Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

i've often wondered about the various Firebird submodels (i'm a Camaro guy) and how they rate to their equal counterparts to the Camaro submodels. Additionally which submodels are "above" the others. i searched but havent found any threads on this, if there are by chance simply post the link and close this thread.

for Camaro

Sport Coupe
Belinetta
RS
Z28
IROC

Firebird (to my knowledge)

Formula
Trans Am
WS6
GTA
Sport Coupe

can anyone describe the differences between the Firebird submodels and the "ranking"?

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Camaro Coupe & RS = Firebird Coupe
Berlinetta & LT = S/E
Nothing = Formula
Z28 = Trans Am
IROCZ = GTA

Basically that's the breakdown.
Firebird coupe is your run of the mill basic Firebird, just like a Camaro coupe or RS.
The S/E is a luxury package more then anything, like the Berlinetta, with it's own minor perks.
The Formula is unmatched in the Camaro line up, it's basically the basic body with a few styling cues, with WS6 standard and all of the performance options optional, it can be a stripped down Firebird with all the performance of a GTA or Iroc.
Trans Am is basically the same as the Z28, slightly modified body, slightly nicer interior (usually), standard V8, optional performance parts.
GTA is pretty much a fully loaded Firebird, comparable to an Iroc but generally it's more car then a comparable Iroc.

Of course across the entire line up, the Firebird has things the comparable Camaro does not.

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

hmm i see interesting. so the WS6 is the Formula?

and essentially a formula would be like a Z28 or IROC in a Sport Coupe trim/body? wolf in sheeps skin.

I find it interesting that it seems like the Firebirds had more options.

Dens71TA

iTrader: (5)

WS6 is a suspension option, not a Firebird model. The option RPO for the Formula model is W66.

blacksunshine'91

iTrader: (10)

I get so tired of people thinking the WS6 is something special. It is just a suspension package. That's all! When Pontiac added the Ram Air to the fourth Gens they added it to the suspension package and put badges all over the car with "WS6". Now everybody thinks that if they have WS6 that it is something special. Here's a news flash to those that don't already know it: If you have a Trans Am, GTA, or Formula then you have the WS6 suspension package. Numerous Camaros have it as well. I'm just not sure which models automatically had it or which ones could option up to it. Plain and simple, it is just a suspension package which has been on the F-body platform long before our cars were built.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

Trans Am didn't always have WS6. Formulas and GTAs had it standard, it was an option on the Trans Am.

Camaros never got the WS6 rpo.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

The importance of WS6 is that it wasn't standard on the entry level Trans Am. Much the same as how FE2 wasn't standard on the entry Z28. Both cars had the F41 suspension standard with the top tier suspension optional. While the Formula came with WS6 standard, similar to an Irocz or GTA.

While it's true that it's just a suspension package, WS6 is something that actually improves performance. It's as much of a difference in performance as the difference between a Z28 and an Irocz, which is certainly enough to noteworthy.

WS6 never has been offered on the Camaro. It's a Pontiac code, which has been used on other Pontiac cars. It's always been a performance package, usually suspension related. It just happens that Pontiac included the Ram Air option as part of the package for 4th gens. It's not really anything special, except as a performance package. A Firebird with WS6 usually drives considerably different from one that doesn't have it.

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

boy did i open up can of worms

interesting stuff

but now wasn't the Z28 (at one point) just a handling/suspension package?

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

Options can mean different things in different years, however for Thirdgens the Z28 was never just a suspension package.

I don't really get your point though, the WS6 is NOT a submodel at any point in Thirdgen history.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The Z28 started out as the required 500 "homologues" for the SCCA Trans Am racing series in 1967. The rules required that any car in the series had to be a "production" car, with "production" defined as 500 identical cars actually built and distributed for sale to the general public. In 1967, nobody had ever heard of RPO codes, outside of real hard-core geeks and GM people; all we knew was that if you walked into the dealer and ordered that, you got a race car. It ONLY came with a 302 engine (SCCA had a 5.0 liter limit at the time), solid cam, Holley 4-bbl, Muncie 4-speed, no radio, no air, bench seat, the only available option was a heater (which most of them didn't get). Z28 was really the first RPO code that made it out of the factory and into public consciousness, so to speak.

("Homologated" in Italian is "Omologatto", as in "Gran Torismo Omologatto" aka GTO, there's your trivia lesson for today... although AFAIK the GTO never raced in ANY "homologated" series)

It was UNBELIEVABLY popular. Chevy expanded the program the next year, and by 1969 you could even get it with decidedly UN-RACE-CAR-LIKE options, even including A/C and auto trans and the RS package which at that time had fluff like disappearing headlights. It was THE car to have in 70½ (71), because by then it came with a 350 with that same solid cam and the good heads (186 casting) and good gears and all that, just like the 1st gen 302; that motor had the RPO LT1, and was also available in Vettes, and those with that option had a badge on the hood that said "LT-1" (much like the Z28 had fender badges that said "Z/28"), which ultimately turned "LT-1" into a buzzword. Interesting that people talk about the "LT-1" when the RPO was REALLY LT1, but didn't call the Camaro a "Z/28"; but who am I to claim understanding of what .... HUMANS .... do, anyway. A thoroughly illogical, irrational, and emotional species.

RPO Z28 was discontinued after 74, because of a lack of sales after the OPEC embargo and the early 70s oil price shocks, and crushing emissions and fuel efficiency regulations. It re-appeared in 78 as a boulevard cruiser with the same 180 HP 350 4-bbl that came in Impalas, Vettes, trucks, Chevelles, and everything else. A total turd. It was nothing but some stickers and a fancy "string-wrapped" steering wheel that you had to be careful with or it would literally break your thumbs. (Yes i know people who went to the ER with broken thumbs) The 78 one I had was an auto, and was totally gutless. I also had a 79 that was a little better, since it was a 4-spd, but still pretty lame. I traded that one in on my 83 L69 car. The LG4 was a complete joke, worse than the L48 iin the 70s ones; and the LU5 was even worse, while it had more "power" than the LG4, it ran EXACTLY LIKE the 2.5 in a Citation or something did, which was no real surprise because it was EXACTLY the same system, just twice as many liters and twice as many TBs. I was underwhelmed. The L69 was THE FIRST hint of "performance" under the hood after 1973, and of course nowadays is pretty much as laughably underpowered as its even weaker relatives were in the early 80s.

Oddly enough, Pontiac didn't participate in the Trans Am series until much later; AFAIK they just paid SCCA for the privilege of using SCCA's name on their car. When they did begin running in Trans Am I'm not sure what motor they used or what the homologues were or where ANY of them are now. Which, knowing Firebird owners' fondness for the history of their cars and Birds in general, I'm fairly sure that if there EVER WAS any such thing, we'd hear about it regularly; leading me to suspect that there never were any (although I have no proof), and Pontiac in fact didn't actually race in the Trans Am series until the 3rd gen was introduced. I do recall going to a TA race in about 86 or so and seeing Birds in it, and by that time of course they were running 305s. If anyone KNOWS FOR SURE anything different about the TA and SCCA, that they can back up with PROOF and not just a random magazine article or some "I heard" BS, I'd love to know about it. Especially, what motor they used, and where ANY of the homologues are today.

WS6 was generally the top suspension package in any given year. It meant different things in different years. Nobody really paid it much mind until it appeared as a badge on I guess it was about 98 Firebirds; then it became an ÜBER BUZZWORD, even worse than "LT-1", with every Firebird owner spanking off about their car having it (or not, or wanting it, or wanting to duplicate it, or asking what was better xxxxx or "WS6" etc.). Which would be funny if it wasn't so pitiful. You see it on this board all the time; "my 305 TBI Formula WS6" and such. :barf:

Yeah it all kind of is a can of worms...

eseibel67

Nice post.

And the WS6 was quite a marketing package, introduced for the 96 MY. Created quite a buzz, even though it was a suspension and appearance package. It sure gave the impression it was hotter than a vanilla Formula or TA.

blacksunshine'91

iTrader: (10)

My sentiments exactly!!!!

xcalibur

My '82 T/A came std with the 14" wheels, and WS4 suspension.
It was a real pleasure to drive on 400 mi and greater trips.
In 1982 Car and Driver rated the T/A as the best handling car in the world, but I'm not sure if it was eqpt w/WS6 or not.

My '89 Formula 350 came with WS6 and rode like a buckboard
in comparison. You could literally feel paint lines when you crossed them.
After the first 400 mile trip across PA's notorious roads, I was missing the WS4. I'm not sure the handling improvement was worth the extra punishment.

Dens71TA

iTrader: (5)

WS4 is the RPO code for Trans Am! The standard "Level II" suspension on the T/A was RPO Y99. 14x7 rims, soft spring rates, 14:1 steering box, 30mm and 12mm sway bars, and rear drum brakes.

xcalibur

Thanx for the correction. No wonder so many people are confused.

scottmoyer

Another correction...

The 1969 Z28 was not available with AC or an automatic as stated above. It was a performance package car that included:
302cid V-8 engine with bright accents, dual exhausts, Z28 emblems on grille, front fender and rear panel, special front and rear suspension, rear bumper guards, heavy-duty radiator and temperature controlled fan, quick ratio steering, 15x7-inch wheels with trim rings, E70x15 special white letter tires, and special paint stripes on hood and rear deck.

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

why don't i add more fuel to the fire.

If the Formula had the performance of a GTA or Trans Am, but the looks of a coupe, then could one say that the B4C Camaros would be somewhat similar?

scottmoyer

Yes and No. The Formula was available to the public and the B4C wasn't. If it wasn't for that little issue, then you'd be correct.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

To build a Camaro that would be equivalent to a Firebird Formula, you'd have to start with a Camaro coupe body. Think a Sport Coupe without ground effects, but with a Z28 hood and spoiler, FE2 suspension, 16" wheels with 245/50ZR16 tires, and a standard V8 with an available TPI 305 or 350. A B4C is just a Z28 without hood blisters, the tall spoiler, and badging.

The Formula is about budget "no-nonsense" performance, with a unique styling. The B4C is about selling a cheap Z28 to law enforcement that doesn't want the styling.

Jk_Under

Whats the real difference in Z28 and the IROC-Z?

gt4373

Not Much

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

In what year?