior, 5.7 T-top car.. 4 wheel disk, auto-tragic..
Had I not dumped.. Well, practically the value of a house in my '72 Charger, I wouldn't have hesitated, but I'm inquiring regarding any info on these..
I know the story was something about frame twist.. But how many were made, if I clean it up (It's rust free, but it's been sitting in an alignment shop for 15 years), and sell it, what sort of money could I get for this sucker?
Past experience with Camaros/Firebirds so you don't think I'm a crazy..
I bought it, I reckon if I get the wheels re-machined, get my exhaust guy to re-do the god awful exhaust, and an MAF sensor, she'll flip pretty quickly.
The interior is incredible, a small mark on the drivers seat, but it's all there, it still has the upper console thing with the dials, and the map light.. I'll post some pictures when I get it home.
There is a small amount of scaling toward the inside of the T-top rail, but I scraped it with my knife, and it's still solid.
Nothing too unusual there. Something like 40k Irocs in 1987, plenty of them were L98 cars, t-tops were optional, and the 350 came standard with rear discs.
I don't know where people in this thread are coming up with numbers with so little to go on. $8-12,000 seems like a real stretch to me if it needs any cleaning up whatsoever. One man's nice condition is another's beater. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't expect to double your money after a buff and wax.
Nothing too unusual there. Something like 40k Irocs in 1987, plenty of them were L98 cars, t-tops were optional, and the 350 came standard with rear discs.
I don't know where people in this thread are coming up with numbers with so little to go on. $8-12,000 seems like a real stretch to me if it needs any cleaning up whatsoever. One man's nice condition is another's beater. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't expect to double your money after a buff and wax.
Leather cars are few & far between Drew & as with other collectible cars, it's always the ones with the highest HP engine & the most options that climb first and are the most collectible. Low mile examples of the 40k produced in this configuration are going to be quite low - well bought & I think easily sold.
...and there are plenty of third gens you can double your money on with a buff & a wax, you just need to look for them.
The issue is, the car is listed at $3500 and the OP states that it sat for 15 years in a shop. I'm pretty sure it will need more than just a buff. The fact that it has a red interior is already a value loss to many. I personally wouldn't even consider a 3rd gen with red interior. Also, the rims and exhaust need work. If that's the case, there is more to do that wasn't mentioned. He also states the interior is all there, but doesn't state how clean or dirty that is. I think the car is worth $3500 based on what you mention. Fix these items and you might get your money back, but probably not.
Car wasn't listed at $3500, I partially traded a Dry Chem fire extinguisher system for a paint booth, to a family friend, who owns the car.
The car has never been listed online, and it's previous price was $10,000.
He's owned the car 18 years, put 5k kilometers on it, and just left it parked inside.
The red leather turns me off a bit, but I don't plan on keeping it.
On CL in the midwest, south and southwest. The last 5 sub 100k mile T Top Camaro's I've seen listed, have all been listed for over 8k. I've only seen a handful of IROC Z T Top with the 5.7L. 2 on Mecum that were in the 12-17K range if I remember right.
Nice find regardless of the interior color. Fix the flaws and make her shine, I bet you get a good price.
If prices are going up, then good. I haven't prowled Craigslist for thirdgens lately, but a few years ago it was fairly easy to find 5.7L cars in reasonable shape for very fair money. $8k would buy a lot of thirdgen if a person has the time to shop around.
I've got an 87 L98 t-top Iroc sitting in the garage right now, with 60k on the clock, even if I fixed all the little issues I think I'd have a really, really, really, hard time getting $8k out of it, but then I guess it doesn't have red leather interior. I don't really see leather as being much of a selling point (especially in red). And I don't see turning a $3500 car into a $17k BJ/Mecum auction car.
That's right, I forgot to mention that the leather is another issue for me. I don't like leather. My car has leather, but if I ordered it new, it would've had the top of the line option for fabric. When I drove the car on the Power Tour a few years back, the AC went out ad it was very hot from Florida to Indy. The wind blowing through the car wasn't so bad, but the sweat running down my back was unbearable. Leather doesn't breathe like fabric, so, no leather for me.
So it's only worth 8? I'm getting mixed reception here , when I was deep into third gens, my dream car was a 91/92 Z28 with the L98, which I can remember at the time, the prices of them were.. Shocking..
Now here in Ontario we have drive clean emissions testing, which isn't required on 87 and earlier.. Which to me is a huge selling point.. It's a cool car, and regardless of how long it takes to sell, I get to drive a wicked cool IROC
So it's only worth 8? I'm getting mixed reception here , when I was deep into third gens, my dream car was a 91/92 Z28 with the L98, which I can remember at the time, the prices of them were.. Shocking.
If you combine the year and a half of 1991, and the year of 1992 Z28, production you still have less than half as many 91/92 Z28s as you do in the single year of 1987 IrocZ production. Further, the 87 Iroc is pretty much the same style as every Iroc between 85-90. Sure the door decals moved, color options and wheels changed, but they all look pretty much the same to the casual admirer. The 91/92 Z had a two year only body styling, new wheels, more power, updated dash, etc etc etc. Apples/Oranges.
What you need to do if you really want to know what the car could bring is post some pictures. Maybe put it on Ebay with an insane reserve so you can see how high the bidding actually goes. But when you only give the major options, and mileage, that doesn't give anyone enough to go on. I mean I've got a 1986 Mustang with about 50k miles on the odometer, and it's a sun rotted, rusted out beater. Given just the year, mileage, and the "story" it sounds like a much more valuable car than the $500 the 'car' is actually worth. Then if you factor in that I've completely changed the entire drivetrain, upgrading all the mechanical parts and more than tripling the HP, the value starts climbing again. At any rate, you haven't posted nearly enough information for anyone in the thread to give you an estimate of what the car is worth, and even then you should take it with a grain of salt. You're dealing with enthusiasts here on this forum, once you get off the forum most people are just going to dismiss the car as being a slow ******-mobile. I don't mean to discourage you, but rather to present another view point so you're not disappointed after dumping money into a mild resto expecting a huge return on your investment.
I highly suspect that is what he was talking about, but sometimes people don't call T-tops, "T-tops" they call them "convertibles." This ends up being confusing because the 3rd gen had T-tops & what we historally call "Convertibles" as well...
It's definitely a 5.7 TPI car, 8th digit is an 8..
Has every option imaginable.. I've never seen an auto-darkening mirror in one of these before.. Has some sort of LTD Z etched into both door handles on the outside..
Runs great, aside from the right rear brake smoking on my way home..
I had a brake seize up on my 87 because of the hose, the hoses are a 2 layer design and the inner tube one had a hole, and when I hit the brakes, it forced brake fluid between the layers. Ultimately it would not allow the fluid to flow back out of the caliper.
Had to replace the caliper, rotor and obviously the hose. Of course that was on the front. I know one side for some years did not have a brake hose on the rear axle...
But that doesn't pertain to color. That only pertained to the size and style of the molding. I'm not sure what years the moldings changed color on the Firebird, or if they were ever just black to begin with like the 1985 Camaro.
No John, I was wrong, but thanks for benefit of the doubt. I had always thought they were black through 87 and that the colors came in 88 with the wider style. It wasn't until Scott pointed out my error that I went thumbing through the parts book and found the page above.
Solved the seized brake issue.. Caliper was seized, quick $140 for a new one after the core..
The door moulding isn't correct? Would it be worth replacing it with the original style?
After having this car for a week, I've already fallen in love.. It's like I'm in college again, causing havoc in my Trans Am.. There's nothing like a T-top sun burn..
Replacing the door molding with the correct one will be difficult, if not impossible. Most people are just removing them. Your choice. I'm not sure if they can be painted to match if you paint the car. If they can be, they may need a lighter color as a base before the color is applied so they don't have a darker hue than than the rest of the car.
On my 87 Firebird, the plastic was actually the color of the paint, I never painted mine, rather I just cleaned them up with mineral spirits and Zippo lighter fluid (Naphtha). My friend's 86 Trans Am with the narrow Red was also color all the way through, but his appeared to be painted over.
You do have to be careful removing them from the car, as there is a metal strip in them. If you are not careful and just "pull" you will end up with waves, and you can stretch them out making them longer.
I actually prefer the appearance of the car with the moldings...
I prefer the "with" look also. I know they are molded in color which is why it may be quite difficult locating the correct set or very expensive if you find NOS ones on eBay. I don't know how well paint will hold up on them if they were to be painted. He could also leave the black on there and people would just think the car is an '85 if they think about it at all.
Trust me, very few people would probably know they were not original if they were black. There are enough cars out there with them in just black that to see one that way probably would not make someone think otherwise. Unlike a Firebird with a Black molding from 87-92 that would seem out of place because you do not see them that way.
I would even bet that most "experts" would not catch it at a car show... The amount of stuff I have done to my 87 Formula and I still get questioned in the Tech-line whether or not that was factory kills me.
That may be true, but if trends continue, It seems that 3rd gens are coming into their own faster than most 2nd gens were only a few years ago... What I do not understand is technically the 3rd gen (when you look at the entire generation) are really better cars than 2nd gens, and 1st gens. Take the top performing 3rd gens and put it against the top performing 1st gen or 2nd gen and it would eat them for lunch, and then come back for seconds. The 3rd gen is safer, it handles better. Unfortunately What kills the image of the 3rd gen was the fact that it started out so lack-performance. Unlike Gen 2 that started out with a bang and fizzled to barely a performance car, the 3rd gen started slow, and ended up being quite the performer, mated to a great handling car.
I do not want to point fingers, but the 4 cyl, the LG4 being the base V8 were image killers for many people that really do not know much about them. IMHO If GM would have stuck with a 6 cyl, and one V8 for every year, they really would garner more attention today...
That may be true, but if trends continue, It seems that 3rd gens are coming into their own faster than most 2nd gens were only a few years ago... What I do not understand is technically the 3rd gen (when you look at the entire generation) are really better cars than 2nd gens, and 1st gens. Take the top performing 3rd gens and put it against the top performing 1st gen or 2nd gen and it would eat them for lunch, and then come back for seconds. The 3rd gen is safer, it handles better. Unfortunately What kills the image of the 3rd gen was the fact that it started out so lack-performance. Unlike Gen 2 that started out with a bang and fizzled to barely a performance car, the 3rd gen started slow, and ended up being quite the performer, mated to a great handling car.
I do not want to point fingers, but the 4 cyl, the LG4 being the base V8 were image killers for many people that really do not know much about them. IMHO If GM would have stuck with a 6 cyl, and one V8 for every year, they really would garner more attention today...
John
I'm going to have to disagree with you there John. The RA II 68 Firebirds are pulling low 11 second times in stock form at the Pure Stock Drags in Stanton MI every year & one is routinely getting low 10's in F.A.S.T. trim. For years Jim Mino spanked all comers with his carefully blueprinted RA II birds at the Musclecar Association drags, and now Rick Mahoney is doing the same with his. 69 & 70 RA III & IV cars are well into the 12's & even 11's in stock form and the 455HO & 455SD cars can perform at that level too and these times are all with skinny bias ply tires! Even as late as 1979 with the last of the W72 400 packages, Formula's & TA's were clicking off decent 13 second times.
I don't expect you will find a single 3rd gen in STOCK form, no matter how closely tuned, doing any better than a high 13 without slicks. In stock radials, you'd be lucky to get out of the 14's.
Don't get me wrong, I love the third gens, but they can't hold a candle performance wise to the 1st & 2nd gens.
Pure Stock Drags allow for slight mods for increased performance though, they are not all 100% the way the came from the factory just on radials. The ZL1 Camaro is usually the fastest musclecar, only to be topped by that 427 Vette, which is not a musclecar!
Yes though, certain 1st and early 2nd Gens were faster, but they were few and far inbetween. Otherwise, our cars are superior.
I agree. F.A.S.T. stands for Factory Appearance Stock Tires. That does not mean the car is 100% as it came from the factory as they do allow for engine boring, which obviously increases the cubic inches of the engine.
Pure Stock Drags allow for slight mods for increased performance though, they are not all 100% the way the came from the factory just on radials. The ZL1 Camaro is usually the fastest musclecar, only to be topped by that 427 Vette, which is not a musclecar!
Yes though, certain 1st and early 2nd Gens were faster, but they were few and far inbetween. Otherwise, our cars are superior.
The vette wasn't there last year & Mahoney brought his Super Bee. Eric did have the best time for the weekend with his ZL1, but I'm not sure if he won the event or not. I didn't get to go last year but plan on being there this year with my 71 GT-37 if I can touch the 12's at the Nationals in Norwalk later this month. Results are here - http://psmcdr.com/17.html
Agreed, not 100% stock, you can bump the compression 1.5 points and you need to be within an inch on the converter with no stall over 2400 I think - the major point is the tires however! If you've ever launched a car on bias ply tires, you will have a new respect for what goes on there!
It's easy to armchair they are better when there's twice as much rubber in contact with the road - and even then they are not. Set up any 3rd gen bird or Camaro the same way, under the same rules and put on the same tires & it will be night & day.
Originally Posted by scottmoyer
I agree. F.A.S.T. stands for Factory Appearance Stock Tires. That does not mean the car is 100% as it came from the factory as they do allow for engine boring, which obviously increases the cubic inches of the engine.
The F.A.S.T. cars are a whole different animal entirely and there is all sorts of bending (rules) going on there!
The cars look stock but are far from it, with engines pushed back, traction control systems, bored & stroked motors with some of the Fords over 600 CID! Some of the cars are real exercises in money & engineering with Rick's car leading the pack - although he only pulled a 10.45? I think a couple of weeks ago in Michigan, he's shooting for the 9's and thinks the car has it in it!
[/QUOTE" Even as late as 1979 with the last of the W72 400 packages, Formula's & TA's were clicking off decent 13 second times.
I don't expect you will find a single 3rd gen in STOCK form, no matter how closely tuned, doing any better than a high 13 without slicks. In stock radials, you'd be lucky to get out of the 14's.
Don't get me wrong, I love the third gens, but they can't hold a candle performance wise to the 1st & 2nd gens."/END QUOTE]........ No late 70s 400 or anything else GM put out even got close to 13s STOCK. I have seen so many of them run 16s including the top of the line corvettes for that time period. My dad had a brand new 6.6L Bandit car that only could muster a 15.5 Late 70s cars were nice looking but I wouldn't line one up with a 5.7 Iroc or Formula because it wouldn't even be close.
Once again, let me say that I love third gens, own them, enjoy them, even drove one today. However, that being said, Johns comment "Take the top performing 3rd gens and put it against the top performing 1st gen or 2nd gen and it would eat them for lunch, and then come back for seconds." has been addressed, accept it or not.
You can continue to cherry pick your stats, road tests or back in the day memories, but the points been lost.
06-05-2015, 05:37 AM
