jaygt

iTrader: (4)

its a 1989 black 350 formula. it has the original paint and gatorback tires. 21000 miles. rear wing has cracks. is this car rare at all or anything interesting about it. what would be a good price to offer for it.
i will have pictures of it by the end of tomorrow.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

It is worth nothing!
uh where is it? LOL
is it a TTop car? w gray cloth interior? Black dash
I think they made 4,400 ish 89 350 formulas

sloick

buy it.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

lets see those pics!

Jason E

It is only worth about $7,000. Please forward the name, address and phone number of the owner...I'd like to offer them at least $10,000

stoutz28

i would buy it formula 350's are rare i think they made less of them then the 89 GTA

Dusk2600

Definatly worth a good buck

jaygt

iTrader: (4)

i offered him $2000 and he said he would think about it. last sticker on the plate was 1996. in two days i will offer hime $2500. i will let you guys know what happens.
hard top. like new grey interior original radio pbr brakes oil fill plug in axle.

well he listed it online and it got into a bidding war. i just barely got it yesterday.

jaygt

iTrader: (4)

its my friends father and i have been asking him to sell it forever but hes doesnt seam to want to let it go lol

jaygt

iTrader: (4)

im hoping to pick up the car tomorrow. the 20 year old tires are not looking to good. lots of cracks. the milage is in kilometers because its a canadian car. around 21 000 miles.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Where are the pics of the whole car?

jaygt

iTrader: (4)

i will have them soon. i paid a lot more than i wanted to but hard to pass up. the last year the cars licience plate was stickered was 1996.

jaygt

iTrader: (4)

anyone know production numbers for 1989 350 formulas for canada?

i think they made 402 formulas for canada in 1989
i think they made 66 350 cars- ta, gta ,and formulas for canada in 1989.
not sure if its possible to find out how many formula 350 where made for canada in 1989 but would be cool to know.

Guest

Bring some other rims and tires if you get it and plan to drive it, I would not drive it on those. Way too risky.

89rs454

Lets see some whole body pics please, this sounds good.

IMissMy86TA

yup...those look like the tires I drove mine home on ouch.. abt 100 miles. changed them and the rims... if you got for about 3000 and she is in nice condition you got a steal.

jaygt

iTrader: (4)

done deal towing it home tomorrow morning. original owner. he had a mustang same time he bought firebird. searched out one of two 350 formulas available at the time. he wanted to keep the firebird nice and then just stopped driving it in 96. last year it was stickered.

repainted early 90's under warranty because of clear coat fading on hood. dealership put door decals in wrong place on door lol.

i put the gta wheels on back because original tires are all cracked.
put gta tail lights on because one was cracked by vandal.

one of 16 black formula 350 cars made for canada in 89. 66 formula 350's total for canada in 89.

it does need some little things but as i have extra funds i hope to bring it back to original condition.



original owner. he said he has a picture of himseld with the car from 20 years ago so i took a pic now for before and after

89rs454

Looks fantastic from what i can tell, how much did you wind up paying for it?

jaygt

iTrader: (4)

think i paid to much but its something you just dont see around here where i live.
when i get it home and the snow goes away i will get better pics. next will be preping engine for startup. small amount of oil in pistons and valve covers? anyone know how to drain gas tank?

89rs454

Stick a hose down in it and siphon the old gas and drop the tank and replace the old fuel pump while you at it.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Siphoning doesn't work too well with our cars... Technically the gas tank is supposed to be tamper proof. The easy way to remove old gas is to look under the hood on the drivers side, there's a red wire with a black terminal on the end next to the fuel pump relay. Disconnect the fuel line from either the fuel rail or back by the tank, plumb to your waste catch can, and run a healthy jumper wire from that red wire to the positive side of the battery. Wait until fuel stops pumping out, and replace the fuel filter, then you're good to go.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

those taillights arent original

scottmoyer

Did you not see his post above where he swapped the taillights due to one being broken by a vandal?

jaygt

iTrader: (4)

got it back to my place. snow storm glad i got the flat bed.
thanks for the info on the fuel line and running the fuel pump. that is exactly what i will do.

TheMuskr

looks like a real slick car! congrats

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

I'd like to see some cleaned up daytime pics not covered in snow. If it is actually clean with 21K miles then thats a great car to hold onto. Mileage means nothign however if it's been abused throughout it's life, and the pics I've seen so far don't really show it's good side. Do you have a garage you plan on parking it in?? It would be a shame for a car like that to sit in snow and be in the elements all the time!

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

^^ agreed

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

Looks like a nice car, make sure to clean her up and post some better pictures for us

David M

Congrats on your purchase, I hope you have fun with it!

89rs454

Hey man have you ever tried siphoning gas out of our gas tanks? It's so easy, theres no stop line like on the newer vehicles i could get a hose in a Thirdgens gas tank soaked in gas in a minute.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Actually, I have. I've also pulled somebody's abandoned hose out of a filler neck because it got caught while trying to siphon the gas.

Either way, it's still easier and faster to let the stock pump do the work.

Jason E

Abuse is one thing...neglect thankfully is easier to deal with My Trans Am, I believe, sat outside 24/7 until I picked it up last March. That's a long, long time to sit through New England winters, hot summers, exposed, under a car cover etc. I am amazed how little the interior and mechanicals suffered while sitting outside for that long. Much of the paint is somewhat fried, but thankfully its time outside didn't age the driving experience...it drives awesome.

With that said, I hope that car finds its way inside...its a vehicle that's absolutely worth keeping nice.

Good luck to you with this car...awesome find.

eseibel67

Wow. Yes, Formula 350 is rare around here. Low mileage and clean body seams makes it even more so.

My guess is that you didn't overpay if the guy didn't give you an immediate "no" when you offered him $2k.

Nice car.

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

If you want to get a set of original tail lights, i'll buy those 2 piece ones off you... If interested, shoot me a PM.

jaygt

iTrader: (4)

i took the 91 tail lights off one of my 91 trans ams. they are like new with no defects so i am keeping them close. the gta wheels are from same car.
the car was never abused. you can see original 21 year old tires on the back of the car and they are at around %50 tread. zero cracks at top rear of window openings.
a car like this driven 7 years on the original tires in that condition is a good sign the car was taken care of. it was garaged kept until 4 years ago. thats the bad part but only reason he sold it was the family needed the room on the driveway and garage.

Iroctopless

Congratulations on the purchase. Like everyone else, I can't wait for some good pics! Interior too if possible. Just finding any 3rd gen in Canada that's not rusted out (gotta love salty winter roads) is a challenge. So far she looks pretty sweet. Being garage kept most of it's life and the low km's probably helped save this one.
When you're ready to throw that first tank of fresh gas in, I'd go with highest octane you can find and also put in some injector cleaner additive. Could be some good varnish build-up in the fuel system. Oil change and grease job too. Treat the weather stripping with some silicone emulsion and new wiper blades. Easy to forget until you need them and then they fall apart and the wiper arms scratch the windshield. Time to spoil this baby.

PS; I'd check the strength of the antifreeze to prevent a freezing. Or better yet a coolant system flush. If it's original, the anticorrosion properties wil be dead anyway.

jaygt

iTrader: (4)

i tried to start it yesterday. i put a pump hose into gas tank and nothing came out. i put battery in car and it says car is empty. is it possible the gas evaporated? i put 10 gallons of fuel in it now freash. not sure how much tank holds i think 15.

i changed plugs and oil filter. when i turned car on i did not hear fuel pump go on. it turns over but does not start.

how can i jump fuel pump to see if it even works. bypass everything straight to pump. i have gotten info but hard to understand. i am posting pictures of the fuel relay and wires by battery. im hoping this will help. i dont want to fry something testing it.

JT

iTrader: (1)

If the fuel pump does not prime for 2 seconds on the initial key on, that's not normal. It could be a bad fuel pump, bad fuel pump relay, ECM issue or circuit between any of those items. There's an oil pressure sensor that is used to deliver power to the fuel pump as secondary circuit in case of the fuel pump relay failing. It's common myth that this is a fuel cut-off device, it's not. So if the fuel pump relay had failed, cranking the engine over should build up oil pressure to trigger the oil pressure sensor to switch on and supply power to the fuel pump. Thus, unless there's a multiple failure, it's looking like a bad fuel pump or circuit.

You can use a fused wire from the gray wire to a positive 12 volt source to bypass the relay. This will supply direct power to the fuel pump. If this does not work, there's a break in the circuit on that side, the ground side, or the bad fuel pump.

jaygt

iTrader: (4)

on the plug i am holding up? what wire is the grey wire? the one on the far right looks kinda grey?

JT

iTrader: (1)

Yes, on the far right. It might be tan. I believe it was changed to gray in later Third Gen model years but it's still the same principle.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Looks like you've got Orange, Red w/Black, Green w/Yellow, Black w/White, and Tan w/White. If that matches what you've got in person, then the Tan w/White wire is the positive side of your fuel pump. A jumper from the positive side of the battery to that terminal bypasses everything but the wiring from that connector to the fuel pump. With 12v + hooked up the pump should run if it's any good.

You could always unplug the fuel pump harness from the bulkhead connector above the axle and see if you've got voltage at the C terminal. You can also connect battery voltage to terminals A and C (C is positive) on the pigtail going to the gas tank, if the pump is good it'll run.

jaygt

iTrader: (4)

thanks for the help. so if it does not work at grey wire i can unplug just above the rear end. what wire can i put direct 12 volts to there? when you say c is that what will be stamped right by the wire.

also do you know what that yellow fuse is for right by my battery in the picture i put up.

jaygt

iTrader: (4)

also i put a paper clip connecting the first orange and second red wires and cranked engine before. could this have caused any damage? i should of read up more.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Look closely at the terminal shells and they're usually marked with tiny letters near each terminal. The harness above the axle has three terminals, the black and tan wires are ground and power for the fuel pump, pink or purple is the fuel level gauge.

The red wire is where the orange wire is connected when the relay is switched off, so no harm there. Still, it's unwise to go jumping wires unless you're sure of what you're connecting. A fused jumper wire is probably a good idea, replacing a fuse is easier then replacing the car when the harness goes up in flames. Even replacing a melted wire can be a pain in the @$$.

The yellow fuse by the battery is for the fuel pump, ECM, etc. As long as it's good, don't worry about it.

JT

iTrader: (1)

Drew is right that jumping the red and orange wire on the fuel pump relay would not have caused harm. That red wire runs to the ALDL connector terminal G for fuel pump testing. When that terminal is given positive power, with the relay connected, a connection is made (through the relay) to the fuel pump. Since the orange wire is a hot source, if the relay was connected while you jumped the two wires the fuel pump should have ran if it's any good and if the circuit is OK.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

That doesn't quite jive with the wiring diagrams I have on file. Of course my files jump from 87 right to 91, and the car in question is somewhere in the middle, so it might not be 100% accurate for this car.

The 87 diagram uses the older fuel pump relay, and the diagram shows the red w/black going to terminal G on the ALDL. BUT, the way it's wired, that terminal is the normally closed contact on that relay. In the off position, the orange and red w/black wires are connected. When the relay is energized the Orange wire is connected to the tan w/white wire instead and the fuel pump is powered.

Jumping the red w/black wire to anything isn't going to power the relay in any way.

On the later cars the fuel pump relay is wired differently. Basically on the early cars the relay switches between connecting power to the ALDL (OFF) and power to the fuel pump (ON), and on the later cars, the relay switches from connecting the red wire to the fuel pump (OFF), and power to the fuel pump(ON).

Hopefully that makes sense.

JT

iTrader: (1)

Drew, the red wire (connected to G terminal) goes to the fuel pump via the (bottom) closed contacts inside the relay. From your post, you understand that point.

However, the top contacts are open when the relay is not energized. "E" is the orange wire and would be a 12+ source. The contacts shown are open. You see that "E" does not normally go through to the fuel pump or the red wire because the top contact is open, thus breaking the connection.

When the relay is not energized, red and orange wires are actually not connected. If they were, the fuel pump would run. You see that "E" circuit is open, therefore, it does not connect to the red wire or the fuel pump.

Therefore, if the relay was left connected, and you jumped orange (a 12+ source) and red wire (runs to the fuel pump) together, the fuel pump would run.

1985:


1988:


Not powering the relay. The reason why I made the comment about the relay being connected to work, is because of it's pass-through connect (red wire) to the fuel pump wire.

This is all based on the 1985 and 1988 Pontiac Firebird shop manuals and is the interpretations I have from those diagrams.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Here's a quick diagram... I'm not going to dig out the scanner for this one, so deal with my squiggly MSPaint drawing.

Orange is 12V constant from the battery.
Gray or Tan w/White is from the relay to the positive side of the fuel pump.
Green w/White / Black w/White are the ECM control power/ground to switch the relay.
Red or Red w/Black is the ALDL or the pigtail near the relays.

Hopefully the illustration makes it clear(er) why the red wire doesn't control anything on earlier cars.

I'd strongly suggest buying the correct manual for your car, if for no other reason then to have accurate wiring diagrams.

JT

iTrader: (1)

I don't have a 1986 or 1987, but have a 1985 and 1988. Those are what I'm basing from.

The red wire is connected to the G terminal. It also is a pass through to the fuel pump, via the fuel pump relay, via closed contacts. You take a 12+ source (which the orange wire is) and connect it to the red wire, which passes through the fuel pump relay and onto the fuel pump, the fuel pump is going to run - based on the diagrams I posted above from the service manuals.

The reason why I mention the G terminal, is because that can be used to power the fuel pump if it's supplied a 12+ source. It has a pass through the fuel pump relay to the fuel pump itself. Jumping the orange wire and red wire at the relay would act as a shortcut.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

That's interesting, because the 87 Camaro Service Manual doesn't show A & D connected at the same time. It wouldn't be the first time the connection inside the relay wasn't shown correctly. I suppose a person could figure out how it's actually wired with some simple testing on the car.