chazman

iTrader: (4)

Okay, no crying!

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/cto/4386434116.html

chazman

iTrader: (4)

What a cornucopia of original GM parts!

Mint wheels, original factory muffler/tailpipe assembly, powertrain, etc.

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

What a shame!!!

Van Nuys born

Weird looking damage.... Does a t top fold up that bad if it just rolls over ? I'm thinking it went off a cliff or something ?

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

I'm thinking,he went under a trailer.

Van Nuys born

That's a possibility ..... it doesn't look like it slid on it's sides.

jrhaus76

Clear title my ***.

Van Nuys born

FormerL69

iTrader: (2)

Weird damage. It looks like it slid under something sideways, impacting on the passenger side given how the A and B pillars are collapsed. However, the passenger seat is in tact. Strange. I agree there's no way this car has a clean title.

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

.

Van Nuys born

That's probably why it's a clean title.... pre salvage titles.

I bought my 94 chevy truck back after a guy ran into it parked and totaled it, and it was salvaged titled.... around 2002 in Ca.

JC1992rsconvert

ive seen some decent wrecks growing up in a tow business nut i have to admit this is new. it looks like to me that something might have fallen on it but then again it could have also have gotten run over but an unloaded tractor trailer maybe a flat bed but either way i doubt those are original tires. and as for title idk

chazman

iTrader: (4)

What makes you say that about the tires?

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

My brother in-law slid sideways into a stump, flipped a T-top and landed flat on the roof 15 years ago. Very similar damage minus the door jamb. A pillars are weak and raked back, not designed to hold any weight. Wife rolled a hardtop about 20years ago. Roof gave about 4" in the center. I took a high lift jack and got it straight enough to put a windshield back in and drove that old SC for another year before I traded it off. God, I hope my daughter inherited my driving genes.

Eric-86sc

iTrader: (18)

Ill look at it from an obtimist perspective. The car was wrecked over 20 years ago, if it was not wrecked it would probably have been beat to death and eventually scrapped. By the wreck happening, many hard to find original parts were preserved.

cs80camaro

My body shop guy who flips cars from insurance auctions told me how sometimes in the 90ies Harrisburg (live in PA) would goof up and send clean titles back. None of the ones I bought from him tho lol.

FryeDaddy

iTrader: (1)

Oh yeah, it needs some work alright. lol glws

((Mike))

iTrader: (1)

At least its red. I hate red.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

What do we think? Save it or strip it?

I mean, it would need every steel body panel, other than maybe the driver's door replaced. The A-pillars would require some excellent craftsmanship, new glass, roof etc. Fifteen to twenty grand? More?

On the other hand, the amount of mint, near new parts this car could generate would be staggering. Every piece, component and fastener would command top dollar.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

I think it'll buff right out. But seriously, 10k miles or not, I wouldn't want it. I wouldn't in good conscience be able to sell it to someone either. Looks like some great parts though.

Van Nuys born

Parts car.... but too much money. If ? it did roll over... how long did it stay running ? not good.
You'd need to put it up on a lift and really check it out and that's probably not going to happen. It needs to be wholesale priced.

Eric-86sc

iTrader: (18)

I would use the car to turn a $1000 roller into something special. Anything can be fixed with the right amount of money but the car would probably never be 100% when fixed. Not to mention the huge hit a future seller would take when trying to resell.

IROCgiraffe

iTrader: (3)

This entertains me.... "I bought back from State Farm and the MO title is clean & clear"

Yeahh.., No.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Yup. This is the parts car you buy, if you are trying to do a proper restoration on a tired IROC-Z.

FormerL69

iTrader: (2)

I'm all about saving third gens when possible or reasonable. However, IMHO given the damage and the fact that there's not much unique or rare about this car (other than the low mileage) I say strip it and use the parts on another car that is not totaled.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, I agree. But in order to impact the 3rd gen universe, ALL of those parts need to be used on ONE restoration.

JC1992rsconvert

i say that about the tires because if something would have fallen on top of it it would have blown them out but either way wit hit sitting in storage for so long they probably dry rotted on bottom and when you go to put air in them they would blow out that way they look like they have been sitting for awhile but like i said i doubt those are the original tires the rims might be if it didint roll over

ev305tpi

iTrader: (3)

The problem is that you couldn't fix it and have a legit all-original 10k mile car, it'll always be "fixed", and I dont think that body is something that can be fixed and corrected... Assuming things like the steering wheel, wheels/tires, motor and trans etc are all still 10k mile fresh, it would make a good parts car. But as mentioned above, if the car did roll over, the motor would definitely be questionable, as oil didn't get where it needed to be for some period of time... My guess though is that it slid under a trailer Buford T Justice style...

It's a shame, looked like a very pretty car prior to the accident. It's a $3500-$4000 car to the right person as a parts car. There are some very nice similar non-wrecked cars in the mid-high teens with similar miles, turn-key ready to go right now.

Van Nuys born

Has anybody contacted the owner about the cause of the accident ?

Duane's 91 Z/28

iTrader: (1)

I just checked Craigslist and the ad has been flagged for removal.

KMK454

What a difference 20 years makes... if this was a firstgen in the same condition/mileage, it would be on its way to Barrett-Jackson to pull down $50k+ and the new owner would do a full restoration despite the extreme difficulty, cost, and over-saturation of firstgen Camaros at local shows.

But this is a thirdgen, so instead it's the perfect parts car. I would love to get some spares off of that thing. Tail lights, front turn signals, interior bits, undercarriage, etc. The motor would be great to swap in to a V6 or TBI V8 RS.

And my guess is that a tree fell on it.

jrhaus76

Best guess yet. Tree.

I like your over saturation comment. I agree. I have always been a first gen fan but as of late, I'm pretty much over them. Now, I have been working on a guy at work to sell me his driver condition 67 327 4 speed coupe but I really feel I'll never search for a 1st gen to buy. I'm really growing to appreciate early 2nd gens. And of course an undeniable love for my IROC. . Goes without saying tho!

Van Nuys born

The affordability of 3rd gens is way cool IMO..... like was mentioned, if this 10k mi car was a first gen or any number of other cars it would have been gone long ago and for probably alot more money.

That's one experience I've had quite a bit of with weekend cars ( 911's and Hot Rods ) that cost 3 or 4 times more of your hard earned money.

I have just as much fun in my Iroc that didn't cost anywhere near as much.... in fact maybe more fun because of that fact... and it's way more drivable than the other cars I've owned.

I also like that younger people can afford them.... take them to the Drags and fix them up and stuff. Nothing like the energy they bring.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I'm pretty much done with 1st gens as well. Unless it's a mint rare model, like Z/28 or something, I don't even bother looking at them anymore - I just walk right by them.. I mean, how many chromed out, red '69s can one person stand to see.

The affordability of 3rd gens is a double edged sword. I mean that's why I have three of them, I guess. But when you compare their value to say, 2nd gen Trans Ams, they are still pretty low. Try to buy a nice 1979 W72, T/A 6.6, 4 speed for less than $20K, And they go up from there pretty quickly. I mean, even the common '79, 6.6 Liter, (Olds 403), which you could barely give away 10 years ago, are now in the $10-$20K range for a nice one. It's common for enthusiasts to spend $30-$50K restoring one of these properly, nowadays.

I drove this car on the Mecum auction block last year, anyone see me on TV?








This was a no expense spared, superbly restored, very rare, 1978, Y82, T/A 6.6, 4 speed with a 150,000 miles on it. Guess what it sold for?


Just guess.........




$68,000. Yup, that's correct.


On the one hand, that's great. On the other, how much fun can you have with an old car worth that much? Actually, I did have fun driving that '78 around for 45 minutes. But of course, it wasn't my car.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Charlie thats the car I read that article on, I'm sure of it.... Amazing what it sold for...

The other note I'll add is that this squished red IROC really needs to find the right home. I think of some of the parts I have that I've tried to sell. A car like that can be very difficult to part out or sell, because the vast majority of people just aren't doing 100pt restorations on thirdgens yet. The car is a gold mine no doubt, and could be a good investment possibly to sit on for parts, but right now the market is pretty small for what that car has to offer. would be an awesome car to rehab another rare IROC, maybe a player's car or something..

scottmoyer

People aren't doing the high end restorations on the 3rd gens yet, because a restoration costs money and there are too many cheap people that won't pay the price to restore the car. With that, who will make quality restoration parts if they know that very few will buy the parts? I find it odd that NPD has Fox body Mustang parts available, but not 3rd gen parts. When asked why that was, I was told it's because the Mustang owners are willing to pay to fix and restore their cars!!!!

FinallyGotMyZ

Ouch. Does that mean that they are misinformed and that there *are* third gen owners willing to pay, or, based on his experience, too many third gen owners really aren't interested in restoring their cars in the "right" way?

scottmoyer

From what I understand talking with marketing folks at these places, I was told that they frequent the most popular message boards looking for a target audience. TGO is the largest 3rd gen community on the web. NPD stated that there was a large demand for a certain Mustang part, somebody made it, and it sold very well. Another part was needed, somebody had it made and it sold very well. Manufacturers look for these trends before opening up multiple product lines.

Ask Hawks how many parts they paid to have created and how the sales of those parts have been. I looked at having the original molded hood pads recreated, but only a few people responded that they would pay the cost. Many people on this board have said they wanted a TGO tshirt. Years ago, I had some shirts made up by a quality screen printer and I struggled to sell 150 shirts. Okfoz put many hours into designing a new shirt based on the complaints heard about the ones I created. If he sold 200, it would be a surprise. Four of them, I bought!!!! This is on a forum of 100k registered members! Too many members are not willing to spend their money to buy the correct parts for their car. If they can throw 4th gen parts at it, that's better than fixing it correctly.

GCrites80s

As somebody who has just recently gotten involved with Fox through ChumpCar, it's unbelievable how many outlets there are for parts, how cheap they can be and the amount of support available for those things. Just a couple months ago I was able to pick up an all-Fox magazine at the supermarket. Granted, almost every story was about turbo 5.0s which doesn't do a ChumpCar team any good but could you imagine an all-thirdgen magazine sitting at your local Kroger, Safeway or Ralph's? Mustang people spend. And frankly, their cars need more stuff than thirdgens anyway. The suspension is marginal and they've got roll center problems. The engines take all these bolt-ons, whereas with thirdgen boltons besides exhaust and runners don't do much until you have a cam. The stock brakes really suck. The wheels and tires are small and many people do 5-lug conversions. The lenses get messed up. Nevertheless, all this Ford being more expensive stuff isn't true with Fox when you compare part to part.

I'm not trashing Fox; we work hard so that we will be able to race one. There's simply more profit potential with them for an aftermarket manufacturer due to the slightly older design as compared to a thirdgen. And there's more Mustang guys out there (fact) and they are also arguably more passionate overall than thirdgenners. I've known enough Mustang guys over the years to know. Thirdgenners are into music, booze, pot, R/C cars, dirt bikes, NASCAR, whatever. Meanwhile, Mustang guys think about Mustangs 24/7.

FinallyGotMyZ

Do you think it's because there are still so many used parts out there? I just wonder if that might be part of the problem, that there are enough quality used parts out there that new reproduction stuff isn't needed yet. As for myself, I am in a tight spot financially, as I have three kids and all the $ responsibilities that go with them, that I can't afford at this juncture to pay an exorbitant amount of money for something. At this point, good, used parts are better for my wallet. It's not that I don't want to spend more, I just can't, always. I don't know how we fix this problem, that we can't get good, quality replacement parts made for our third gens.

FinallyGotMyZ

With the exception of music, I'm not into any of the rest of that stuff. I think about my Camaro almost all the time, lol. Wonder if there's any way to change that perception you mentioned in the quote above...

chazman

iTrader: (4)

As cheap as it's claimed that 3rd genners are, a portion of us will pay TOP DOLLAR for exact - and I do mean exact reproduction parts. How long have we been asking for a correct molded hood insulation? I'm in for two. The LS Conteur re- upholstery kits don't even have bolster fabric which is even remotely close to the factory stuff. I'm not dropping $700 bucks on something incorrect. Nope! How about those Goodyear Gatorbacks? I'd be in for 1 or 2 sets if they cost no more than the Mustang version.

When I need new parts, I will first try to to go with original OEM GM parts, even if they cost more. If not available I will go with EXACT reproduction parts. If not either of those, I'll go with the best used parts I can find.

Yes, I agree, as a community, we cheap out sometimes. But not all of the venders are going out of their way to provide truly correct parts. Personally, I won't pay top dollar for what I consider to be no more than a 50% - 75% correct part. Don't bother, because I don't even want them.

You want me to pay top dollar? That part better damned we'll be indistinguishable from the factory piece in every way - not some "close enough" knock off.

GCrites80s

The other thing with Foxes is that the parts interchangeability is much lower than a 3rd gen, so yes that's a big factor. There's a lot of parts on the 79-86s that might fit the later cars but are wrong. Same way with trying to put 4cyl parts on a 5.0. So while a V6 3rd gen might have different springs sways and brakes than an IROC or WS6, not everything is different like comparing a '81 4cyl Fox with a '91 GT. Also tons of 4cyl Mustangs turn up at the yards as compared to late 5.0s. And the 5.0s that do come in get cleaned out fast. Foxes get saved more than ours do because people can pick up the phone and have a bunch of nice, new cheap parts fast.

AND, they've been buying parts consistently since the '90s. Whereas a lot of people ran their 3rd gens into the ground during those days. Fixing up 3rd gens has only been big for a few years. And a lot of times when people built 3rd gens in the '80s and '90s people just put standard Chevy parts, as in stuff that could work on a '55 or a Chevelle or a Nova while the Fox guys were buying specific Fox parts.

GCrites80s

For example, I compare the Facebook posts of my F-body friends with the Mustang friends. Sure both post family pix and such, but the F-body guys will put up all kinds of car and bike stuff "Check out this nuts 1100hp Mercedes" "Watch this guy hit 250 on his bike" "This Sprint Car crash from Knoxville is nasty" Meanwhile the Mustang guys post pix of Mustangs only.

FinallyGotMyZ

You've hit on something here. I know I said I was in a tight spot budget-wise at this time, but you are right - I would maybe pony up a little more dough if the replacement part was identical to what it is replacing. I remember another thread elsewhere on here, where the original poster is unhappy with his IROC-Z badges for his gfx because they look chintzy. If the repro stuff were to mimic almost exactly the stuff it is replacing, you might see more spending. The latter half of this thread has been an interesting discussion, especially for someone like me whose goal is to get the Z I have back to stock as much as possible.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Have to agree with you Charlie. I went crazy trying to restore my 82 and ran into a lot of incorrect crap that I would not put on a DD. I had to have many of my parts made to satisfy my requirements. Even graphics made by a major company that advertises here are all wrong.
I have some of Hawks repros on my car as well as PWD and I have to say that those guys did a great job on the pieces they made. Not cheap, but worth the price of admission.

KMK454

I'm in the same boat. If those repro Gatorbacks come out, I'll pay for them. If I needed a new dashpad, I'd thoroughly inspect the Hawks repro one and if it wasn't up to par, I'd try to find an original piece.

However, if I had the money to restore the car in the original post, I still wouldn't bother unless I enjoyed projects more than the endstate. That car will take serious cash and time; getting the B pillar and roof perfect as well as straightening any frame damage or twist will take time, money, and serious expertise. And let's not forget repainting; chances are it will need a total redo unless you can find and pay somebody good enough to blend new paint with the original red. My guess is it would take somewhere in the vicinity of $25 to $50k to restore it right.

If I was looking for a low mile, original IROC, I'd sooner take some of that cash and go choose from some of the pristine survivors out there on the various classified sites. Or, I'd make people like Chazman, Scottmoyer, etc., some generous offers.

scottmoyer

I'm waiting for my offer!!! You did say generous offer, right?

chazman

iTrader: (4)

There are still enough extremely low miles, mint, 3rd gens around, that you can still buy one for much less than it would cost to restore one to that level. And actually, I'd have to say that such condition 3rd gens outnumber their contemporaries, (Mustang, Corvettes, etc.) by a substantial margin.