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I'm having trouble finding true definitions, maybe there isn't one. In which case what's your opinion on either.

I have mixed feelings about what to do with my car. My hopes is that one day my 89 camaro RS 305 auto will be worth something in maybe 20 or 30 years. So I'm trying to figure out whwhat to do with it. The interior is mint, no exaggeration. There's no rot and very little rust. It has 105k miles on the whole car, and it runs better than even new cars I've driven. The only bad part is of course the paint, which I will take care of eventually.

Currently it's only modifications are exhaust and air cleaner.

Pretend for a second that this is a very desirable car. Is it worth more money with all original parts. With new aftermarket parts, or with new upgraded aftermarket parts e.g. headers, better cam etc.

NowhereFast

An original car is always going to be worth more than a modded one. Personally, I like to play with my cars and do work to them, but I'm a big fan of originality. Therefore it's a compromise in that I don't do any work to the car that can't be reversed, and I keep all the original parts.

For example, when I went from 2.73 to a 3.42, I took a rear from a parts car I have, and I swapped the new gears and posi into that one. The original rear is holding my parts car off the ground, and before I junk it, I'll take the rear out and store it.

But then, none of this really matters anyway because most people won't care. To each their own.

82RZ

^^ This. And as my good friend Floyd Garrett once said, "Any vehicle is only original once. Change the wiper blades or battery and it's no longer original." Sounds extreme I know but there are people in the 'Vette world that will pay Big $$ for a so-called 'Survivor'. Something to think about.

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Well see that's my biggest issue. Before I can decide what to do, I need to know what exactly is original.

Is original meaning parts that came on the car and all the rust that goes with it.

Or if I change my manifolds with Dorman reproduction manifolds will it still be original, as aposed to say putting headers on it.

I know there's original, survivor, restored, restomod.

Would my car fit the description of restored if I replaced the parts with new oem parts, so that everything is new but still meets the same specs as it did when it was from The factory?

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Enjoy your car and do what you want to it. It is not the top model and in the slight chance these cars reach collectible status, there is a good chance someone will mod it anyway. Life is too short to sit around and wait for the value of a car to rise.

t/aws61985

iTrader: (2)

In my opinion, a car is original as long as all the parts come from GM. meaning that if you destroy a fender. You replace it with a GM fender. I also consider the car original if it comes with all the original parts.(obviously there are some exceptions to the rule considering that some parts are just not made anymore or even findable) When I bought my 86, the owner had the orginal sound system and wrap around spoiler, along with many other parts which he changed due to age or his personal choice. I bought it because it was all there. there are some people that are strict, as wanting to have the original MacPherson struts or Gatorbacks still on the car. But cars like that are few and far between. If I were you, I would just keep all the parts you take off the car. I would also maybe start a binder full of sales receipts, from the parts you buy/put on, along with other information on the car.

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When I recieved the car I,also got a huge binder with receipts and I have the original window sticker, manuals, warranty paperwork, the seal to the ddealer it was bought from and even an original document to,a recall in 1990.

So far everything I've taken off I've kept except for the AC parts because it needs to be updated anyway and cannot be reused .

Based on the receipts and just by looking it, it actually has quite a bit of performance suspension so now realizing, It would be silly to revert it to stock,when it already has better parts.

I think I will just keep it looking stock interior and exterior and maybe,build up the motor so I'll get a surprised look when the hood pops, expecting it to be a v6 or boat anchor.

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scottmoyer

As others have said, do what you want with the car and enjoy it. It's not a top performance model so "someday" might never come for the base model car in 1989. Also, if you look at the resto mods running across the auction blocks, you'll notice that most of them are made from the base car of that year. The resto mod actually improves the value of the base model. Do what you want, but I would have fun with this car. If you want to have an all original car, get a low mile top-of-the-line model and keep that one pristine.

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OK this is exactly what I wanted to know. That's good news since I can have fun with it.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

If that's REALLY your motivation, DON'T DO IT. It won't happen.

If you DO do it ANYWAY, DON'T drive it.

The "worth lots of money someday" does not apply to these cars. Or for that matter, ANY other car built after the early 70s, with EXTREMELY RARE exceptions. And those only exceptions are, cars that REALLY EXCITED the general car-buying public about cars, and REALLY CAPTURED the essence of the spirit of the times; the DeLorean for example.

A common ordinary run-of-the-mill car like a TBI car is not in that category.

The reason old muscle cars are so valuable today, is because of the time they were born into, NOT simply because they are old. In those days, cars were EXCITING, and people COULD NOT WAIT to get to the dealer to see what surprises were in store. Songs on the radio were full of their names... GTO, Mustang, Vette, etc. Drag racing and other "participative" motorsports were dominant. Go listen to 60s songs on an oldies station and count the car ones.

That all came crashing down in the double whammy of emissions regulations in the early 70s (which the mfrs couldn't engineer around, and instead applied crippling hack-job band-aids to try to comply) and the Arab oil embargo. By 1974 the car culture as we had previously known it, was DEAD, never to return. And after that, the mind of the general public simply moved on, never to return. Nobody wants to re-live 80s cars the way they do 60s cars; not even so much because of the cars themselves, but rather, the culture around them.

Don't make your decisions on the basis you propose. Do what YOU want with the car, the way YOU enjoy it, whatever that is; but DON'T make the mistake of hallucinating that you're "investing" in your car. YOU'RE NOT. You WILL NOT get back what you put into it, no matter how little or much that is, EVER. If you begin your reasoning process with such a flawed premise, you WILL SURELY be disappointed. Enjoy your car any way you want, even if, for you, that means making it back perfect and pristine; but, do it because YOU ENJOY IT, and NOT because "it's gonna be worth a mint someday"; because it simply WON'T.

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Thank you for being blunt and honest.

What you're saying makes sense. I suppose the only way to make this worth money is by the individual parts added. Such as a fully,built 383. But it's the motor that will make it worth money, not the car as a whole, am I correct?

With all thus being said and thinking,it over the past couple days I've decided I just want to,have a very clean smooth running car.

Its saying a lot when a 25 year old car looks and runs better than your average 5 year old daily driver. And that's something I can be proud of.

IMissMy86TA

While your message was rather rude but... many of your points were right, but many were wrong. The reason someone falls in love with a car didnt stop in the 70s. You must be really old to believe that... Many are out there who remember the cars in their HS days that they really wished they could have. Many went to the dealers to look at said car even in the 80s. As I graduated HS in 86 I was lucky enough to have a father that bought me a 83 Camaro and a 86 TA. I was the kid had the cars that the other kids wanted... got offered cash to let them "borrow" the car.. never happened. I agree that a RS is not a collector piece. But to say Thirdgens will never be prized by many is not very logical. I sold my baby after HS but I bought a more high end version of her and own it now. I didn't pay a lot and I know that its value as gone up. will it ever reach the stratosphere like some Hemi? no! will it increase in value as guys my age start to retire and want to drive the cars they wanted in HS and have more cash from their retirement accounts to spend on it? yes! Will I sell it? NO! My son will get it and one day he may sell it or just drive it and think of our times in it however short they are and our times detailing and winning at car shows
Its not about the culture around them but desire and memories. The 70s smoky and bandit cars are pretty high now and the sellers making some $$$? yes! not the same as if they invested it other places but still got some joy from owning it and didnt lose money and gained. Hope this is a good perspective if he keeps the RS he may make a little money one day but not much. and if he likes it like new.. then all good.. but he may never get out what he put in.

scottmoyer

When looking at the old car value versus the newer car values, sofa is right. They will probably never reach that level. Think of the cost of the car new. A '69 Z28 was about $4k, depending on options. When the car was 30 years old, you could get a Z28 or an SS that was fully restored for about $22k. That's 5.5 times the cars original value! Today, you're looking at 10x plus for those same late 60s to early 70s every day cars. I'm not looking at special cars or very limited run hemis.

Now look at the '85 IROC-Z, now 30 years old. It was the top dawg in 1985 as far as desirability along with the mustang GT. Neither car is demanding 5x their original value of around $15k. It would be nice, but it ain't happening! I'd like to think that my car will be worth 5x it's sticker in two years, but to say my car will be worth $100k plus is just unreal.

bjpotter

It should be noted that mileage has more importance than any in collector car markets. A pristine RS at 2000 miles is worth more than a TA with 110,000 miles of the same year. There are rare exceptions but otherwise true.
You, like me, own a driver car. What excites you and makes you want to drive the car more, is what you should do.
As for why the early muscle cars are so valuable, another reason is the styling was so different from car to car and manufacturer to Manufacturer. In my day you could see headlights and could tell what car it was. But don't discount today's cars either. The explosion in HP, light weight cars, new propulsion, and new lightweight body materials will create a bubble of value.....Some day.....

bjpotter

Although drivetrain's are tied to value, choosing the right one doe's make a difference. You mentioned a 383. That might not add to the value. I see a lot of ad's with them listed and they usually sit for months and sell for much less than the ones with original motors or original to that model. When I see those ads 2 things come to mind. Did they thrash this car in drag race after drag race? Did they do a hack job on the install? From the looks of the market for them, a lot of others have the same thoughts.

kymmee

Another factor is inflation. The cars from the 60's and 70's were not that expensive to begin with compared to what they sell for today. Someone who purchases a new Corvette, even if they dont drive it much and keep it pristine, will it be worth 5x what they paid in 30 yrs? Highly unlikely, but yet to be determined.

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My original thought process was, how many third gens are all original...not many regardless of the real definition.

My car is one of maybe a handful I've ever herd of that was so close to stock. It at least appears to have 90% of the original parts that came from the factory.

I'm thinking just that fact alone would make it desirable in 20 years if it stayed that way. I mean by then every third gen in existence will either by in a junkyard or cut up.

kymmee

I understand your concern about being original. It is something to ponder. I have a 1982 base firebird with only 23,4xx miles that is a survivor car and very original. But it is a V-6 and low optioned. I have owned it since 2009 and have left it alone. Ity gets driven sparingly. I know it will never be worth a goldmine, but the fact that it is a complete low mile original keeps me from modifying it. I have bought several other 3rd gens with better performance to keep my attention.

It is entirely up to you what you do with your car. But have fun with it. The documents you have will help with its collectibility, but the higher mileage makes it less collectible.

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

That car would be perfect for someone wanting to just have a clean car to cruise around in, even though it's the tbi 305 it is at least the V8 model.

In terms of HIGH value in 20 years, I don't think so. Do I see it possibly bringing 20-25k in 20 years? heck yeah. Considering the majority of our cars are rotting away in junkyards or sitting in alleys somewhere that is not a crazy number to expect. The question is, do you see yourself ever selling it AND are you prepared to essentially have a piece of dead weight sit in your garage?

If you never plan to sell it, do what you want, that's the fun of it!

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Yes I'm,torn that's why I brought it up in,a thread.

Yes Its an RS but it's a 305 RS, not a base v6. it has some options. Also it has all original interior including The radio which works!

Also what I have going,for it is the documents like you said, about the only thing bad about it is the badge, and that,it's not a 350, and the miles of course.

I think at this point I'm just going to be proud,of what I have and enjoy it like others are saying.

I,will garage it during winters, and get an aantique plate, and freshen it up with new paint, and some chrome valve covers etc. Abd light mods like headers and a custom chip for fun.

I don't think I'll ever sell it anyway. It may just become a project for my son and I when he's old enough. Maybe then well,build a 350 and swap it.

bjpotter

That's a wise choice. Enjoy it now. If you want an investment car, buy a desirable version and put it away. I will never have that choice, I am too old to wait and would keep sneaking a drive of any collector car in the garage.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Thank you very little.

One thing that age gives you, is PERSPECTIVE on THE LONG TERM. I'll give you an example:

In 1978, on the mid July day I met the girl who is now my wife of .... all these years, I was working on a friend's wife's 57 Chevy. It was, as cars go, a steaming bucket of excrement. It still had the original 2-tone (white and aqua) paint; it had a 283 that smoked so bad the whole back of the car was black (which is what I was in fact working on); the rubber floor mat was ... yeah; the crappy leaf-spring rear suspension those had sagged so bad that the rear bumper almost touched the ground when 2 people were in the back seat; etc. etc. etc. etc. BUT... it was a 57 Chevy. Before my friend had met her, it was her "guy magnet"; she would only let guys she REALLY LIKED even get into it, but I don't think ANYBODY ever DROVE it, until she married my friend. Hey, it was a 57 Chevy.

That car on that day was 22 yrs old.

Let that sink in for a minute... 22 yrs old.

The single highest-production (most common) car model in all of car mfg history until the 65 Mustang, was ALREADY a TO DIE FOR classic after 22 yrs.

When you look at the "old car culture", that's the kind of mania you see.

So how old is a 89 car TODAY?

26½ yrs, give or take, eh????

THAT'S the difference between those old pre-emissions pre-oil-embargo cars, and these cars, right there. Doesn't matter that these cars are ALTOGETHER SUPERIOR in every conceivable way to a 57 Chevy; they are faster, ride better, handle better, last longer, .... practically ANY measure you can come up with of "better", these cars have it all over a 57 Chevy.

BUT: which one sells for the bigger bux?

Right.

The key to this discussion is, UNDERSTANDING WHY.

The 57 Chevy was born into a time when people WORSHIPPED cars, they IDOLIZED them, they wrote songs about them, and so forth. Can ANY of you guys (yes I worked in the radio business from the late 70s through the early 00s) name even ONE song about our cars? or 80s Mustangs? or 80s Vettes? The culture just isn't the same.

Sure, there's the occasional romantic that wants to re-live high school; but that's FAR FROM the norm. Whereas, I doubt you could offer ANYBODY a 57 Chevy, and they wouldn't jump at it.

DO NOT make the mistake of dreaming that just because YOU are romantic about your 80s car, that ANYBODY else will be. That's a real good way to empty your wallet and make damn sure you live under an expressway bridge for the rest of your life after you get laid off the last time. STUDY and LEARN what makes a car "valuable" before sinking your hard-earned $$$$$ into one on the premise that you're going to hit it big "someday", lest you find out the hard way after it's TOO LATE that nobody shares your fantasy. That goes double, triple, quadruple, or MORE for a car that you intend to drive.

Do to your car what YOU like, to make the car into what YOU want, for YOU YOURSELF EXCLUSIVELY. Leave everybody else out of it. Whether that's a racer, a cruiser, a meticulously original showpiece, a POS, WHATEVER. Do it FOR YOURSELF. NOT, for what you imagine out of thin air against all evidence to the contrary that it will be "worth" "someday". That is the road to a TOTAL WASTE of money, that you won't find out was a waste until it's WAY TOO LATE to get ANY of it back.

eseibel67

Sofa: You are right on all counts globally. But there are some mainstream exceptions such as the Bandit T/A's mentioned above. You don't predate me by that much, and I always looked at a 73 Z-28 or a 77 Trans Am as a leftover lo-po muscle car whose inevitable fate would be crushed scrap metal. I was wrong. You might be wrong on the better performance model 3rd gens.

92g92

Bitchin' Camaro by The Dead Milkmen. It's about a thirdgen Camaro. So HA! But yeah, seriously dude, at 105k, it's past the point. Sweet car, but think of it as YOUR car, not some collector's in thirty years. Let those with the 5k mile cars do the waiting, you do the building and driving. It's a thirdgen, lovely to look at, better to drive.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

As time goes on, people will want different things...
I can't stand the old Chevelles, GTO's... A 69 Camaro... nice, but I'd rather have the 89 TTA... I'm 43...

With that being said, as has been repeated... enjoy it... take care of it... 100k mile car will not be worth as much as a 2000 mile car.... and it depends who you run across at the time... I had a friend sell a completed KR replica for $7000 and another for $50,000... In actuality, probably only a few thousand $$$ difference that each had in the car... a 100k+ mile car doesn't need to be in a bubble... use it, have fun... a 2000 mile car... probably should be in a bubble... but I would never buy it so it just sat there waiting for that day....

Rafael

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

If you have a nice low mile GTA,TA,Z28,TTA or Firehawk it will be worth some $ one day and being stock will help. I agree with most it wont bring the kind of $ a 68 Camaro,Firebird or GTO will bring but I will say this like ive said before. In the early 90s I saw nice 68 Camaros go for $6500-$8500 range and down here where I live you will almost pay that for a nice run of the mill Z28 or Trans Am. I wouldn't take a dime less than 8k for mine unless I was in a financial bind because I couldn't replace it for that. Aint no more of em coming of the assembly lines.

okfoz

First thing we have to realize is NONE of our cars are "exactly like they came off the assembly line" FOr example, the oil filter would have been painted ON the engine. So, if your oil filter is not painted, it is obviously not original. Secondly, The Camaros I know for sure the rear chin spoiler was not installed at the factory, rather it was installed at the DEALER after they took delivery and it was off the truck...


So what is original? I would say it was the intent of the designer... I personally like and don't like the rule they have at the Trans Am Nationals. If you have any option from the same year Firebird, even if it was not available on that model, it flies as being original... BUT it has to be something from a Firebird, or it is considered modified. So you can have GTA wheels on a Formula, and it is still considered "stock"

I think staying true to the car is important, keep that in mind. Going bonkers trying to get an exact part is fun sometimes, but overall not important as long as it is not something way off base. The correct color spark plug wires, the correct color distributor cap, etc...

IMissMy86TA

ahh the trans am nationals. that's something I will be doing this year. I hate that someone can replace the entire exhaust system and stay stock yet I have some period correct exhaust tips on my completely stock exhaust and have to go modified... i mean really... the tips are very similar to the TTAs and they were new in box new old stock hooker tips with a 2.5" inlet which is very rare. most are 2.25 for this style. I have a very stock looking tint (50%) and the rims are original with plastidip. the engine bay and interior and sheet metal and paint is all original. I just don't know.. yet i will complete against tuners and the like...not very pleased about that.

oh and here is a video from 2011 I took of her with the formula rims on it.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Taking off those hideus Formula wheels is probably the best thing you have ever done to that car. That's the first thing that came off mine and thankfully the guy before me took the hideus Formula front and rear bumpers with those eyesore bumper pads off and swapped out with Gta GFX. So maybe my car isn't stock or wont be worth big $ but I like it like it is. I really like the hood that came on the Formula.

IMissMy86TA

Yeah well I bought those rims and had them powder coated ($$$) and I do like them but I like the current rims more. I do not like the gold rims at all and plastidipped them black. I was looking for the look that I had with my 86. But I didnt want silver because of the gold interior and gold GTA badges. and I wanted to stay at a 16" rim

[IMG][/IMG]

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

The GTA style PW7 wheels have always been my favorites. I like em black, gold, and even red or white to match the car like DynoDave or Mantaguy has. As far as on Camaros I like the wheels commonly found on later Z28s that have accented paint inside the rim to match the car. Look at the difference the PW7s made on my car!000.jpgffffff.jpg

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

I think Sofa hit on it with the general public's consensus of how cars are viewed. Cars in the 50's and 60's not only were revolutionary for their styling and performance, but they also represented freedom. For really the first time, people were truly mobile and the music and television of the time really reinforced that. It's a time we'll never get back. The general public just doesn't worship cars like that any more. Yes, there are car people like us. There always will be. But our cars and the cars of the future won't capture the imagination of the public like those early muscle cars did.

As for the Stock/Original debate. I've been thinking hard on what I really consider "stock" and "original". Do you have the same style paint, same wheels, same basic exhaust (not bigger or free flowing), no custom radior or interior, original engine with original intake? If you do, then to me it's stock. If you've got custom paint or anything performance-wise installed, then it's not stock. I'm not counting consumables here, like brake pads or winshield wipers or tires or batteries.

Original to me means a survivor you find in the garage that still has it's first battery and tires on it. This is also, to some, what a survivor is.

There are companies out there that make $$$ on the older car generation crowd who sell batteries, windshield wipers and tires that are exact replicas of the 60's and 50's cars original factory pars. To me, that's nuts.

It's my car, I'm going to modify it as I see fit to meet my needs/wants. Depending on the person, and we've all seen the pictures out there that prove it, the results can be a bit interesting.

okfoz

You hit on something, and I am sure you understand it but I want to explain this to some of the others. From 1900 thru the 1960's Car companies were free to make whatever styling choices they wanted. As an easy example, There was no regulations on bumpers until September 1972 (1973 model year) so moving forward all cars had to have 5mph bumpers.. Before that they had bumpers, but did not have to be as effective. This in effect I believe had a hindrance on the car companies styling... SO more or less we went to style to bland in the 70's because the government mandated it.

This is what happens with REGULATION.

IMissMy86TA

But many LOVE regulation to protect us all!! its for the children! we must do it for the children!
If we don't like you smoking we will ban you from everywhere (I dont smoke) and if you dont care if you use a seatbelt we will make you even if its your life.. etc.
dont want to carry health insurance? dont you dare! we will "tax" you if you dont. dont even get me started on taxes...

okfoz

Did I strike a nerve?

IMissMy86TA

could be...

okfoz

Welcome to the TEA party buddy...

I guess Libertarian fits in there too...

kymmee

I have to agree with you-the stock/modified rules at the Nats are confusing. Also depends on who you get at the tech line. Some of them are more knowledgable than others about 3rd gens. I dont think you should be put in modified if you dont have the correct valve stem caps. That is being a little picky, but I guess they have to draw the line somewhere.

okfoz

THAT is exactly why I have my stash of Gray caps

kymmee

Would you like to sell a set of four?

IMissMy86TA

I wont be classified but yeah I am fiscally conservative

okfoz

I have 5, so right now, no... I will take $10,500 or you can just buy me this car http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...84856041&Log=0

and we would call it even

John

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

It's an interesting discussion, with so many variables. ...I think a lot of what Sofa said is accurate. Times change and things come and go. Sometimes they come back. Sometimes they don't. There's no formula for what hits and what doesn't. You can't multiply car age, by inflation, factor in originality and hit it with a multiplier to find out what it'll be worth. Take every car from 69. How many have appreciated like the Camaro? None. I mean NONE. ....and the value of an original, a survivor, and a total modded car also varies. Some cars are worth more original, some more as a mod. I think a solid, clean complete thirdgen, whether survivor, mint original, or restomodded, will be worth decent money someday, whatever that means. However, I don't think they'll ever get appreciation numbers like what we're seeing out of the first gens (and others) right now.

To the OP......here's my take. There's almost a 100% guarantee that if you build/modify/restore the car the way YOU want, you'll enjoy it for as long as you have it. .......If you maintain some sort of originality, and make choices from an investment point of view, I doubt you'll enjoy it quite as much. ...and then, 30 years later, after being luke warm and vanilla about it for all those years, you still have to hope it's valuable, which is 50/50 at best.
.....what I've done, which is the way I've always wanted, is to build the MY car the way I think GM SHOULD have built it. If you're not a thirdgen fan, you'd really have to look to see the mods. Lowered on all new suspension. swapped in a t5 (t56 someday) mated to a cammed LTR L98 (heads someday). Stock, but tweaked interior. Subtle changes and emblems. Pinstripes thicknesses are exaggerated a little. Custom gauge faces done in a conservative design, nothing crazy. Stock 16" Iroc wheels with the machined surfaces polished. ....it never fails to stir the emotions of people that had an Iroc in high school, and they always tell me they love that I left it original!!! HA!....man there ain't NOTHING original on this car!!!!! LOL.

GCrites80s

Keep in mind how also how few different cars were available in 1957 in the USA. Maybe 15? Or even 10? That's what put so much focus on the '57 Chevy. Now there's hundreds of different cars and trucks sold each year.

"You Drive an IROC" by AxCx is another song about 3rd gens.

PAFORM350

PAFORM350

That form is sweeeeet

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Sofa - where is that 57 now?