Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

I remember there being a huge uproar here about a mint 19k mile GTA going to the crusher. One of our members posted it when he took pictures of it. Tries to save it but couldn't because it was already logged into the governmental database.

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

No, once it was accepted into the database upon turn in they weren't allowed to keep or sell them.

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

Yep, I remember someone posted a video of it tearing up the parking lot until the engine DIED.

ev305tpi

iTrader: (3)

It still makes me so mad.... really mad....

RTGTA

Damn! All the vehicles we took in during Cash for Clunkers were rusted out S10's and SUV's. One would think that if someone came in with an exceptional older vehicle (TTA, GNX, etc) the dealer could've just done it as a trade instead of a CFC deal?

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

then there's the few that were paid for new sent away to have mods done...and tucked away for weekends.

Boxxx

Which is exactly why Ford took no bailout money whatsoever.

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

gsmarcano

beautiful GTA bro,....................

FirebirdUSX

I bet the crap those 2 idiots got sells for alot less than those cars sell now.Low IQ gets you low on money....good luck driving the plastic prius.

IMissMy86TA

1. Nice drifting. wow
2. Sad to see them kill a vette. who in their right mind gives a vette into CFC?

kymmee

CFC was one of many stupid programs implimented by the government. My take from it is-it did little to stimulate the economy and a lot of the cars that were purchased through the program were foreign cars. In the top 5 purchased, #1 was a Ford, #2, 4 and 5 were a Toyota and #3 was a Honda.

Also I remember watching those videos and feeling between angry and sad. Also some videos I watched were ones of people walking thru lots showing which vehicles were traded in.

I don't see the logic in having a decent running vehicle that was probably paid for-to going in debt with a payment and higher insurance, beyond the "gas mileage" savings that was promoted. But my DD is a 94 Cutlass with 120,xxx.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

My parents neighbor doesn't keep a car for more than two years. I don't know that he's ever actually owned one, he just leases them. He's constantly trading in and upgrading the car, always for a newer model. I can't do that. I get attached to my cars and have this pathlogical desire to "fix" or "upgrade" them.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

To most people, a car is nothing more, or less, than a tool to obtain a commodity. The commodity being, personal transportation.

In the 60s cars were more than that: they were a centerpiece of American culture, industrial evidence of our moral superiority to the rest of the world, reinforcing all those great feelings from winning WW2. Once that got stripped away, ... all that's left is, the commodity. Which other countries in the world have proven themselves fairly adept at producing. That cultural connection with cars as a symbol of America's might ENDED in 1973. It will NEVER return.

Only reason Frod didn't take bailout money, was that they had just immediately prior to the crash, obtained a long-term line of credit. They even mortgaged their name. It wasn't because they were "better" or anything of the kind; just, lucky, that the move that they were forced to make at that moment prior to the credit crash, by the circumstances that had already painted them into a corner, turned out after the fact to be their salvation, when circumstances changed later.

okfoz

A new Z28 is $70,000
A 1987 IROC is $4000 (with LG4)

NEW LS7 motor & 6 speed Trans $25,000?
Every upgrade you could think of for sub frame connectors, suspension & rear axle: $10,000
Show quality paint $8000
New interior in Leather: $2500

So for a lot less the price I believe you could make you a car that could contend performance wise with a new Z28...

You would have invested $39,540 (using my numbers) and in 5 years the value of the NEW Z28 would be $35,000 with 20,000 miles, you essentially lost $35,000 over that period. On the other hand your $39,540 would be worth $8,000 - $10,000 after 20,000 additional miles for a loss of $31,540.

Dollars and cents wise a third gen is a better bet.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Compared to some of the oddball cars I am always shopping for, our 3rd gens are as desirable as Ferraris.

I'll give you some examples:

I am currently looking for a nice '79-'80 Century Turbo Coupe. I don't know why, it has struck my fancy.

I'm also looking for an '81, 4 speed, X-11.

I just sold my 1979 AMX, 304, 4 speed.

I keep bothering a guy who has a 1979, factory 4 speed, Malibu Wagon, sitting in his barn for 30 years.... to sell it to me.

So in comparison, a nice IROC-Z or GTA have much broader appeal and desirability than other cars I look for. So in that comparative respect, I don't even know what you guys are talking about.

kymmee

A "new" car is no longer "new' as soon as it is driven off the lot. It starts depreciating immediately. For this reason, I have never bought a brand new car and probably never will. Like sofakingdom said, it is just a commodity and a means to get from point A to point B. I would much rather spend that extra savings of not buying new on "toys".

IMissMy86TA

It would seem you like to row your gears

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Yes!

Except for this Century Turbo Coupe thing I've got going on right now.

IMissMy86TA

yeah that did look like the odd bird out.
88 GTA 5 speed)
I have driven a few nice 5 speeds..
2006 corvette Z06
1966 Corvette 4 speed soft top with sidepipes
1990 Ferrari Testarossa
Porsche S4 tiptronic... (not the same but wow)
Bet you have driven some nice ones as well

eseibel67

^ I understand the other weirdo's, but you must explain yourself on the Citation. Why do you want this? You have a reputation for having good taste and this doesn't fit. Can't imagine you could find one that's in acceptable condition.

FinallyGotMyZ

Anyone else feel a little sick to their stomach watching that 'Vette breathe its last?

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

LOLZ!!! I'm one of Charlie's 'inner circle' of car guys. He sends me and a couple other guys an e-mail when he finds something interesting. I consider this a very privileged position to be in. What you said here is almost verbatim to what we said! We also gave him a tongue lashing over the X-11 thing but as you can see it fell on deaf ears! haha. Charlie has some bizarre interests that should probably be left unexplored.

You guys should have seen the '78 Chrysler LeBaron he found with a factory 4speed and T-tops!

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Why an X-11? I see you fellas need an edumacation!

Did you guys know that the '81 and up X-11 is the exact package which John Heinricy developed for the Citation in order to win in SCCA SSB class in '79 and '80? Yeah, thought not.

Beyond a host of chassis improvements, it's hot High Output V6 had higher compression, bigger cam, larger intake and exhaust valves in improved heads, bigger exhaust, functional cold air cowl induction, etc.

The X-11 wasn't just fast compared to other front drivers of the day, it was fast compared to anything of the day.

Beyond that, I drove a stripper, (ie, no options, bench seat, poverty caps), '80 Citation Club Coupe, with a V6 and 4 speed in the early '80's. Ballsiest available powertrain in the lightest body. But I yearned for that badass '81 X-11.

To be perfectly honest, I was getting so tired of my Citation's reliability and under engineering issues after a while, that I was glad to trade it in. But....time makes you nostalgic I guess. But when it wasn't breaking, it was fun to drive. I had a custom exhaust bent up for it, got rid of the cat and recurved the distributor. I could chirp third gear with it! I certainly surprised some of the LoPo V8s of the day.

Anyway, this is an interesting read of how Heinricy developed the X-11 package.

http://www.geocities.ws/citation_x11/history.html

87350gtanj

I remember hearing something about that also such a shame for the TTA. And as far as are cars not being desirable I think that is a matter of opinion and time. I can tell you that our third gens are definitely more desirable then the LT-1 fourth gens and the average lt-1 fourth gen average around $3500 on a good day atleast in my area...

eseibel67

Chazman: OK... great development story, real racing history and you actually owned one. I still don't get it, but oh well, that's why they make both chocolate and vanilla.


Just imagine this scenario. In the summer of 1983 some guy walks into a Chevy dealership showroom, and side-by-side sit a both brand new X-11 and an L69 Z-28. I don't even want to finish the story if the guy that picked the Citation because it does not compute.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

LOLZ!! This quote is cracking me up, best quote of the month so far right there.

okfoz

One of my Youth pastors had a Gray X-11 with the 4 speed... Went for a drive with him once, and he was all nonchalant, "Yeah, it is supposed to be some special package." It had the Big X-11 on the Doors... He zoomed around in it... Mind you this was in the early 1990's...

John

FinallyGotMyZ

One of my uncles had a two-tone X-11 (red with gray bottom trim). That thing was bad @$$ in its day. Anyone else remember the vertical radio setup?

IMissMy86TA

yeah that was very painful. made me want to scream.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Yup, I remember.

Two tone would have made it an '80?

FinallyGotMyZ

I believe you are right, although memory is failing me on that particular item...

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Oh, I'd go for the L-69! But...I already have three 3rd gens, so I'm trying to widen my horizons.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Or what's awaiting that Formula.

FinallyGotMyZ

That too, but the 'Vette video was the engine actually being ruined in front of our eyes. A little more direct, y'know?

87350gtanj

couldn't get threw the vette video and it's a shame about that formula looked like a real nice car..

IMissMy86TA

true..but a vette... i mean a freakin vette... who does such inhumanity as this?

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

I was more broke up about the Formula than I was about that vette. Vettes like that are everywhere for sale all the time. It's much harder to find a decent 91-92 Formula...

bjpotter

So true, and Vette's generally sell for less with less mileage.

bjpotter

Mecum has 2 auctions coming up in Houston and KC. Already there are multiple 80's vettes for sale. Most will sell for less than 10k. I see very few late model Formula's ever come to auction.

IMissMy86TA

true true but give it time.. I have never known a Vette to not gain in value over time after they drop for a while. I was looking at a 71 vette in great shape in 87 and I could of bought it for 7K...
that was it.. now you cant touch it.

Boxxx

The LT1 4th gens are desirable provided they have the T-56, they're also near impossible to find. I'd only been looking forever until I gave up and bought my '79. If you're into automatics the L98 and LT1 becomes more of a wash and it's down to generational preference.

87350gtanj

Must be the difference in location I sold my 93' LT-1 T56 car with 90k on it for the same price as I just sold my 87 GTA for.But now I can see if it's a T-56 LS-1 car. The LT-1 cars near me are super cheap T-56 or not.And the wonderful opti-spark they put on those cars is just plain horrible I now am on my second ls-1 car and would never own another lt-1 car due to the opti-spark is prone to fail being behind the water pump and I've changed my fair share of those.

Boxxx

I think the 4L60E is more of an issue than opti-spark. I like the LT1, it's not so bad with the later revised opti-spark. Being I leave my cars mostly stock anyway I prefer it to a degree over the LS1, just for the exhaust note though.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Exactly! Add brakes and suspension goodies and you hit my mark!

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

Shoot, even less than that honestly. If you just want to beat it in a straight line you just need to build a 12.5 sec. quarter mile car. Throw in some suspension and chassis mods to compete on the road track and you're good.

The weight is what kills that car.

Linson

Welp...let me say this:
I've always said that these cars do not command much money, probably never will command much money, and that was a good thing.

Now, i am satisfied with my 3rd Gen collection. But i still regularly scan the Seattle Craigslist for Camaros and Firebirds out of curiosity, but moreover to help out guys here who may be tempted to pull the trigger on a less than viable project. In this manner i have been able to point out that for the very little money, one could (in my area) buy a very solid IROC, TA, or Formula (sometimes for $3K or less).

A year ago (seriously, just a year ago) i was able to find examples of these cars (of sound body and mind) for relatively easy to attain prices.

Over the last few months, i've found that
1) there are very few IROCS, maybe a few more Trans Ams, and almost NO Formulas for sale.
2) clean and original IROCS have $10,000 + price tags. Trans Ams, usually less, but still...

I am seeing very nice condition, super clean LT1 Fourth Gens for less than $5K (very common). I am seeing very nice condition LS1 4th Gens for in the 7s. It is now becoming financially feasible to buy a NON-WRECKED, very good condition '98-up WS6 Trans Am JUST to swap its parts into a 3rd Gen.

Dont believe me? I can post links (not right now because i'm typing this on my iPhone) but later on, on my desk top, no problem. Just looked at Seattle and El Paso Craigslist under IROC, camaro, Firebird, Trans Am, Formula.

So there you have it. Its seems that demand or value is going up. But that would never stop me from throwing a Jegs catalog at these cars as God intended.

mumirluu

Pontiac We Build Exitment

kato89GTA

1989

BMR

1989 Trans AM GTA