I'M THE BATMAN

WHOOO HOOOOOO ! lol
I love this car , But

I want one i can mod and drive , Who wants to trade ?

IMissMy86TA

in GTA land the 89 is the most desired year. it was the only year for a GTA to have t-tops and a 5.7 (350). it also has the classic steering wheel and no airbag. It doesnt have the goofy (sorry) pointy nose but the nice one.

I like the one on the bottom better....just saying. I think the one on top is ugly.
You make some good points but here is the main issue... when you customize a car it means that just because you like it, it doesn't mean that everyone else will like it! take my rims for example. They are polarizing. Either you think they look really hot on the car or you think it was the wrong choice. I may like how a TPI looks under the hood and if I find a car has a 4BL I may really be turned off. its not how it is supposed to look to me. I wont buy it even though it may be much faster without the TPI. cool is defined by the person seeing it. These cars are mass produced so they appeal to the masses. Its your car and do what you want. I keep my GTA rims for resale only.

As I grew up in the 70s I saw a lot of people rodding their 67-70 F bodies. if they survived they have more likely than not been put back to factory condition as that is what is desired by the masses. yours may too one day! The masses dream of the showroom car they saw as a teen. not your idea of how it should be. that's not their memory.

eseibel67

In general, 1989 is the most desireable year for third gens.

But for the GTA, it has to 1988. There are differing opinions on whether the radio-control steering wheel and digital dash are desireable, but they are both signature GTA-only items that were available together for only one model year: 1988.

IMissMy86TA

I get that but some owners hate those two features. I don't have the digital dash but I know some that find them very flaky (mileage not working etc and the back steering wheel that doesn't match the shifter etc) yet everyone likes more power.. most like t-tops
flaky reliability never stopped ford owners from coveting the retractable hard top of the 50s though.

IROCThe5.7L

88-89 for me. L98. Serpentine belt. MAF. Prefer IROC at the back of the door. Not a huge fan of the dash and gauges in 90-92.

IMissMy86TA

88 did not have the 5.7 and T tops.. that was 89..

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

Thats intresting. I didn't knowt that about the Firebirds.

For the Camaros you could only get the L98 and T-Tops in the IROC's from 1987-1989.

From 1990-1992 you could only get the L98 in hardtop form in a Camaro.

Also from 1989-1992 all the LB9/T-5/G92 option cars were hardtops as well.

Myfirstconvert

1991.....................

Linson

why?

Linson

wrong. i mean, its your opinion, but that's wrong. and '88 is a good year for F-bodies too. but those two features are poor features. that is my opinion, but alot of people share it and for logical reasons.

1. as said already by IMissMy86TA, those dashes were unreliable.
2. in a performance context, it is quicker and easier to read and process an analogue guage than a digital one.
3. steering wheel radio controls SUCK. constant accidental changing of tracks and radio stations. they sucked then and they suck on newer cars now.
4. surely, the availability of the Turbo Trans Am (based on the GTA) would tend to make 1989 the pentacle year for the GTA - moreso than the largely unpopular digital dash and steering wheel radio controls.

Myfirstconvert

It's blue, rare, topless....My 91 Firebird convert....

Linson

alright...i'm glad you like it (and it is a nice car btw) BUT - for those of us having a serious discussion, YOUR base model Firebird convertable doesn't amount to 1991 being a pentacle year for Third Gens. its nothing against you or your ride, but your logic doesnt follow.

1991 saw the introduction of the Formula Firehawk, which ran from 1991 to 1992, and very few of those were built - fewer in 1991 than in '92. 1991 also saw the introduction of the updated Banshee body style. those would be better arguments for 1991 than just wanting to shoe-horn your own ride into "best year" status.

IMissMy86TA

92 GTAs are rare. only 226 in USA and 48 in Canada

Linson

[quote=IMissMy86TA;5457043]

very hard to argue such subjectivity, but you make it very tempting. is almost as if your saying you dont like filled out wheel wells, aggressive stances or muscular body lines on a car...

none of that has anything to do with the point i'm making.

and this is where i tend to disagree. you say that in the 60's and 70's, people fell in love with the bone stock cars that they saw on the showroom floor. i say people fell in love with the hot rods that the cool guys were modifying and tearing *** around town in, then they went to the showroom. 1st gens and muscle cars of the late '60s are still associated as hotrods in the collective consience of society, and that is why they are popular and valuble today. if nobody ever took a wrench to a '68 Charger, Chevelle, or Camaro - if these cars were left to their typically high-14-second quarter mile times and too skinny tires, they would all be forgotten. Third Gens, rightly or wrongly, have a legacy of having inferior performance compared to their predecessors - and rightly or wrongly, inferior performance compared to there successors. and if we, the Third Gen Community, do nothing to change the trajectory of that legacy, then these cars will continue to be marginalized and eventually forgotten. yes, people like me who were born in 1975 will always adore them, but people of all ages still adore muscle cars of the late sixties and early seventies.

IMHO, skipping the high performance phase, and preserving our cars as relatively slow time capsules from the decade that brought us leg-warmers is shooting the whole idea of increasing Third Gen status in the foot.

its like in this thread - some people seem to just want to call whatever model year they happen to own to be the "most desireable year." similarly, the logic of wanting to preserve cars that were discounted for performance seems to me to come from a place of just wanting these cars to be worth soemething now.

Slater126

iTrader: (1)

It would have to be one of the last five years. 1990-92 v. 1988-89

Pros

Expanded G92 package on Camaros

Firehawk Firebirds

More 1LEs produced

B4C package available on RS

No T-Tops with highest output motors (except the rare PW7 Formulas) (some might put this in the "con" section)

All L98 and most LB9 5-speed cars will have dual cats

Body stiffening measures (glue) beginning mid-1991 or so

Rarer

Cons

Ugly airbag steering wheel

Bizarre yellow instrument markings on Camaro scream "early 90s."

MAP system not as compatable with modifications and may even offer slightly worse drivability compared to the older MAF system

No more Borg-Warner HD rear axle

No more Bilstein front shocks

Love it or hate it rear spoiler on 1991-92 Z28s

Love it or hate it "Banshee" front end on the 1991-92 Firebirds.

Usually, the later the better but here, cost cutting measures and some weird styling issues make this inapplicable to the Third Gens. Overall, even though I own a 1991, I'd probably still elect 1989 as the best year but arguments could be had either way.

Myfirstconvert

Yes, this I know!

eseibel67

For the third time, I would agree that 1989 is the pinnacle year for third gens.

But for the GTA, I would argue that it's 1988. Not because I'm myopic, but because mechanically it had most of the right stuff (unfortunately no rear PBR brakes or N10 converters) and was available with both digital dash and radio steering wheel. I'm not talking about a digital dash that's broken, I'm talking about one that works. And the radio wheel that is commonplace on most all cars today was quite a novelty 25 years ago.

Even though automotive designs improve with time, a big part of playing with old cars is celebrating the quirks of thier respective era. If I had a Model T, I sure wouldn't want an electric starter, I'd want to fire that thing to life by hand crank. 1963 Corvette? Make mine a fuelie so I have something to play with. A 1976 Coupe De Ville had better have a Rolling Stones 8-track cartridge in the dash.

And a sterotypical GTA has a digital dash. You know - like Knight Rider.

Linson

[quote=eseibel67;5457760]

okay. let me apologize in advance if it seems like i'm continuing to beat a dead horse over the head, but i just have a few problems with your logic. as follows:

• 88s had "most" of the right stuff...but didnt the 89s have all the right stuff, particularly the PBR rears and dual cats - things that are still sought today?
• the digital dashes and radio button steering wheels are not (for the most part) remembered fondly today. from what i gather, they were widely used on GTAs for the '88 model year, and widely dismissed by '89. you say back in '88 these features were a novelty. in '83, so was Cross-Fire Injection, but it is avoided today.
• i'm not talking about a digital dash that's broken either. i'm talking about one that works. an analogue guage can be read and processed more quickly than a constantly changing number value.

understood. but you've latched on to some quirky features that could be eliminated simply by choosing an adjacent model year of the same basic car. you're taking features that were short lived by virtue of their undesirablity and calling them desireable by virtue of their being short-lived. and thats fine because rare or unique can = desireable, BUT in the original context of this thread, even if applied directly to GTAs, i think that unique, but undesireable quirks, would still tend to make a particular model year less desireable. and as you said, the good stuff - PBRs and N10 cats could be had on the 89s.

i'm not saying that 1988 shouldnt be the year for you or for anyone else, i just find the argument for 89 as "the best year" to be easier to support - even for GTA's. sorry if this is becoming a circular argument.

i did not know that it was more typical for a GTA to have a digital dash than not.

Knight Rider is not the bearer of any standard whatsoever when it comes to Third Gen Firebirds. not for me anyway.

firechicken1992

When it comes to asthetics, id say '89. I think '69 and '89 are the best years for cars xD.

JacobIroc

For Pontiac - 89, sexy formulas
For Chevy - 85, no annoying *** third break light in awkward places. other than that, 89/90

ez2cdave

All I have to say to end that little rant is "CROSS-FIRE INJECTION" . . . What a Disaster ! ! !

ez2cdave

From a "run for the hills" standpoint . . . "CROSS-FIRE INJECTION !

Tootie Pang

iTrader: (2)

1989 - last year of the classic dash, rear shoulder belts, no air bag.

KMK454

For Camaros, 89-92 are the most desirable years. They offer the best performance, the most desirable options, and come in the most popular configurations (IROC-Z, Z28, 1LE, R4U, B4C, L98, LB9/T5, etc.). Of those, I'd say 89 and 92 are the peak - 89 is the last year of the IROC-Z with the old interior (1990 IROC-Z had the airbag interior), and you could get all the top performance. In 92, you had the heritage edition and also the stiffer body.

ez2cdave

Was that just the "Wonderbar", or was there more to it ?

LeonardS

They used adhesive during assembly, to tighten up the body and lessen the squeaks.

KMK454

Yup. My 91 with 32k miles is pretty solid but the low mile 92 I got to drive was much more solid feeling. May not notice it as much if you're looking at high mile, beat up examples.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

All the 82s didn't have Cease Fire Injection. You could get the LG4 and in a 4spd.

ev305tpi

iTrader: (3)

The 92s with the adhesive bodies drive better than the rest in my opinion without a doubt. Very few rattles and squeaks if any. 92 cars will lead future value in my opinion.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

I think the 82 being the first year of Thirdgens and the 85-90 Irocs are far more collectable than the 92 although no doubt the 92 being superior in performance and ride quality.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I'm partial to '89, for all the reasons discussed. But I do appreciate the structural adhesives on the '92.

pognoot

For me, 1987 is the most desirable year of the GTA:

• L98 offered
• Digital dash
• Awesome overhead console
• tri-spoke steering wheel
• Firebird logo on the center wheel caps
• Best looking AC Delco stereo of all years

roadthrills

Take EVERYTHING out of the equation......'desireable' as a whole IS subjective.
Do you desire blonde, brunette, redhead........
Do you desire bones skinny, tons of fun, or in the middle curvaceous.....
Do you desire a modern condo in the big city or a small cabin by a creek in the woods....

ANYTHING desireable is only made that way through the eye of the beholder.

Now, COLLECTIBLE....is a different story. But I 'desire' a 1984 15th anniversary Trans Am!

Linson

This. Thread. Simply Will. Not. Die.
What a trip down memory lane - I posted a bunch in here.
And, to my eye, it still appears that either myself...or a lot of other people have a fundamental misunderstanding of the implicit utility of this thread.

To some, or so it seems, it’s about an “investment minded” individual who knows or cares “**** all” about these cars, much less about driving them, seeking advice from the community as to what [year] of Third Gen is destined to fetch the most astronomical price when it someday rolls across the auction block. And, I must say, I feel like I’ve witnessed some...very odd calibrations used to determine what constitutes a “desirable Third Gen” in this context. Very odd indeed.

To my eye, the utility here seems more along the lines of: Average person who is interested in owning an American sports car/muscle car for average reasons...seeks the advice of the community on what particular year (and by extrapolation, range of years) represents the best starting point (or mostly stock end point) for their time and money.

Average person & average reasons assumes the following:
Looking to spend $10k or less initially.
Looking to have more power and performance than the average late-model Toyota sedan.
Not opposed to doing some performance modifications, as this is part of the fun.
Is opposed to having to re-make every aspect of the car in order to achieve a somewhat respectable level of performance.

To that end, THE RANGE to look for, with few exceptions, is 1987 - 92.

To that end, with few exceptions, the “desired” trim packages will be (specifically or variants of)
Z28.
IROC-Z.
TRANS AM.
FORMULA.

To that end, it’s hard to go wrong with 1989 in particular, within the above stated trim packages, for a number of objective and widely accepted subjective reasons.

To that end, there is a strong argument for 1992 with the ‘adhesive reinforced construction’ which purportedly greatly reduces a lot of the weird rattles and squeaks these are known for.

This is what I would say to the average person.

To the wealthy investor, I’m saying Firehawk & TTA, obviously, and maybe one or two other, more obscure examples.

To the “investor” who has maybe $3500, and no garage...I don’t even know what we’re talking about anymore.

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Ah , life's ultimate conundrums ; Ginger VS Mary Ann , , , , Chrissy VS Janet , , , , , Wilma VS Betty , , , , Damn , It's all good ! ....... Make mine an 89 TTA please

scottmoyer

One thing that's been overlooked for many years on this board, by me and others that are looking at options, is the recently mentioned G92/TTop/350 package. For years, we've talked about how desirable the 350 auto is, compared to the 305 auto. Biggest engine offering makes it the desirable option. Then a lot of discussions have been around the G92 performance axle package. So many have stated that they only want the G92 axle because it's an upgrade option and comes standard with a few other options, so it's desirable. In 2020, many people look back at the IROC-Z, enthusiast or not, and TTops seem to be a must have for MOST people looking to buy a 3rd gen.

So, to summarize, the desirable options a collector would look for are what make the car iconic. In this case, it would be the IROC-Z, with a 350, G92 performance axle and TTops. The only year you could get all of this on a single car is 1987.

Me personally, I would rather have an '88 IROC-Z in grey with the blue stripe, or an '89 bright red IROC-Z. I guess those cars would have to be a hard top now that I know that I want the 350 and G92 also.

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

Seems like it really depends. I think collectors that will never drive the car have a certain year they like. Some people prefer the earlier cars, some prefer the late 80s, some prefer the 91-92 cars.

For IROCs 87 seems like the best of the early cars. As Scott said you can get a G92 350 with T-Tops. 87 had a 1 year only interior and even the convertibles could be found in G92 5-speed. Some people think the 85-87 IROC wheels were the best, most iconic.

1989 seems to be the year of the later IROCs many enthusiasts fall on because you could get N10 and G92 options on the 305 5-speed and the 350. 1989 had the updated appearance package with updated wheels which some people prefer and still retained the “80s interior” with no airbags. You could not get a G92 convertible in 1989 but 1988 had them with the same updated look. I believe 1988 was the first year of the 1LE.

For IROCs though it doesn’t really seem you can make a mistake. I’ve been seeing 1986 cars with the 155hp carbureted 305 going for good money. Most non collectors just want a car that looks like the one they had or always wanted in high school and have the extra money to pay. Condition seems to be most important.

It seems like to the collectors it’s all about the odometer really. Most of the value seems to be in the odometer. You’ll see perfectly optioned cars get passed over because they have 30k miles and a less desirable color less optioned car will sell for insane money because it’s never been taken for a drive in over 30 years. Hey they aren’t going to drive the car anyways. It also seems collectors will pass on a car that has undercoating. It can be a MINT car in the most desirable color with every option and the car everyone wanted back in the day but if the underside got sprayed by the original dealer they don’t want it.

I think 87-89 seem to be the most desirable for IROCs

1986 seems to be everyone’s least desirable year. Lowest performance and the high mount stoplight on the hatch seem to be killers. At least 1985 had the LS interior, 215hp 305, and was the first year of the IROC.

For me the ultimate would be a 1988 G92 5-speed T-Top IROC Black with red decals loaded with every option... Wouldn’t give a lick about mileage or undercoating if the car was mint... I’d get all the value out of that car!

IMissMy86TA

My personal opinion is the 1989 for the firebirds. it was the only year before the birds the the "nose cone" that had 350 and t-tops so given that most people like that style GTA and that combo...

pognoot

I think the 87 was also the only year for the auto-tilting rear view mirror. Like I always say, the 87 had all the quirky bells and whistles.

stron3

iTrader: (2)

I always had a preference for an '87 IROC, properly optioned. The later years were nice as well, but it always bugged me that it said "IROC-Z" twice on the same side when the Z28 went away.

Jeannie Ernst

Ive owned and 82 with T-tops and and 89 iroc convertible and I'd say 89 definitely!