AussieIROC66

Hahahaha Tell him he's dreaming!

I'm about to pick up an immaculate 89 350 IROC here in Oz with 22500 original miles for $21000au, considering this thing at some stage had to be converted to RHD for about $8000au and before that shipped here for about $6000au ish (including all other costs) .... Then I have a bargain!

I suppose that's about $7000us

okfoz

Scott,
I think what most people do not realize about 1st gens is the vast majority of them have been modified and are no longer stock. So they see the current numbers at the drag strip and people are shocked to find out that most 1st Gens did not nearly perform like that... With a few exceptions of the ZL1 or some odd Aluminum engined COPO car.

In short, the 3rd Gen was no slouch in straight line or handling performance by the time you got to the end of the generation. BUT again, a L03 or LG4 (which most people have experienced in a 3rd gen) is a far cry from a L98 or LB9/M5... Even the 86-89 LB9/A4 can seem doggish in comparison.

John

NCGuy68

Now thats an interesting comment. Don't know where you were during the 1st gen years, but I was there living it. Allow me to give you a example;

I took my bone stock 69 drop-top L78 (396 -375) to the track a couple times. On a set of borrowed rockhard Mickey Thompson 'cheater slicks', I ran several 13.9's and managed a 13.8 with some fancy leg work on the clutch.

Discouraged, I drove it home and removed the smog system, fiddled with the timing and the jets in the 780 Holley carb. A friend let me use his M&H Race Master slicks. Next Sunday I was turning 13.5 with a factory 3:73 rear gear. Some guys called me a '*****' for not spending more $ and get it into the 12's. I ignored them 'cause I was saving bucks to put myself throught college.

Correct me if I'am wrong please, but I've never seen any nearly stock 3rd Gen car run those kind of elapsed times.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

There's been many L98 cars (especially 91-92 Z28s) that ran 14.1-14.2 all stock on street tires, with cheater slicks a 13.8 should be very easy. As a matter of fact, many have done it here on just drag radials. With some good chip work, free mods, and a real set of slicks, a 13.5 shouldn't be out of the question. You must also remember that you're talking about an automatic car, with a 9.3:1 SBC rated correctly at 245HP/345TQ, and 3.23/3.27 gears depending, against a car with a 4-speed manual, an 11.0:1 "gross" 375HP/415TQ BBC, and 3.73s. I'm not sure what a 1st Gen big block convertible weighs, but the 3rd Gen would be a little less than 3,500 Lbs. so yours possibly weighed less. Keep in mind that if L98s came with 5-speeds they'd have been a little lighter and probably quicker. On paper, it looks like the 1st should be so much faster but they just never are without some work. 13.8-14.4 was normal for L78 cars and that was impressive for their time, on street tires you would have been in the low 14s too. What the BBC 1st Gens have over 3rds in terms of power is better potential (more ci, no TPI) and easier tuneability. Every other area of performance though, forget it, and 60s SBCs need not even try. The 302 could give problems around a road course, but our cars handle much, much better. I'm a fan of both Gens, but there are many misconceptions unfortunately.

AussieIROC66

90IROC1

iTrader: (4)

Your not apples to apples with a 375 hp 396 either. My 70 SS Chevelle chocking off the line with a stock 427 ran 13.3 at 108. 108 is a 12.5 or 12.6 if I didn't chock the 4spd and I was running radial tires and 3.31 factory posi. and my car is a little over 4,000 lbs. I would never compair it to a SBC.

NCGuy68

Thanks for your reply Sir, but you really need to learn basic grammer and spelling. I have no clue what 'chocking' means relative to this conversation.

GM never offered a 70 Chevelle with a factory installed 427.

90IROC1

iTrader: (4)

Your a real smart guy! They never offered it with a 540 like it has now either and it was choking. I know gm never put a 427 in a 70 Chevelle. The Original owner blew up the LS5 454 and put that motor in it. Basically what I am saying is compairing a BBC to a SBC is lame there's no compairing the two.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

I think IROC66 was right, we should get back to the topic.

90IROC1

iTrader: (4)

+1 I agree.

NCGuy68

+2...Sorry I digressed.

Slater126

iTrader: (1)

I've seen a lot of crazy activity lately on ebay with these cars, though I'm of the opinion these auction prices may be bogus and therefore unreliable. A seller gets a buddy or two to throw in fake bids in hopes of getting a couple suckers on the hook to start a bidding war. Age-old ebay trick. I definitely don't think that a craigslist nut job advertising his Camaro for 69 grand is something you can point to and say values are increasing, LOL!

The "for sale" section of this very board is probably a good place to monitor how the real world market is doing. There, I note that low mileage original cars sell quickly and for good prices (6-8k generally) and higher mileage and modified cars have a hard time selling.

Frenchican

I can tell NCGuy and I might think alike. I have never made money on a car, nor do I expect to. In fact, I lost over $40 grand on my C5 Vette I just sold that I bought new and modified. I'm lucky enough to buy then build to my expectations and then enjoy the heck out of them. I have over $25K in my 3rd gen and if I sell it one day for half of what I got in it, I will still consider it money well spent.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

as stated already the guy has 2 mint red irocs for sale ..a 86 and a 87 ..he just uploaded the wrong pics by accident...

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

ok, just looking on ebay and the mint 86 with 3,000 miles has dropped from 22,000 to 18,500 buy it now ...wow ...

he also dropped his mint 87 iroc with the 350 with 36,000 miles to 14,900 buy it now ... dam..

just listed is a mint 87 iroc 350 with 26,000 miles for buy it now for 15,000..

so to say the 3rd gen prices are increasing im not seeing it yet ....these are low mile mint cars that are not demanding high prices ..

Damon23

I'm mulling over a nice 86 Yellow automatic car right now. Hard to put a value on it due to so many out there that are all over the map. I know my 80 Z28 is a good car that will go up in value faster but part of me wants one of these bad enough but I dont want to make a huge mistake.

cerberus

Its a buyers market. Economy is a slow road to recovery, unemployment is just now trying to drop.

Those guys selling on Ebay may have money problems or a need for money.

Todays pricing reflects the stresses of the economy, there is now way around that.

The good thing is that we can all see an increase in value of original examples.

After watching BJ I am seeing lots of original cars go for cheap compared to 5-10 years ago.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

money problems ,economy ,whatever ... bottom line is the low mileage irocs are not increasing in value ... for those 3 examples on ebay i can show you plenty more that are not on ebay that are steals for low mileage mint irocs ...

cerberus

I do not agree that they are NOT increasing in value. its my opinion they are but slowly. The market is just now gaining viability and setting standards of what is rare, good condition etc.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

so me showing you facts that low mileage irocs are not bringing good money means anything ?? ive watched the prices of irocs for years and they are getting cheaper everyday ...

heres one for you ...how much do you think a owner should ask for a mint 88 iroc with 17,000 miles ..lb9 with a 5 speed trans..red with gray interior,t-tops fully loaded ..has all original paperwork and window sticker..how much is it worth ??

cerberus

Whoa RAY,

This isnt a pissing match. if you note in my response I said it was my "opinion", I worded it carefully as to allow you the opportunity to "respect another opinion.

You have not brought up any facts. If you want to get into a fact based discussion the onus of providing facts rests on your shoulders, not mine.

But since you have brought up what you consider facts and not opinion I ask you to proffer your facts so we can analyze your statement with your provided facts.

3rd gen value is what I would consider an emerging market i.e. there are still items that need to be defined and in order to set value. On a particular value you have to set a benchmark on risk. Neither of which can be set by any values we have available to the general pubic as of today that I am aware of.


Given the situation I suggest we have differing "opinions" rather than a fact based discussion.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

theres no pissing match ...im stating facts at what people are asking for there low mileage irocs .. if you want to buy a low mileage iroc they are cheap right now, thats all im saying ..

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

here are some facts ...and these are asking prices not what the owners going to get ..

88 iroc with 17,000 miles ...lb9 5 speed car 14,900 asking price

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false

cerberus

Ok, cheap as compared to what?

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

88 iroc with 21,000 miles ...12,500


http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

87 iroc black with 26,000 ...11,000 obo


http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

87 iroc red with 21,500 miles for 12,500 obo ..


http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

87 iroc with a 350 and 26,000 miles ....15,000 buy it now


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1987-...item35b8d67712

cerberus

In my opinion I think the ROI, return on investment, can be benchmarked by the original purchase price of the vehicle new or used, vs. its current adjusted purchase price.
Its my opinion that collectible cars bottom in price then begin to increase in value until they reach this bench mark of its original purchase price minus (-) the time and dollar value (read $=1985 vs. $=2012) you have to increase decrease for economic inflation/deflation.

My statement/opinion says that they are increasing in value but slowly. My analysis is proferred by my opinion that in 1992 you could purchase a used IROC for substantially less than you can now.

What do you think?


If you would be so kind as to answer my question asked previously.

Cheap as compared to what?

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

86 red iroc with 3,000 miles ...18,500



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1986-...item3f123386c5

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

compared to 5-6 years ago ....they have gone down in price...

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

how about a 87 z28 red 33,000 miles 305 tpi reduced to 7,250 wow


http://cars-on-line.com/55921.html

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

87 iroc 350 with 19,000 miles ...12,900



http://www.volocars.com/1987-chevrol...roc-c-2683.htm

cerberus

Ok thats a great start to looking at this. Where is the sale information for those sales 5-6 years ago and how do you adjust for that economic time vs todays dollars? You have to allow for recession dollars, boom vs bust. Recessions are serious business. The dollar does not go as far now as it did then. A good example is gas prices and falling home prices.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

how about a convertible...

1990 iroc convertible red with 23,000 miles ...14,900


http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false

b1k1w1

why would you want them to go up. Its hard enough to get a 60s or 70s at a good starter price and 3rd gens are getting there to. And when collectors get involved you get clones that cost to much. I miss getting a third gen for 500$ and then building it up. Try that with a first gen. Rusted up people ask 5000k and 2nd gen 1k to 2000k rusted. I see the prices going up all the time but lucky 4th gens over shadow and keep them close. If I had to guess 98-02 will be worth the most (not over 1st gen). So hope they stay low so we can have something fun to drive. Even if they are dog slow stock.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

the recession sucks ...but im not going to tell you house prices are increasing because there not ...in the last 5 years they have fallen ..just like irocs ...believe me im not happy about it ...they are just not bringing the money they were ..

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

i hope they stay low to ...im going to buy another one soon ..

cerberus

Ok Ray, this discussion, with you posting current sales at will, is what a court room and scholars call:

reductio ad absurdum


It doesnt prove a point. Good luck. I am finished with this.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

86 iroc with 53,000 miles ... 7,000


http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/cto/2809878766.html

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

it does prove what you can buy a low mileage iroc for though doesnt it ..CHEAP !!!!

Jason444

iTrader: (6)

Isn't that kind of what the Grand National guys did a few years ago? They just decided that they were going to stop giving their cars away. A rising tide lifts all boats.

87rattler

Recently bought an 87 IROC for $10,000, I overpaid, but, the seller wouldn't budge and it was the exact car i wanted. Where I'm from, you need to get it appraised for TAX puposes. The guy told me that Number 1 cars are in museums and that mine was the top of the Number 2 catagory. $7600. This was by the book and not a collectors appraisal. He didn't care what was in it, on it or under it.

87rattler

P.S. He also realized it was worth more than $7600. Its just to illustrate what our government thinks our cars are worth. Never did find out what a Number 1 was worth. Should a smoked him, my car not a number 1.

eseibel67

You paid $988 HST because the appraisal came in at $7600?

Last year my son bought an 88 GTA with 69,000 miles on it. Not perfect, but excelllent condition. Regardless of what he actually paid for it, I told the appraiser to write it up at $1500 so that the HST would only be $195. Transportation office had no problem with that figure because of the car's age.

burnout88

As I have said before most low mileage thirdgens will sell between 7K and 10K. The only cars that will sell for more then that are the really rare and unique cars.

People will ask for a lot more and try to get 15k plus but the cars will probably not sell at that price point. If you want to actually sell the car!! Except to get around 10K for an orginal low mileage car.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

We will be having this exact same discussion in another decade.

IROC#1

Clean car and a fair price at $7k firm. I agree with what everyone is saying..If the mileage is around 10k then the price is closer to $15k. The clean "drivers" sell for around $4-$6k and high mileage ones which need a restoration sell for around $1500. Prices in general are going up.

I dont see clean IROCs or 91/92 z28's selling for $3k any longer and low mileage ones definitely arent going for under $10k.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

you are correct with your pricing ....but ive been watching and buying irocs for the last 20 years and im telling you a 10k iroc was bringing closer to 20k 5-6 years ago ...i was in the market back then and it was harder to buy those low mileage cars and now there everywhere cheaper ..i would imagine its the economy ...im sure there going to go back up,just dont know when..

cerberus

Your saying IROC's you bought were bringing 110% of its original price or better 5-6 years ago?

Unless your a tote the note dealer I am calling total bs on that.