bahsarie1

I am doing a resto mod with more emphasis on the resto. How important is it to collectors that only delco parts are used?

bahsarie1

Right now I am looking at replacing my water pump.

GCrites80s

How many of the chalkmark-type people are knowledgeable about our cars? Will there ever be that many judges that are good with that sort of thing in 3rd gen or will there ever be? Seems like that kind of stuff isn't as important culturally to this generation as opposed to 1st or early-2nd gen. I may be wrong.

89iroc89

Our cars will never be as desired or collectable as a 1st gen or even 2nd gen. It just wasn't the right generation. Just make the car what YOU want.

82RZ

I disagree. The 2nd gens have fallen out of favor if they were ever in favor. Look in Hemmings & what is rolling across the auction blocks. More and more desirable 3rd gens especially Z-28s & IROCs.

89iroc89

Yes, they'll go through the "fad" but will they ever be like old mopar muscle cars? Will they ever be like a 70 nova or a javelin or a ss? No. They will never be that valuable.

bahsarie1

Just curious any parts people recommend only delco in general?

82RZ

Yes and/or NOS for a faithful restoration.

bahsarie1

NOS?

someone972

iTrader: (2)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_old_stock

eseibel67

Ironically, GM owns Delco but the parts are not OE. That's the marketing fallacy that allows a Delco part to fetch a higher price than brand X. There is a possibility that you MIGHT get an OE part in a Delco box, however that possibility is exceedingly rare. Delco buys parts from quality suppliers, but the part in a Delco box is the same aftermarket consolidated piece that is available from any other main stream brand name manufacturer. If you are looking for an OE part for a concours restoration, Delco will not get you there. Look for a box that looks more like this:

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

Absolutely,

scottmoyer

You might not be able to replace all parts with original GM parts, but to keep it correct, manufacturer parts are preferred. I have replaced parts with aftermarket parts that have an identical look to them. Think of the relays on the firewall or radiator support. They were black from GM. You can buy aftermarket replacements that are light grey, but why not locate black ones that look like the original. That might be the best you can do. Also, why buy a tan colored distributor cap and red wires when you can get a black cap and black wires like the factory did. Just do your best is all you can do.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

What i have done b4 about those relays is to just swap the guts out with the "new stuff" and that leaves the original black case. ;-)

bahsarie1

Smart thinking

scottmoyer

I won't say that I've done the same thing!! ;-)

okfoz

Also I think my original wires were Dark gray and numbered in White. It has been a while but I do not think you can actually find spark plug wires that are numbered. If you can, I might be interested.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

The guys over at TTA-ville had a thread about their special plug wires and having them reproduced by the original supplier.
I would almost bet it's the same supplier that did the 3rd gen v8 wires. Id bet they could reproduce our V8 wires as well.
Id buy 2-3 sets.

eseibel67

I work for a manufacturer that extrudes ignition wire for MANY different ignition wire brands. We do custom wire jobs, the problem is that huge minimum commitments are required to get the product into a sensible price range. Then you can multiply that minimum by 8 if you want each individual lead "numbered". It would be very cool, but I'm not sure how practical it would be. We have trouble coordinating a group purchase for 5 spoilers, not sure anyone would take on the risk of ordering 8000 wire sets and then trying to get $120 a set in order to recover cost and make a menial profit for their efforts. Of course these aren't real numbers, but you get the drift.


Does anyone know if the TTA crowd did in fact get a custom set tooled up?

kymmee

Scott Kelly was in process of giving more info about doing this. He has not commented on the forum in a while. No one seems to know why his website has been disabled either.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Absolutely NOT.

Did at one time; hasn't for quite some years now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delco_Electronics


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_Automotive

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

I always thought that AC DELCO was a GM asset also.well anyway I found this.
On May 28, 1999, Delphi became a separate publicly traded company, and continued to use the Delco Electronics name for several of its subsidiaries until 2004.
Although Delco Electronics no longer exists as an operating company, GM still retains rights to the Delco name and uses it for some of its subsidiaries including the ACDelco parts division.

eseibel67

^Yes. Being in the industry, I lazily reduce the name to "Delco", when I am actually referring to the parts supplier, correctly named "AC Delco", that is 100% owned by General Motors: ACDelco

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

AC Delco today is just a name on a box; NOT a "parts supplier". GM buys the parts from wherever, some "customized" to their particular specs (color, shape details, etc.), some not; some the same as the parts that they put on cars in the factory, some not.

Their most popular ACTUAL "parts supplier" from whom they purchase parts is Delphi, their former parts mfg subsidiary.

Not sure who they buy the boxes from... lowest bidder no doubt.

okfoz

At one time Delco made parts for many other manufacturers. The funniest story I heard was a Delco plant in Saginaw, MI needed a part, so they got quotes from different manufacturers and took the lowest bid, only to later realize that the part the supplier was getting was from another supplier called "Delco" They were literally buying from a supplier that was buying their part. It is no wonder they are barely in business.

rusty vango

restored means ,returned to as new stock condition. as soon as you add the "mod" part it all goes out the window.

gt4373

okfoz

Just do what all the 1st gen guys do... Rebuild it and make it "look" right... put a cam, and do internal mods to the engine but keep it true to the year on the appearances... Then it will perform better, be more fun to drive... of course you will have to learn how to custom tune... its not hard to do just a learning curve.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

Since you are going to resto mod the car, I would not be as concerned about the name of the parts but more with the quality of them. For that market, it's all about looks & performance.

If you were restoring it - NOS is the way to go - one shelf in my stash.

90 GTA Black

Clean original parts can still be found for decent prices.
A lot of NOS parts are factory replacements.
ACDelco are hit and miss.

I like the idea of resto mod if the "mod" part is hidden.
Clean original 3rd gens will be worth what the first and second gens go for - it's just a matter of time. In a lot of ways they are a way better car.

scottmoyer

Most of the parts you see listed today are not NOS. GM Restoration parts are close to original, but not accurate. I bought a set of the Official GM Restoration center caps for my wheels. The gel coat that is applied to the center emblem is half the thickness of the originals. If you look at the originals, the gel coat is bubbled up taller than the plastic edge of the cap. The replacements, the gel is flat below the outer edge of the cap. That's just one example.

bahsarie1

I am trying to do the hidden mod well. Car looks stock. I plan on keeping the 305 and maybe adding a cam and heads to go with the headers and rear disc.

FrankieRider2

Best way to put it....great post, Scott.

FormerL69

iTrader: (2)

It's extremely hard to find correct OE parts for our cars. Even harder for the earlier cars since some of those parts were discontinued and superseded by newer parts used in later years.

IMHO, our cars will likely never be judged like the NCRS guys judge Corvettes. That's the only time it would matter in my opinion. To me, cars like Scott's that are truly all original are great because they show what things were like when they left the factory.

Just like old bias play tires tires, why use them unless you're being judged for perfect correctness? For me, it's about finding and installing a reliable part that looks right and works well so I can enjoy driving my car.

gt4373

As Long As Factory Parts Are Still Available I Use Them,As Factory Part's Get Discontinued You Have No Choice But To Go Aftermaket.

scottmoyer

Well, I am guilty of making notes on a 1000 point judging sheet that the part is incorrect. One example is the '82 Pace Car. The rear hatch release is supposed to be a toggle style switch, like the windows. Most cars have had the switch replaced with the slide switch found on later models. You can't find the old toggle switch anywhere. So the best you can do is to replace it with what's available. I've not taken points off, but I made a note of it on the judging sheet. If there was a replacement part that was a toggle style and the car had the slide switch, I would definitely take points off for being incorrect, but we don't have the replacement part availability that Corvettes do.

Also, if a person brings a car to a show and gets it judged, and has the window sticker to brag about what it has, I verify that the options are as listed. If a power antenna is listed and I see a fixed mast antenna, I take points. Rebuilding the power antenna is really our only option, but it can be done. So a fixed mast antenna, while also period correct, is not correct for that car and is the easy way out for a repair.

Really, you can only do what you can do. If you don't care about someone like me nit picking the car at a show, then do what you have available to make it work. In most cases, people aren't as picky as I am when "restoring" their car because they aren't doing it for 1000 point correctness.

mmadden55

No

FormerL69

iTrader: (2)

I agree 100% with your statements Scott. The hatch switch on the 82s is a perfect example of correctness for the model year that most people probably have no idea about. The wiper fluid reservoir is another (my car has both correct parts, btw ). As you said, if people are having their car judged for factory originality then correct parts are critical. My opinion, though, is that most people 'restoring' third gens are not going to go to that level of correctness. As you said, most will do what they need to do given the situation for their car. For my car, that's where I am at. I want the car to be as close to factory as I can make it, but given my funds and my skill level, it will be far from a 1000 point car. But I am one of those OCD types where the wrong dash pad or the wrong hatch switch would bug the crap out of me.

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

okfoz

I was at the trans Am nationals last year, and this guy had this 1987-90 Trans Am, or GTA, It was was a really nice looking car, and he was telling me on how "original" his car was... I offered to take a look, and within 20 seconds I picked out 3 or 4 things that were technically not correct. The one that really stuck out at me was he had a Delco Air Conditioner pump... It should be Harrison... The little details like that make such a big difference. Granted a Delco would be the GM replacement today, but it is not correct without the correct sticker. I would personally be inclined to try to fake my sticker to make it appear correct... or just disassemble it and fix the pump... Usually the seals go on the crappy R4 pumps...

I am not sure how many people know that a lot of pieces and parts can be saved and rebuilt...

John

scottmoyer

Again, I'm guilty. I ordered 3 different AC compressors that all had replacement part numbers for my original, but only the 3rd one looked identical. It didn't have the Harrison sticker, but it does now!!!

okfoz

I know you will argue with me, but I own 3 1987's, and my friend has an 86 (which should have the same compressor). That is not the correct compressor for 1987, The clutch is wrong.

I would be very very skeptical if you argue that they might be different for Firebird and Camaro, but the clutch is wrong on your car...

Sorry

John

okfoz

THIS is what the A/C clutch looks like... All 4 of my 87's look like this (I say 4 because I have another car that has a 1987 drive train). Of course in various condition... this is one of my almost parts cars.

scottmoyer

No way!!! My ac clutch never looked that dirty!!!

You are correct that the clutch is different. The replacement compressor is identical to the factory. The other compressors I ordered were completely different. This one is about as close as you can get today without rebuilding the original. I'm not too sure that I want to order a brand new NOS R4 compressor due to the bearing failure that they are known for. My best option was to get this newer model that shouldn't have the issues of the original.

Also, my post was to show that I replaced the sticker so most people would never know. Thanks John for ruining that for my future car shows! Here's the factory original unit.

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

Scoot, where did you end up finding the "right" compressor?

scottmoyer

My local AC Delco supplier. They just kept ordering the replacement part numbers until we found one that was close. Some were way off and looked like just an generic unit that you would find in the help section of the auto stores.

okfoz

Your car just went from a 995 to a 800 in my book... Sorry...

scottmoyer

That's 996, buddy!

okfoz

Not any more!!!

Sorry, I just have to razz you... Everyone knows you have the cleanest car on the block...

okfoz

Actually if I am not mistaken, you could take the clutch off of one and install it on the other, if you still had the old AC compressor. Of course they could have changed the diameter of the screw that holds it onto the shaft