Speed Racer X

I do appreciate your opinion on this. This topic, I have a feeling, can turn into a religious debate akin to PC vs MAC, etc. Perhaps a bad analogy.

The short answer is: because I'll know it's not original.

My goal when restoring this car was to try to remain true to the original as much as possible. I've never restored a car before, let alone, attempted half of the mechanical jobs on this car like I have, so for me it was a project goal.

When I needed a new coil, I could have opted for an aftermarket one, etc but I didn't, I went with the original p/n.

When I needed the exact German, braided, cloth hoses - I could have bought replacements down at the auto parts store from whatever rubber ones they had but instead I sourced the originals.

When I found the fuel pressure gauge in the hood bulge was dead, I searched until I found an exact NOS one, even though others "similar" were available. I even modified the NOS one in the same manner (blacking out the word "oil") just like Carroll did.

When I realized parts of the audio system were missing, I either sourced the originals, got exact NOS ones from Carroll, or bugged the original owner until he coughed them up out of some pile in some back room.

I tried to duplicate originality and the build itself - how something was done, the color, the path, etc. Overkill? Most definitely. I was having too much fun to do it any other way. Was like the first time building a really good model when you were a kid. Except this one I won't take an M80 to. LOL.

I received plenty of suggestions, from friends, the original owner, even from Greg Carroll himself, that when I was repairing or replacing something to "upgrade to this" or "nowadays we would do it this way and with this part" but I didn't want to go that route. Great examples of this are the Jacobs ignition, the Jacobs wires, the Delco radio, etc. But I kept it all original.

Don't get me wrong, there were a few (very few) areas where I said "enough is enough" or "let it go" like the rear hatch struts for example or some of the bolts here and there. I can live with that. If I had no other option, like the solenoid next to the water injection pump, that part I had to upgrade to something newer - which of course I bought from Carroll to at least remain "in the family."

Certainly, if there was a "safety" reason, I'd make that change of part.

Anyway, that's the thought process. Right or wrong. It's OK.

I WILL agree with you about this tail. The OE rubber ones do suck. But I felt that I'd rather have an imperfect but original rubber tail than a perfect fiberglass tail that actually wouldn't really match the not-perfect rest of the car. For originality, the rubber one is fine. If I was building a pure show car, I would have gone with the perfectly done fiberglass tail.

Imagine if someone wanted to repair the crack in the Liberty Bell with a better aftermarket replacement section?! Do you want a perfect bell or the imperfect but historically accurate Liberty Bell?

Another example. Growing up, I almost bought a Buick Regal GNX off the dealer floor. Dad talked me out of it. I bought a Vette instead. If I were in a position today to buy a GNX at some point, I'm hunting for low-molestation imperfect original - not a perfect car with all aftermarket parts.

But to each, his own. As I started, I respect your opinion.

heat seeker

iTrader: (5)

Very well said. Keep up the good work.

Gunnar1

[Another example. Growing up, I almost bought a Buick Regal GNX off the dealer floor. Dad talked me out of it. I bought a Vette instead. If I were in a position today to buy a GNX at some point, I'm hunting for low-molestation imperfect original - not a perfect car with all aftermarket parts.

But to each, his own. As I started, I respect your opinion.[/quote]


Funny you should mention the GNX. That was the same car I almost bought in June of 88. One of the reasons I didn't was my mom and Dad weren't as excited about the car like I was. I remember one of them saying, "It reminds me of a hearse". Of course I was of a different opinion and was interested in the vette stomping power and the black color. The thing that changed my mind to the IROC, I still own today, was that it was going to be brand new and all original.
I'm lovin the details in this thread. Keep it coming.

njmick24

iTrader: (3)

I have alot of respect for your opinion. I cant wait to see this piece of pontiac history some day! Let us know when and where you plan to show it.

Gunnar1

Another good reason to keep your car all original under the hood is because of the smog police. They are tightening the screws more and more. I understand where they are coming from and certainly respect the theory of cleaning up the air we breath and the safety factor. I am concerned, after talking with some rodders at a carshow last weekend, that they may kill the car enthusiasts hobby for everyone in the end. Whether this is part of their intent or not ( I don't think it is their intent.), I heard some people up here in Canada are receiving multiple fines ( some upwards of $8,000 which I would have to see too believe.).

I know I will be keeping mine stock except for some smog legal boltons.

I love all musclecars, modded or original and hope the hobby survives for my son.

Sorry about rambling on but you just seem to stand out as a symbol of all things good about our hobby.

Greg

the209bnr

Very Very nice Bird.. Subscribed

Speed Racer X

Updates...

Sent the OE am/fm/cd to United Radio in NY for a repair estimate. Using a different delco radio my buddy had laying around in the meantime to test the Carroll sound system.

Rebuilt the hatch lift mechanism. The motor housing fractured and the nylon guides broke in pieces. Bought the rebuild kit from TDS. Worked great, although I did have to sand down the kit's nylon guides so the lift mechanism would slide more freely.

Installed new hatch struts that can handle the weight of the OE rubber spoiler.

Wired up and installed the Carroll sound system that came with the car. Wired up the Amp. Wired the board speakers to the crossover. Got the board into the car and wired the amp inputs to the crossover and the mids to the crossovers. Set in place. Has a very clean look when it's done.

Connected the amp power at the battery, installed the temporary delco radio, threw on an antenna and turned on the radio. Turned on the switch for the amp.

Sound system works fine. Of course we'd do it differently today but for 1989, this must have been cool.

T/A

This is awesome, I must say... I'm a bit jealous. either way best of luck!
I'll be sure to follow this thread.

Speed Racer X

Updates:

Wiped down the interior.

Masked off, sanded and painted the door lock surrounds. I had bought new black lock caps to replace the original worn off ones but after taking the door apart and seeing what was involved and what looked like 1 project turning into 3 projects, I said no way. Not opening that can of worms. So, I just painted the OE ones. Came out pretty good.

Cleaned up and "metal-painted" one of the rusty-looking hood gauges. I could have left this alone but the rust just jumped out at me when I opened the hood.

Replaced 5 or 6 underhood screws that were rusty and unsightly. Used oe ones in much better condition that I got off of another member.


Had the original AM/FM/CD repaired this past week. Big thanks to United Radio in NY for the awesome job they did and the rapid turnaround. Everything works great, even the CD Player.

I re-christened the sound system and this 1989 car with....... Motley Crue's "Dr. Feelgood" CD from 1989!!! Talk about some good memories. LOL.

I also tweaked the Carroll Sound System wiring in the back as I had the L/R inputs reversed and everything else checked out ok and in-phase.

Here are a couple of pix of the radio finally installed, working and done. And the button that turns the Carroll Sound System on (Amp).

punkmaster98

iTrader: (5)

this is amazing, the dedication is unbelievable

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

On the doorlocks, chicken!!!! But the paint will look/work just fine!

Now, since Motley Crue is one of my fav bands, I better tell ya Poison didn't make Dr. Feelgood, the Crue did! Gotta for that on to more serious matters...

About that CD player, wow, never ever seen that setup b4! wonder what its from!?!? Its reeeeallly cool looking!

aaron7

iTrader: (7)

Love it!!! Awesome to hear you kept the sound system intact and had it repaired

Speed Racer X

Whoops. Was Motley Crue. Lol.

The CD was a dealer installed option according to the signed sales contract. I wonder what the dealer pulled it out of. Anyway, all the people I talked to in regards to repairing it had hardly ever seen it.

Thank you.

Speed Racer X

Updates.

First time I've had the car on a lift. Geez, I never thought of detailing UNDER the car. LOL.



Good picture of the Trans Cooler with the Carroll kit.



Finally got the monkey off my back and had the original muffler put back on. Well, what I thought would have been quick and easy turned out that the center pipe needed to be replaced. I felt it and saw it when it came off. It was cracked practically down the entire weld line. Guy that owns the muffler shop was able to find one made by Walker and was able to get it to the shop in about 90 minutes.

So the center pipe was replaced and the muffler welded to that and mounted in place.

punkmaster98

iTrader: (5)

I hope in the future this car can make it to thirdgenfest, this car is great

BADNBLK

iTrader: (11)

Looking great! I need to do the same with my exhaust on the convertible. Main pipe is cracked along the seam and can hear it leaking.

91 Droptop

LOL, I do not even have a system yet so I have one huge leak at the headers

Guest

Very cool and you must love thirdgens the way most people love 1st and early 2nd gen Camaros. I can't help but think its a lot of work for such an obscure car though. But in the end, at a show you'll get more interest from knowledgeable enthusiasts than the SS 396's and 69 Z28's. This is like our Yenko. Pretty cool.

CaliChevyLover

I never knew these existed before. Absolutely incredible! (Both the car and your attention to detail) Seems like everyday mine gets worse and worse appearance wise. Very Jealous.

Speed Racer X

MAJOR UPDATE!

With a little regret and after much debate here at the homefront, my son and I are putting the CAR up FOR SALE!

I have taken it as far as I have time for, it obviously can not and will not serve as my son's daily driver, and the car really needs to be in the hands of someone who can protect it and keep it nice. I just don't have the facilities to keep this nice and I want to "pass the baton" to someone who will enjoy it.

Aside from a member here and the gentleman who owns the red VHO, the members of this forum are the first group to know this car is for sale. I will put it on eBay very soon, just to start this process, but I wanted the great members here to have access to it first.

I will make a separate for sale post with all my new pictures and videos but I will also link to this so viewers can see the whole build.

We picked up a '01 Pathfinder as my son's daily driver so I'm not forced to sell this quickly. The car and the money it brings is my son's so I need to be diligent about the offers I receive. I've done my research but I will sell it fairly.

If you are seriously interested in this 1 of 4 car (1 of 2 left), send me a PM and let's talk real numbers.

Thank you!
Randy

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

i can keep it at my house for you and keep it safe =)

91 Droptop

It will be interesting to see what kind of price is set

Speed Racer X

It sure will.... LOL.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

You should really figure out how to hold on to it. You put some effort into getting it right. You should be the one to enjoy it.

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

Do you still take it to Burns for service??I can't believe their still around.

Speed Racer X

I have talked to a tech who has been there since 1983/84 and he remembers this car. Very few humans have touched this car since I've owned it but not Burns. LOL.

My Pontiac G8 is serviced by Burns but just for warranty items. Everything else, I do.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I was scared that your son would get it and wrap it around a tree. I remember all too clearly how heavy my foot was at that age and how invincible I thought I was, and I was always the restrained one in my circles...

I hate for you to sell it after all this, but I really hope someone here can add it to their collection. It's a sweet, sweet ride.

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

Well as a kid my parents let me buy a 79 Firebird and the machine shop were I worked help me drop a 68 400 Pontiac engine in it. The car was definitely a mover. Not all kids have there head up their u know whats. I started regularly going to the drag strip and i can honestly say that car shaped my life as I went on to become an engineer, and lead a comfortable life with a family.

I understand why he is selling it. i am not sure i understand replacing it with a pathfinder.

PAFORM350

Why are you selling this on Ebay? Seems like a shame after all your hard work.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

i wouldnt sell it, no one is gonna take care of it as you would because you restored it. just dont let the kiddo drive it yet unless your with him and able to supervise

Speed Racer X

Believe me, your points are all well taken.

lizardkng

Wow this has been a great read. I love the story here...its a shame you feel the need to sell it...garage it and let a grandchild retire on its proceeds

Gunnar1

90firebird

Sorry to see it go after all of the effort you've put into it. With the special/rareness factor, you might want to seriously consider one of those collector car auctions.. just a thought.

lakin454

iTrader: (2)

Its been a pleasure reading about this. Love the attention to detail you've taken. But now it's a cliff hanger.... what happened, did it sell?

Speed Racer X

Sorry I haven't replied sooner. Between focusing on trying to sell the car and a work trip to the West Coast, I just got back yesterday and getting back into the groove.

Car did not sell. VERY close but no. Not sure what my next steps are.

Several people have mentioned to either wait till Spring and/or take it to one of the bigger auctions. I'm not 100% convinced on the auction idea. It would be cool but I'm not sure if the return on investment would justify the effort and outlay. We really don't have a Mecum or Barrett in our backyard here in NJ so it's not that easy.

If the car brought $5K more at a nice auction but it cost me almost that to get it there, hotels, air, food, fees, etc; it's not worth it. But who knows. I have no experience with that.

91 Droptop

Mecum takes a a good cut,and they will hammer you into taking the reserve off (I use them at least twice per year when they are in FL) Barrett is a huge ripoff stay clear. No offense but you will see 15K for that car at best (in your pocket) car may bring just over that at an auction but with transport and commission that will be eaten away quick. The market is down and the car is not a heavy hitter like a factory car would be, a TTA with low miles will bring the mid 20-30K range, even the older cars are not going for high dollars right now. You have to see it this way, the third-gen is not there yet in collectors eyes, I do not mean to be rude but this is a dealer built super charged car, not a COPO or factory super car. If you can get 13-15K you should jump on it, I have been in the car game over 30 years and I made a ton of money in the mid 90s. I only wish the cars would bring more now, i would buy up every 3rd gen out there, even resto rods are selling for about half of what they cost to build now. I just sold a 69 Z and only cleared about half of what I thought I would in profit, if you can afford to sit on it for about 5 - 10 years you may see that 20K price, good luck.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Hold on to it. Give the market a chance to recover and the third gens a chance to be appreciated.

Speed Racer X

True. Plus documentation and pix nearly to its birth, covered under a dealer warranty at the time AND documented in the Firebird Illustrated History Buyer's Guide (which I suspect makes it a little more interesting than just any Firebird that a dealer threw a supercharger on).

I really do appreciate all the real-world data & advice. Thank you.

Speed Racer X

Replaced a front parking light bulb and put some air in the tires.

Tomorrow, I'm taking her out for some play time.

91 Droptop

Cool, enjoy the drive time

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

Car Show tomorrow in Sewell,on the Delsea Dr.At Murphy's Performance Center

Speed Racer X

Darn, I just saw this. I would have stopped in while I had her out.

I think I'm going to put her in the BOP (Buick Olds Pontiac) show at Atco on 11/3. Will you be there?

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

I was looking for your car!!!!,I took my Hot Rod
to the show.I will be at Atco if my TA is finished.
I'll be looking for you!!!

GenX'Motorsport

If youre gonna be cruising it at all before the sale. It would be great if you could take some video of it running and driving. This car should be well documented in every way..

Speed Racer X

Unfortunately, I won't be there. I even bought all my cleaning supplies to get her ready BUT Hurricane Sandy changed my plans. I had no decent weather time to get her ready this week and my In-Law's shore house in Brigantine took a hit from the storm so I need to go to the shore and help with the cleanup.

Enjoy the show. I really wanted to be at this one.

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

I'm not going either,the Pontiac is still in the body shop,so that show is out.

I'm going to a show in Egg Harbor called the Pumpkin Run tomorrow with the Plymouth instaed.
Brigantine took a big hit from Sandy,hope your families home didn't get to beat up like their neighbors in Atlantic City.

Speed Racer X

New injectors received. May try to pop those babies in this weekend.

David 91RS/Z28

Wow! I never even knew Carrol offered any packages for the f-body. This is amazing and I commend you on keeping it original. I prolly would have opted for just a couple things aftermarket but really really good job! Forgive me if it was answered as I didn't see but someone earlier on the 1st page of posts commented on how much you might have paid for the car?? I was really curious too! No biggie if you don't want to spill the beans though. Definitely a factory beast on a must have collector list!

David 91RS/Z28

Oh, nice G8 as well! I got a silver G8 too!