GM has offically dropped the Pontiac brand.
05-02-2009, 09:15 AM
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
does anyone have an idea as to what will happen to Pontiac Historical Services? 
If Pontiac dying will kill PHS then it might be a good idea to use them while you can.
If Pontiac dying will kill PHS then it might be a good idea to use them while you can.
05-02-2009, 10:08 AM
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
I didn't believe it at first, but the simple answer is China. I was talking about how GM should have got rid of Buick to a guy at work and he told me they wouldn't do that because they are one of the number one brands in China. Buick actually sells more Buicks in China than in the US. I think Buick sales may be declining in China now due to the state of the economy...but I would say that China is the reason Buick is staying.
05-02-2009, 10:16 AM
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
Still makes me cry seeing the Gen 5 Camaro commercials..
When a Firebird should be sitting right next to it, shame.
I love Buicks too, but there was so much other fat to cut! Pontiac
could and should have stayed.. They were on the rise of becoming
what they once were.. a giant.
Maybe its a Bowtie conspiracy! haha, kidding folks!
When a Firebird should be sitting right next to it, shame.
I love Buicks too, but there was so much other fat to cut! Pontiac
could and should have stayed.. They were on the rise of becoming
what they once were.. a giant.
Maybe its a Bowtie conspiracy! haha, kidding folks!
05-04-2009, 09:35 AM
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
The problem PHS will have is there will be fewer and fewer cars to actually support. Up until the demise of Pontiac there would have been an increase or at least a constant. Since PHS is independently owned and run. I do not think anything would happen to it, not immediately at least....
Keep in mind that Buick, Like Cadillac makes more money per car than Pontiac. They can charge more for the car because it is more upscale, It is more or less an "Economical Luxury" brand.
In 1930, Fortune magazine summed it up best: "Chevrolet for the hoi polloi, Oakland (later Pontiac) for the poor but proud, Oldsmobile for the comfortable but discreet, Buick for the striving and Cadillac for the rich."
FYI - "hoi polloi" is from the Greek to indicate the masses...
I think the problem is the middle class is disappearing, Not to intentionally go political, the problem is there is a Government need to pin the Masses against the "Rich" If they can convince enough people that no one should be rich we can become a Socialist nation where the government acts like Robin Hood and takes from the Rich to give to the needy. Ultimately what will happen is there will no longer be any drive to excel or better oneself because the government will supply everything for us, the country will continue to spiral out of control and eventually we will all be poor, kind of like the old USSR where it worked so well (not a lot of difference between Socialism and Communism).
IF you stop and think about it, if the government would have simply lowered, or had a tax holiday until on GM & Chrysler recovered and allowed it to continue to function they would have probably survived better, and brands would not be dropping off like old scabs. Unfortunately the "Masses" would have cried about why "Big business" was getting a tax break, when in effect it could have saved thousands of jobs. So people are now out of work because the Government in power wants to make it look good.
I am done.
John
05-04-2009, 09:42 AM
#55
Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
The problem PHS will have is there will be fewer and fewer cars to actually support. Up until the demise of Pontiac there would have been an increase or at least a constant. Since PHS is independently owned and run. I do not think anything would happen to it, not immediately at least....
Keep in mind that Buick, Like Cadillac makes more money per car than Pontiac. They can charge more for the car because it is more upscale, It is more or less an "Economical Luxury" brand.
In 1930, Fortune magazine summed it up best: "Chevrolet for the hoi polloi, Oakland (later Pontiac) for the poor but proud, Oldsmobile for the comfortable but discreet, Buick for the striving and Cadillac for the rich."
FYI - "hoi polloi" is from the Greek to indicate the masses...
I think the problem is the middle class is disappearing, Not to intentionally go political, the problem is there is a Government need to pin the Masses against the "Rich" If they can convince enough people that no one should be rich we can become a Socialist nation where the government acts like Robin Hood and takes from the Rich to give to the needy. Ultimately what will happen is there will no longer be any drive to excel or better oneself because the government will supply everything for us, the country will continue to spiral out of control and eventually we will all be poor, kind of like the old USSR where it worked so well (not a lot of difference between Socialism and Communism).
IF you stop and think about it, if the government would have simply lowered, or had a tax holiday until on GM & Chrysler recovered and allowed it to continue to function they would have probably survived better, and brands would not be dropping off like old scabs. Unfortunately the "Masses" would have cried about why "Big business" was getting a tax break, when in effect it could have saved thousands of jobs. So people are now out of work because the Government in power wants to make it look good.
I am done.
John
Keep in mind that Buick, Like Cadillac makes more money per car than Pontiac. They can charge more for the car because it is more upscale, It is more or less an "Economical Luxury" brand.
In 1930, Fortune magazine summed it up best: "Chevrolet for the hoi polloi, Oakland (later Pontiac) for the poor but proud, Oldsmobile for the comfortable but discreet, Buick for the striving and Cadillac for the rich."
FYI - "hoi polloi" is from the Greek to indicate the masses...
I think the problem is the middle class is disappearing, Not to intentionally go political, the problem is there is a Government need to pin the Masses against the "Rich" If they can convince enough people that no one should be rich we can become a Socialist nation where the government acts like Robin Hood and takes from the Rich to give to the needy. Ultimately what will happen is there will no longer be any drive to excel or better oneself because the government will supply everything for us, the country will continue to spiral out of control and eventually we will all be poor, kind of like the old USSR where it worked so well (not a lot of difference between Socialism and Communism).
IF you stop and think about it, if the government would have simply lowered, or had a tax holiday until on GM & Chrysler recovered and allowed it to continue to function they would have probably survived better, and brands would not be dropping off like old scabs. Unfortunately the "Masses" would have cried about why "Big business" was getting a tax break, when in effect it could have saved thousands of jobs. So people are now out of work because the Government in power wants to make it look good.
I am done.
John
but I prefer we Hang Barney Frank and his cohorts
05-04-2009, 12:34 PM
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
What is more interesting is there is a large local dealer that is attempting to Purchase Pontiac from GM. Jim Waldren http://www.jimwaldron.com/ from a second hand source is attempting to ralley suppliers to get into a venture to purchase Pontiac from GM...
Things may not be all dead after all...
BTW, before going to the link I supplied I do not think there is anything on the website about it....
John
Things may not be all dead after all...
BTW, before going to the link I supplied I do not think there is anything on the website about it....
John
Last edited by okfoz; 05-04-2009 at 12:37 PM.
05-04-2009, 04:13 PM
#58
Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
What is more interesting is there is a large local dealer that is attempting to Purchase Pontiac from GM. Jim Waldren http://www.jimwaldron.com/ from a second hand source is attempting to ralley suppliers to get into a venture to purchase Pontiac from GM...
Things may not be all dead after all...
BTW, before going to the link I supplied I do not think there is anything on the website about it....
John
Things may not be all dead after all...
BTW, before going to the link I supplied I do not think there is anything on the website about it....
John
05-04-2009, 04:29 PM
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
The problem PHS will have is there will be fewer and fewer cars to actually support. Up until the demise of Pontiac there would have been an increase or at least a constant. Since PHS is independently owned and run. I do not think anything would happen to it, not immediately at least....
Keep in mind that Buick, Like Cadillac makes more money per car than Pontiac. They can charge more for the car because it is more upscale, It is more or less an "Economical Luxury" brand.
In 1930, Fortune magazine summed it up best: "Chevrolet for the hoi polloi, Oakland (later Pontiac) for the poor but proud, Oldsmobile for the comfortable but discreet, Buick for the striving and Cadillac for the rich."
FYI - "hoi polloi" is from the Greek to indicate the masses...
I think the problem is the middle class is disappearing, Not to intentionally go political, the problem is there is a Government need to pin the Masses against the "Rich" If they can convince enough people that no one should be rich we can become a Socialist nation where the government acts like Robin Hood and takes from the Rich to give to the needy. Ultimately what will happen is there will no longer be any drive to excel or better oneself because the government will supply everything for us, the country will continue to spiral out of control and eventually we will all be poor, kind of like the old USSR where it worked so well (not a lot of difference between Socialism and Communism).
IF you stop and think about it, if the government would have simply lowered, or had a tax holiday until on GM & Chrysler recovered and allowed it to continue to function they would have probably survived better, and brands would not be dropping off like old scabs. Unfortunately the "Masses" would have cried about why "Big business" was getting a tax break, when in effect it could have saved thousands of jobs. So people are now out of work because the Government in power wants to make it look good.
I am done.
John
Keep in mind that Buick, Like Cadillac makes more money per car than Pontiac. They can charge more for the car because it is more upscale, It is more or less an "Economical Luxury" brand.
In 1930, Fortune magazine summed it up best: "Chevrolet for the hoi polloi, Oakland (later Pontiac) for the poor but proud, Oldsmobile for the comfortable but discreet, Buick for the striving and Cadillac for the rich."
FYI - "hoi polloi" is from the Greek to indicate the masses...
I think the problem is the middle class is disappearing, Not to intentionally go political, the problem is there is a Government need to pin the Masses against the "Rich" If they can convince enough people that no one should be rich we can become a Socialist nation where the government acts like Robin Hood and takes from the Rich to give to the needy. Ultimately what will happen is there will no longer be any drive to excel or better oneself because the government will supply everything for us, the country will continue to spiral out of control and eventually we will all be poor, kind of like the old USSR where it worked so well (not a lot of difference between Socialism and Communism).
IF you stop and think about it, if the government would have simply lowered, or had a tax holiday until on GM & Chrysler recovered and allowed it to continue to function they would have probably survived better, and brands would not be dropping off like old scabs. Unfortunately the "Masses" would have cried about why "Big business" was getting a tax break, when in effect it could have saved thousands of jobs. So people are now out of work because the Government in power wants to make it look good.
I am done.
John
your comparing socialism and communism to stalinism. there were other determining factors which led to the demise of the soviet union but communism itself was not the cause.
but for the sake of keeping it car related i wont get political. lol
anyways, pontiac kinda had it coming, it hasnt had a big hit in a while. the g8 was supposed to be a good car but they didnt really have much to fall back on when gas prices hit all time highs. they were just too occupied making fast and nice looking cars when people actually needed more crappy looking hybrids.
05-04-2009, 10:49 PM
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
Funny thing is i recieved a letter from GM today stating not to worry that Pontiac would be around until the end of 2010. They would cover any warranty that was remaining. Also i could continue to have my car serviced at any GM dealer. Funny thing is that my Trans Am is the only GM car i have bought since 1990 and i have not had it serviced at the dealer in at least 15 years. I guess they keep good records.
05-05-2009, 04:39 AM
#61
Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
Funny thing is i recieved a letter from GM today stating not to worry that Pontiac would be around until the end of 2010. They would cover any warranty that was remaining. Also i could continue to have my car serviced at any GM dealer. Funny thing is that my Trans Am is the only GM car i have bought since 1990 and i have not had it serviced at the dealer in at least 15 years. I guess they keep good records.
you got the standard carbon copy BS letter
05-06-2009, 01:23 AM
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
I do not believe that PHS is at any risk in the near future. A large portion of thier business is related to the docmenetation of classic cars. There are large numbers of vintage Pontiacs in collections and on the road. Most of those vintage cars will still be around for many years to come, as the car hobby is stronger than ever. One stratigy that PHS could consider to survive in a world without Pontiac will be to expand to offer services on other brands besides Pontiac. If they expanded to General Motors Historical Society, they would never run out of business. Just a thought... It will be cool to see someone purchase the Pontiac line from GM, and continue to produce cars under that historic name. One has to wonder if those cars would mirror the existing lineup, hopefully not, or if they will build specility cars in limited numbers. Since a complete sale of the brand outside of GM will limit the amount of shared technology with the rest of the GM line, Pontiac will have to be totally reinvented. They could build retro style muscle cars, lisensed to use GM running gear provided by GM Performance Parts, and still maintain a GM flavor. If they want to build a retro style Trans AM with a 502 Big block Chevy engine, sign me up. It will be interesting to watch for development.
05-06-2009, 09:01 AM
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
PHS is actually unique. Apparently GM in all of their wisdom has discarded much of the information on older cars. PHS was fortunate enough to gather as much information that GM was discarding about Pontiac for future collectors.
At one point GM actually attempted to steal back the information from PHS that PHS had a legal agreement to... The reason I was told that GM did not want one brand to have more information than the other brands (more or less).
John
At one point GM actually attempted to steal back the information from PHS that PHS had a legal agreement to... The reason I was told that GM did not want one brand to have more information than the other brands (more or less).
John
05-06-2009, 09:22 AM
#64
Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
PHS is actually unique. Apparently GM in all of their wisdom has discarded much of the information on older cars. PHS was fortunate enough to gather as much information that GM was discarding about Pontiac for future collectors.
At one point GM actually attempted to steal back the information from PHS that PHS had a legal agreement to... The reason I was told that GM did not want one brand to have more information than the other brands (more or less).
John
At one point GM actually attempted to steal back the information from PHS that PHS had a legal agreement to... The reason I was told that GM did not want one brand to have more information than the other brands (more or less).
John
no wonder why GM is in the mess they are in. GM is run by far left morons
Last edited by KITT1983; 05-06-2009 at 12:03 PM.
05-06-2009, 11:00 AM
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
It sounds like PHS's history as a company is as interesting as the Pontiac cars.
05-26-2009, 12:25 AM
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
Does anyone know what will happen to all the part molds, advertising materials (sounds like PHS has most of this?), etc.? It seems to me that up until a few years ago, GM was still producing parts for our cars (unless it was just old stock that was readily available)... so where did all the GFX & bumper dies go?
05-26-2009, 08:39 AM
#67
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
The Solstice will not live on as a Chevy. The GM people lose 10k per unit on it.
05-26-2009, 09:27 AM
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
Does anyone know what will happen to all the part molds, advertising materials (sounds like PHS has most of this?), etc.? It seems to me that up until a few years ago, GM was still producing parts for our cars (unless it was just old stock that was readily available)... so where did all the GFX & bumper dies go?
John
05-26-2009, 10:46 AM
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
It will still live in Europe as the Opel Speedster. Though it doesn't look exactly the same.
05-26-2009, 07:46 PM
#70
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
I think buick will get the solstice, if chevy gets anything, it would be the G8 ST, Chevy already has a two seat sportscar
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/7140/untitledhi4.png
http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/ima...tiac-G8-ST.gif
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05-26-2009, 08:20 PM
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
PHS is actually unique. Apparently GM in all of their wisdom has discarded much of the information on older cars. PHS was fortunate enough to gather as much information that GM was discarding about Pontiac for future collectors.
At one point GM actually attempted to steal back the information from PHS that PHS had a legal agreement to... The reason I was told that GM did not want one brand to have more information than the other brands (more or less).
John
At one point GM actually attempted to steal back the information from PHS that PHS had a legal agreement to... The reason I was told that GM did not want one brand to have more information than the other brands (more or less).
John
In Canada, historical documentation on Canadian GM products is available back to 1980 (but unfortunately, the data in the US is more hit-and-miss). Vintage Vehicle Services is run by GM and I haven't heard what its status will be, but there is enough demand on all vintage GM products that I think they will be maintained - for Pontiacs as well.
05-27-2009, 03:40 PM
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
Now, with GM cancelling the franchises on so many dealerships (Dodge is doing that as well), there may no longer be a local dealership to go get parts from! This is terrible.
The local dealership where I bought my Firebird new closed up a couple of years ago. The local Chevy dealership bought up their franchise and now sells Chevrolet, Buick, Pontiac and GMC. I could at least go there to find replacement parts that aren't too common. If the small-town local dealerships get closed up, then where will we go?
Someone will surely see a market for this and put all of that type of thing in a searchable online database so that you can buy over the internet.
The local dealership where I bought my Firebird new closed up a couple of years ago. The local Chevy dealership bought up their franchise and now sells Chevrolet, Buick, Pontiac and GMC. I could at least go there to find replacement parts that aren't too common. If the small-town local dealerships get closed up, then where will we go?
Someone will surely see a market for this and put all of that type of thing in a searchable online database so that you can buy over the internet.
05-27-2009, 10:23 PM
#73
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
i too am deeply sadden about the situation, I look at my pontiac as a pride thing....something that does have historic significance. Something that was built in the USA. Something that is of originality, as it was built with a purpose. It's gonna feel pretty odd knowing that i cant find parts for my baby anymore at my local pontiac dealership.
The popular ones that i know around here are Dan Wolf Pontiac, Haggerty Pontiac, and Howard Pontiac. Now will possibly be closing soon? I just recently found out where my car was sold in the local IL region back in 1989. I shall take a trip there soon since i found out that the dealership still exist, however instead being only a Pontiac dealership, the place now sells chevy, buick, and pontiacs...
Forever in my heart will i be a pontiac fan and forever i shall curse the fools that made GM this way...those of the people in the head offices who decided to take Pontiac off the american markets along with the government regulations that deemed Pontiac's fate...
The popular ones that i know around here are Dan Wolf Pontiac, Haggerty Pontiac, and Howard Pontiac. Now will possibly be closing soon? I just recently found out where my car was sold in the local IL region back in 1989. I shall take a trip there soon since i found out that the dealership still exist, however instead being only a Pontiac dealership, the place now sells chevy, buick, and pontiacs...
Forever in my heart will i be a pontiac fan and forever i shall curse the fools that made GM this way...those of the people in the head offices who decided to take Pontiac off the american markets along with the government regulations that deemed Pontiac's fate...
05-27-2009, 10:52 PM
#74
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
Not sure if this is a good place to post this, but since many people were wondering if there would ever be another Trans Am produced, it just might happen. I just got the latest High Performance Pontiac magazine and it has an article about a 2011 Trans Am produced by ASC. Yes it's based on the 2010 Camaro, but modified by ASC. According to the article, they proposed the design to GM a year ago. ASC seems to be very serious getting this to become a reality, and if they can't get it to go through GM, they said it could be done completely aftermarket. It's design is based off of the 70-73 Trans Am, and while I'm sure a lot of people wont like it, it's the closest TA to reality at the moment. Pick up the magazine, or do a search for ASC Trans Am to get some pics. The magazine article goes way more in depth though compared to what I could find on the internet.
05-27-2009, 11:51 PM
#75
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
I LIKE THAT! If i had a new Camaro I'd take to to ASE and they the trans-Am treatment on it. I am sad though that Pontiac as a brand will be gone. I was seriousley considering trading my 2 cars in and getting the G8 ST (ElCamino) when it came out, but that never happened, so GM wont see any more money from me. My best friend just bought a new G6 and loves it.
You know what killed Pontiac though? NAMES! GM killed all the great, historical names Pontiac's had and everyone knew. Sunfire, GrandPrix, GrandAm, and Firebird were all gone, replaced with G5, G6, and G8. You ask anyone to picture a Pontiac GrandPrix and they can do it, ask them to picture a G5 and I'll bet they can't. People are less likley to buy something they're unfamiliar with.
05-28-2009, 01:53 AM
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
Looks like the chances of a new firebird went the way of a new Cuda. I think I prefer this rendering. If that 220 million powerball comes my way ... 
http://www.motorpasion.com/images/ca...am_concept.jpg
It is a bit sad. But when you open the hood on a Vibe and see Toyota and Denso everywhere, have a Holden GTO, and the Solstice/Sky and several other rebadges, you know GM has been grasping at straws for awhile. The company needed its own identity. You don't do that by renaming someone elses product.
Thank goodness for aftermarket parts for those of us not too concerned with restoration. I'll stick with my chevy though.
http://www.motorpasion.com/images/ca...am_concept.jpg
It is a bit sad. But when you open the hood on a Vibe and see Toyota and Denso everywhere, have a Holden GTO, and the Solstice/Sky and several other rebadges, you know GM has been grasping at straws for awhile. The company needed its own identity. You don't do that by renaming someone elses product.
Thank goodness for aftermarket parts for those of us not too concerned with restoration. I'll stick with my chevy though.
05-28-2009, 09:46 PM
#77
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
Why not? I'm a Camaro guy, but would love to see fifth gen trans ams on the street, even if they had to be produced aftermarket. One wonders what will happen with things like licensing; i.e. logos, images, etc., after production ceases. I too am saddened by the passing of Pontiac, though. I once owned a '67 Bonneville Convertible that I wish I'd held on to . . .
05-28-2009, 10:09 PM
#78
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
yeah, i just niticed on the piture I posted there are no Firebird or Pontiac logo's. I hope they at least allow ASE to put the chicken on their converted cars.
05-29-2009, 09:17 AM
#79
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
Why not? I'm a Camaro guy, but would love to see fifth gen trans ams on the street, even if they had to be produced aftermarket. One wonders what will happen with things like licensing; i.e. logos, images, etc., after production ceases. I too am saddened by the passing of Pontiac, though. I once owned a '67 Bonneville Convertible that I wish I'd held on to . . .
Also it is not ASE it is ASC, (American Specialty Cars) originally American Sunroof Company... Since they originally started as a Sunroof car from the ZF fame from the 82-86ish Camaros...
John
05-29-2009, 01:02 PM
#80
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
I was wondering about licensing issues as well, and if they use the Trans Am name will they have to pay royalties as well (probably). Nothing has been finalized as far as drivetrain goes, but they were toying around with the idea of turbocharging the Camaro V6 engine. ASC also made a Bandit design that they proposed to GM with a different front end, and rear, but everyone seemed to like the Blue/White version. A bandit theme could possibly be made though if there is interest. According to the article, they said the car would be shown at SEMA or even at the Woodward Dream Cruise in August. I was planning on going since I live close to Detroit...it would be sweet to see it there. Hopefully they can get this produced!
06-07-2009, 03:58 PM
#81
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
GM drops the popular budget sportscar (F-Body) in 2002 after the human error known as the 4th gen fails to sell (which some of us foresaw the minute we laid eyes on it).
GM puts all their chips into gas-guzzling SUV's.
George Bush allows exclusive tax credits for those same gas-guzzling SUV's.
(fast forward a few years to the economic meltdown)
GM goes bankrupt.
Am I the only one who sees a clear cause & effect here? Basically it's a series of wrong moves, over and over again; a failure of leadership at many levels. Today's GM *sucks* and they are but a shadow of the GM of yesteryear. Pride replaced by fear. They brought this disaster onto themselves with their own greed and short-sightedness. I have no pity for them at all. I only feel bad for the laid off workers who go back to flipping burgers, if they're lucky. Let GM move to China for all I care, since that's their focus now. They are no longer an American company; they are a multinational, global company, and the United States is just one little market in a long line of markets. GM plants are opening in China as numerous of them close here. Tell me that's something to be proud of. Is that the American way? If I ever think about buying a new GM product again, I hope that someone is around to talk some sense into me! No Firebird? No thanks. I'll have to wait and see about the ASC aftermarket kit, but the 5thgen is not a good looking car, and will not sell any better than the 4thgen did. Just remember me on that one.
GM puts all their chips into gas-guzzling SUV's.
George Bush allows exclusive tax credits for those same gas-guzzling SUV's.
(fast forward a few years to the economic meltdown)
GM goes bankrupt.
Am I the only one who sees a clear cause & effect here? Basically it's a series of wrong moves, over and over again; a failure of leadership at many levels. Today's GM *sucks* and they are but a shadow of the GM of yesteryear. Pride replaced by fear. They brought this disaster onto themselves with their own greed and short-sightedness. I have no pity for them at all. I only feel bad for the laid off workers who go back to flipping burgers, if they're lucky. Let GM move to China for all I care, since that's their focus now. They are no longer an American company; they are a multinational, global company, and the United States is just one little market in a long line of markets. GM plants are opening in China as numerous of them close here. Tell me that's something to be proud of. Is that the American way? If I ever think about buying a new GM product again, I hope that someone is around to talk some sense into me! No Firebird? No thanks. I'll have to wait and see about the ASC aftermarket kit, but the 5thgen is not a good looking car, and will not sell any better than the 4thgen did. Just remember me on that one.
06-07-2009, 05:40 PM
#82
Moderator
Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
I see kizz has been sold on the media propaganda regarding the end of the 4th gen and also the SUV issue.
To set the record straight, GM did not discontinue the Camaro and Firebird due to sales! There were new safety requirements for 2003 that the 4th gen car could not meet. Per GM, it is cheaper for a factory to be built from scratch than to completely retool. The bean counter side of GM contractualy agreed with the CAW that if the Ste. Therese factory closes, the vehicle/s produced there need to be discontinued for a minimum of five years. This was agreed to before 1992 and GM had no idea that the gov't was going to mandate safety requirements so stringent for 2003. That's why the concept was unveiled in 2006. In model years, GM was able to play games with the announcement of a new Camaro.
Now, the reason for no Firebird is because GM started their restructuring years ago and sees the Firebird as another set of parts and costs for a similar vehicle. Chrysler did the same by eliminating the Plymouth brand which was almost a duplication of Dodge. The minor differences between the two cars only brought production numbers down and parts costs up as the two cars don't share all the same parts.
Please don't talk about GM not giving us the cars the people want when that's exactly what they did. Trucks and SUVs are what we wanted and that's what GM gave us. All other manufacturers followed. The Toyota Tundra is a V8 based full size truck now. Toyota and Nissan have both increased the size of their trucks and SUVs and the engines to compete. GM did put alot of focus on trucks and SUVs because they were selling and selling alot. It's not GMs fault that gas went to $4+/gallon and that the banking industry crashed. Without people being able to get a loan, they can't get a car!
We, in the US, have the roads and parking space available for the larger vehicles. I prefer them over the small vehicles that have only one crush zone, the entire car. The Smart car and others of the same size do not hold up well in crashes. They have a 5 star crash rating, but that's at a 20 mile per hour head on or 40 mph into a wall. A 40 mph head on and the car is toast. I'd walk away in my truck with little to no injuries. Let Europe keep their tiny cars!
To set the record straight, GM did not discontinue the Camaro and Firebird due to sales! There were new safety requirements for 2003 that the 4th gen car could not meet. Per GM, it is cheaper for a factory to be built from scratch than to completely retool. The bean counter side of GM contractualy agreed with the CAW that if the Ste. Therese factory closes, the vehicle/s produced there need to be discontinued for a minimum of five years. This was agreed to before 1992 and GM had no idea that the gov't was going to mandate safety requirements so stringent for 2003. That's why the concept was unveiled in 2006. In model years, GM was able to play games with the announcement of a new Camaro.
Now, the reason for no Firebird is because GM started their restructuring years ago and sees the Firebird as another set of parts and costs for a similar vehicle. Chrysler did the same by eliminating the Plymouth brand which was almost a duplication of Dodge. The minor differences between the two cars only brought production numbers down and parts costs up as the two cars don't share all the same parts.
Please don't talk about GM not giving us the cars the people want when that's exactly what they did. Trucks and SUVs are what we wanted and that's what GM gave us. All other manufacturers followed. The Toyota Tundra is a V8 based full size truck now. Toyota and Nissan have both increased the size of their trucks and SUVs and the engines to compete. GM did put alot of focus on trucks and SUVs because they were selling and selling alot. It's not GMs fault that gas went to $4+/gallon and that the banking industry crashed. Without people being able to get a loan, they can't get a car!
We, in the US, have the roads and parking space available for the larger vehicles. I prefer them over the small vehicles that have only one crush zone, the entire car. The Smart car and others of the same size do not hold up well in crashes. They have a 5 star crash rating, but that's at a 20 mile per hour head on or 40 mph into a wall. A 40 mph head on and the car is toast. I'd walk away in my truck with little to no injuries. Let Europe keep their tiny cars!
06-07-2009, 05:54 PM
#83
Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
I see kizz has been sold on the media propaganda regarding the end of the 4th gen and also the SUV issue.
To set the record straight, GM did not discontinue the Camaro and Firebird due to sales! There were new safety requirements for 2003 that the 4th gen car could not meet. Per GM, it is cheaper for a factory to be built from scratch than to completely retool. The bean counter side of GM contractualy agreed with the CAW that if the Ste. Therese factory closes, the vehicle/s produced there need to be discontinued for a minimum of five years. This was agreed to before 1992 and GM had no idea that the gov't was going to mandate safety requirements so stringent for 2003. That's why the concept was unveiled in 2006. In model years, GM was able to play games with the announcement of a new Camaro.
Now, the reason for no Firebird is because GM started their restructuring years ago and sees the Firebird as another set of parts and costs for a similar vehicle. Chrysler did the same by eliminating the Plymouth brand which was almost a duplication of Dodge. The minor differences between the two cars only brought production numbers down and parts costs up as the two cars don't share all the same parts.
Please don't talk about GM not giving us the cars the people want when that's exactly what they did. Trucks and SUVs are what we wanted and that's what GM gave us. All other manufacturers followed. The Toyota Tundra is a V8 based full size truck now. Toyota and Nissan have both increased the size of their trucks and SUVs and the engines to compete. GM did put alot of focus on trucks and SUVs because they were selling and selling alot. It's not GMs fault that gas went to $4+/gallon and that the banking industry crashed. Without people being able to get a loan, they can't get a car!
We, in the US, have the roads and parking space available for the larger vehicles. I prefer them over the small vehicles that have only one crush zone, the entire car. The Smart car and others of the same size do not hold up well in crashes. They have a 5 star crash rating, but that's at a 20 mile per hour head on or 40 mph into a wall. A 40 mph head on and the car is toast. I'd walk away in my truck with little to no injuries. Let Europe keep their tiny cars!
To set the record straight, GM did not discontinue the Camaro and Firebird due to sales! There were new safety requirements for 2003 that the 4th gen car could not meet. Per GM, it is cheaper for a factory to be built from scratch than to completely retool. The bean counter side of GM contractualy agreed with the CAW that if the Ste. Therese factory closes, the vehicle/s produced there need to be discontinued for a minimum of five years. This was agreed to before 1992 and GM had no idea that the gov't was going to mandate safety requirements so stringent for 2003. That's why the concept was unveiled in 2006. In model years, GM was able to play games with the announcement of a new Camaro.
Now, the reason for no Firebird is because GM started their restructuring years ago and sees the Firebird as another set of parts and costs for a similar vehicle. Chrysler did the same by eliminating the Plymouth brand which was almost a duplication of Dodge. The minor differences between the two cars only brought production numbers down and parts costs up as the two cars don't share all the same parts.
Please don't talk about GM not giving us the cars the people want when that's exactly what they did. Trucks and SUVs are what we wanted and that's what GM gave us. All other manufacturers followed. The Toyota Tundra is a V8 based full size truck now. Toyota and Nissan have both increased the size of their trucks and SUVs and the engines to compete. GM did put alot of focus on trucks and SUVs because they were selling and selling alot. It's not GMs fault that gas went to $4+/gallon and that the banking industry crashed. Without people being able to get a loan, they can't get a car!
We, in the US, have the roads and parking space available for the larger vehicles. I prefer them over the small vehicles that have only one crush zone, the entire car. The Smart car and others of the same size do not hold up well in crashes. They have a 5 star crash rating, but that's at a 20 mile per hour head on or 40 mph into a wall. A 40 mph head on and the car is toast. I'd walk away in my truck with little to no injuries. Let Europe keep their tiny cars!
would this smart car be better for kizz
06-07-2009, 05:55 PM
#84
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
BTW, I don't listen to "propaganda," as you put it. I think for myself. You have your opinion, and I have mine. GM is a disgrace and I wish they'd move to China, or at least to the Cayman Islands, where their address (for the purposes of tax evasion) is located.
06-07-2009, 07:23 PM
#85
Moderator
Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
Reread my post. For the 5th gen to be built in 2003, they would have had to retool the factory or build a new one. GM wanted to build a new plant instead of retool. They were contemplating on building them stateside, but because of the contract agreement, they couldn't. Since GM closed Ste Therese in 2002, GM made concessions with them and decided to build the 5th gen in Canada again. If they brought the factory stateside, and Ste Therese closed, the model produced in Ste Therese needed to be discontinued for a minimum of 5 years. That's why the car went away in 2002! After 5 years, it was determined that the Oshawa plant has the highest quality ratings in all North America. The 5th gen is built there because GM wanted to bring the car back, wanted it to be the highest quality and the best car they ever built as a start to the new revamped GM. They are thinking heritage, but unfortunately, the bean counters don't and signed agreements without looking at long term repercutions.
06-07-2009, 08:49 PM
#86
Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
Reread my post. For the 5th gen to be built in 2003, they would have had to retool the factory or build a new one. GM wanted to build a new plant instead of retool. They were contemplating on building them stateside, but because of the contract agreement, they couldn't. Since GM closed Ste Therese in 2002, GM made concessions with them and decided to build the 5th gen in Canada again. If they brought the factory stateside, and Ste Therese closed, the model produced in Ste Therese needed to be discontinued for a minimum of 5 years. That's why the car went away in 2002! After 5 years, it was determined that the Oshawa plant has the highest quality ratings in all North America. The 5th gen is built there because GM wanted to bring the car back, wanted it to be the highest quality and the best car they ever built as a start to the new revamped GM. They are thinking heritage, but unfortunately, the bean counters don't and signed agreements without looking at long term repercutions.
06-08-2009, 09:16 AM
#87
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Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
I am not Scott but.
Since GM is now under Government ownership, I expect to see the following from Government Motors (GM)
1) Larger cars will slowly become smaller, eventually we will be driving cars similar to the "Smart Car" or the BMW that is driven by Erkle {sp?} as pictured above. Since Obama is so bent on appeasing Leftist, Socialistic ideals it is only logical that this will come to pass in one shape or another. He has pushed up the time table of 35Mpg to 2017 I think it was, instead of the original 202? that was originally passed a few years ago.
2) There are two options for Pontiac, a) They could be resurrected once the oppression, I mean Recession is over. b) they could be gone forever. It was not the best selling brand for GM and it really did compete with Chevrolet. Unfortunately what they will find is people like me will not buy a GM vehicle until it is released from the Governments control. I guess unless there is one heck of a deal.
John
Since GM is now under Government ownership, I expect to see the following from Government Motors (GM)
1) Larger cars will slowly become smaller, eventually we will be driving cars similar to the "Smart Car" or the BMW that is driven by Erkle {sp?} as pictured above. Since Obama is so bent on appeasing Leftist, Socialistic ideals it is only logical that this will come to pass in one shape or another. He has pushed up the time table of 35Mpg to 2017 I think it was, instead of the original 202? that was originally passed a few years ago.
2) There are two options for Pontiac, a) They could be resurrected once the oppression, I mean Recession is over. b) they could be gone forever. It was not the best selling brand for GM and it really did compete with Chevrolet. Unfortunately what they will find is people like me will not buy a GM vehicle until it is released from the Governments control. I guess unless there is one heck of a deal.
John
06-08-2009, 09:36 AM
#88
Re: GM has offically dropped the pontiac brand
I am not Scott but.
Since GM is now under Government ownership, I expect to see the following from Government Motors (GM)
1) Larger cars will slowly become smaller, eventually we will be driving cars similar to the "Smart Car" or the BMW that is driven by Erkle {sp?} as pictured above. Since Obama is so bent on appeasing Leftist, Socialistic ideals it is only logical that this will come to pass in one shape or another. He has pushed up the time table of 35Mpg to 2017 I think it was, instead of the original 202? that was originally passed a few years ago.
2) There are two options for Pontiac, a) They could be resurrected once the oppression, I mean Recession is over. b) they could be gone forever. It was not the best selling brand for GM and it really did compete with Chevrolet. Unfortunately what they will find is people like me will not buy a GM vehicle until it is released from the Governments control. I guess unless there is one heck of a deal.
John
Since GM is now under Government ownership, I expect to see the following from Government Motors (GM)
1) Larger cars will slowly become smaller, eventually we will be driving cars similar to the "Smart Car" or the BMW that is driven by Erkle {sp?} as pictured above. Since Obama is so bent on appeasing Leftist, Socialistic ideals it is only logical that this will come to pass in one shape or another. He has pushed up the time table of 35Mpg to 2017 I think it was, instead of the original 202? that was originally passed a few years ago.
2) There are two options for Pontiac, a) They could be resurrected once the oppression, I mean Recession is over. b) they could be gone forever. It was not the best selling brand for GM and it really did compete with Chevrolet. Unfortunately what they will find is people like me will not buy a GM vehicle until it is released from the Governments control. I guess unless there is one heck of a deal.
John
close it is spelled Urkel and that is a 1960 BMW Isetta. they called them "bubble cars"
Last edited by KITT1983; 06-08-2009 at 09:49 AM.
06-08-2009, 10:08 AM
#89
Re: GM has offically dropped the Pontiac brand.
Everything SM has said about the Camaro leaving and returning is 100% correct. Those are the facts of all the nonsense and mismanagement that went on behind the scenes. Cars like the Camaro are not invulnerable when an entire company is mismanaged from top to bottom for years. They never wanted to stop the Camaro but it unfortunately had to be done.
The 5th Gen is a winner though and they are already on track to sell many of them, I'd like one myself someday. It's mostly 1st Gen, but I can see a little Third in there too inside and out.
Realistically, there hasn't been this much excitement for a new musclecar since our cars came out. They'll probably never match our sales, but they are in high-demand nearly the same as our early Z28s and IROC-Zs were new. As long as they stay popular with the public and sell good, they will be safe. The government owning most of GM, like its bankruptcy, is a temporary thing to insure that they stay in business and sales/cash flow are gonna be far ahead of imposing agendas and cars that people don't want or need. That would be counter productive for them and everyone else. If people speak with their wallets and show what kind of cars they truly want, that's probably more of what we'll get.
The 5th Gen is a winner though and they are already on track to sell many of them, I'd like one myself someday. It's mostly 1st Gen, but I can see a little Third in there too inside and out.
Realistically, there hasn't been this much excitement for a new musclecar since our cars came out. They'll probably never match our sales, but they are in high-demand nearly the same as our early Z28s and IROC-Zs were new. As long as they stay popular with the public and sell good, they will be safe. The government owning most of GM, like its bankruptcy, is a temporary thing to insure that they stay in business and sales/cash flow are gonna be far ahead of imposing agendas and cars that people don't want or need. That would be counter productive for them and everyone else. If people speak with their wallets and show what kind of cars they truly want, that's probably more of what we'll get.
06-08-2009, 07:52 PM
#90
Re: GM has offically dropped the Pontiac brand.
As for Pontiac, I am not happy about them going out of business even as a Camaro/Chevrolet guy. Though, you must realize, as many Pontiac purists do, that since the 80's Pontiac has been a giant product overlap, a fleet of mostly "modified" Chevys. To build cars that are almost exactly the same with minor differences is nonsensical and especially so in todays market, when developing parts is so expensive. A single wheel design can cost over a million dollars. It's better for business if all that is concentrated on one brand instead of developing different parts for the same car with a different logo and name. This releases alot more money for Chevy to do better things and have a broader appeal, and saves cash all around.
I know some people think it's wrong that there is a new Camaro and no Firebird. Truthfully though, Pontiac never wanted a Camaro-like car, they just agreed to it when they could not get the 2-seat sports car they wanted (like todays Solstice) while the Camaro was originally being developed. They already helped start the musclecar market with the GTO and weren't all that interested, but they did the me-too thing and went with it when Chevy was nearly done with the Camaro. Chevy was the division really intent on going after the M*stang. Pontiac was able to really make the car theirs back then though, since they had their own engines and decisions to make the car more distinct than the 3rd and 4th Gens were spec-wise. I think that Pontiac guys should be thankful that they produced the car for as long as they did and should do their best to keep them going. Besides, even though I think they'll never bring the brand back, you just never know what can happen in the future in better financial times. Should there ever be money to do so, of all the brands dropped, I think they'd be the first to return. Probably as a niche/specialty brand though with very little similarities to Chevy, which is what they wanted to do recently until it was decided against.
I know some people think it's wrong that there is a new Camaro and no Firebird. Truthfully though, Pontiac never wanted a Camaro-like car, they just agreed to it when they could not get the 2-seat sports car they wanted (like todays Solstice) while the Camaro was originally being developed. They already helped start the musclecar market with the GTO and weren't all that interested, but they did the me-too thing and went with it when Chevy was nearly done with the Camaro. Chevy was the division really intent on going after the M*stang. Pontiac was able to really make the car theirs back then though, since they had their own engines and decisions to make the car more distinct than the 3rd and 4th Gens were spec-wise. I think that Pontiac guys should be thankful that they produced the car for as long as they did and should do their best to keep them going. Besides, even though I think they'll never bring the brand back, you just never know what can happen in the future in better financial times. Should there ever be money to do so, of all the brands dropped, I think they'd be the first to return. Probably as a niche/specialty brand though with very little similarities to Chevy, which is what they wanted to do recently until it was decided against.
07-27-2009, 11:55 AM
#91
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Re: GM has offically dropped the Pontiac brand.
In the original post it said "...Pontiac may be sold at other dealers as a one-car company..."
I'm hoping this is what happens and the Firebird is their 1 car, and the G8 is rebadged as a Chevy.
My local Pontiac dealer is combined with GMC, so that is completely possible here. P.S. My Pontiac dealer got G8 # 20000 
I'm hoping this is what happens and the Firebird is their 1 car, and the G8 is rebadged as a Chevy. My local Pontiac dealer is combined with GMC, so that is completely possible here. P.S. My Pontiac dealer got G8 # 20000
07-27-2009, 02:21 PM
#92
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Re: GM has offically dropped the Pontiac brand.
keep dreaming. It might be a possibility if there was a Firebird currently in production, but there's not, and no chance there will be.
It's certain now that Pontiac will be killed
Even though a scaled back Pontiac would probably be a healthy brand. Cut it down to the G8 and Solstice, keep it a 2-3 car brand selling only rear drive performance vehicles, no SUV's minivans, or crossovers. Pontiac had lost its way the first time they started building anything but cars.
It's certain now that Pontiac will be killed
Even though a scaled back Pontiac would probably be a healthy brand. Cut it down to the G8 and Solstice, keep it a 2-3 car brand selling only rear drive performance vehicles, no SUV's minivans, or crossovers. Pontiac had lost its way the first time they started building anything but cars.
07-28-2009, 07:26 AM
#94
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Re: GM has offically dropped the Pontiac brand.
It's sad That GM is killing off Pontiac. Twenty years ago GM had 51% of market share, now it less than half. GM has too many brands, divisions and models to be competitive in todays market. It is probably due to people buying non-AMERICAN cars.
07-28-2009, 10:42 AM
#95
Moderator
Re: GM has offically dropped the Pontiac brand.
Why do so many people say that GM has too many brands? As GM was growing years ago, they bought out the smaller guys adding to their portfolio. Each brand is a different company under a corporate umbrella. Many years ago, the US gov't instituted a limit to the number of cars an import manufacturer can bring into the US. So to get around this, Honda created Acura, Toyota created Lexus, Nissan created Infiniti and now Hyndai created Kia. If you go to their countries, you are buying only Honda, Toyota and Nissan. As long as GM keeps the vehicle lines seperate, there should not be an issue with "too many brands". I think the issue is "too much duplication". We don't need a Silverado and a Sierra, or a Tahoe, Denali, Escalade amongst the brands. Create the Tahoe, the midscale Tahoe would be a Denali and the top of the line Tahoe would be called an Escalade. GM was trying to appeal to the American buyer thru marketing. A rich person wants the Escalde because it's a Cadillac, not a Chevy! Again, GM DID give us what we wanted.
07-29-2009, 10:07 AM
#96
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Re: GM has offically dropped the Pontiac brand.
I think one thing forgets is each brand represents a segment of the population. Where most car companies create one model for the masses, GM had a unique viewpoint of not offering only one model to many people, rather create niches for everything. From a certain point of view, a GMC and Chevy truck are pretty much the same, but in reality Chevy is more likely to be purchased by an individual, where a GMC is more likely to be purchased for construction. They market them completely different, a GMC often has more things standard or even things that you cannot get on a Chevrolet. I know in 1989 My friend bought a GMC 1500, under the hood was a light that was attached to a recoiling wire, he could put it anywhere under the hood to work on it at night if need be, apparently it was not even an option on the Chevy.
Same thing goes for cars, The Chevy was for the Hoi polloi or the Masses, Pontiac was for the Poor but Proud, or those who wanted a step up from the masses, Oldsmobile for the comfortable, or the middle class, Buick for the striving, or upper middle class, and Cadillac for the rich.
I know it has been said, and no one believes it, GM was still the worlds largest producer of cars, period, with the exception of a few months last year, this was true since... well darned near forever. So GM was not making cars that no one wanted, it was making cars that people want... Unfortunately they were taking more money OUT of the company than what it made, it created its own vacuum and it finally imploded on itself. Unfortunately when entities become so large and are poorly run, like GM, like the Federal Government they tend to think that they are immune. All of these things are coming to a head, and you have not seen anything yet.
John
Same thing goes for cars, The Chevy was for the Hoi polloi or the Masses, Pontiac was for the Poor but Proud, or those who wanted a step up from the masses, Oldsmobile for the comfortable, or the middle class, Buick for the striving, or upper middle class, and Cadillac for the rich.
I know it has been said, and no one believes it, GM was still the worlds largest producer of cars, period, with the exception of a few months last year, this was true since... well darned near forever. So GM was not making cars that no one wanted, it was making cars that people want... Unfortunately they were taking more money OUT of the company than what it made, it created its own vacuum and it finally imploded on itself. Unfortunately when entities become so large and are poorly run, like GM, like the Federal Government they tend to think that they are immune. All of these things are coming to a head, and you have not seen anything yet.
John
07-29-2009, 10:31 AM
#97
Re: GM has offically dropped the Pontiac brand.
I think one thing forgets is each brand represents a segment of the population. Where most car companies create one model for the masses, GM had a unique viewpoint of not offering only one model to many people, rather create niches for everything. From a certain point of view, a GMC and Chevy truck are pretty much the same, but in reality Chevy is more likely to be purchased by an individual, where a GMC is more likely to be purchased for construction. They market them completely different, a GMC often has more things standard or even things that you cannot get on a Chevrolet. I know in 1989 My friend bought a GMC 1500, under the hood was a light that was attached to a recoiling wire, he could put it anywhere under the hood to work on it at night if need be, apparently it was not even an option on the Chevy.
Same thing goes for cars, The Chevy was for the Hoi polloi or the Masses, Pontiac was for the Poor but Proud, or those who wanted a step up from the masses, Oldsmobile for the comfortable, or the middle class, Buick for the striving, or upper middle class, and Cadillac for the rich.
I know it has been said, and no one believes it, GM was still the worlds largest producer of cars, period, with the exception of a few months last year, this was true since... well darned near forever. So GM was not making cars that no one wanted, it was making cars that people want... Unfortunately they were taking more money OUT of the company than what it made, it created its own vacuum and it finally imploded on itself. Unfortunately when entities become so large and are poorly run, like GM, like the Federal Government they tend to think that they are immune. All of these things are coming to a head, and you have not seen anything yet.
John
Same thing goes for cars, The Chevy was for the Hoi polloi or the Masses, Pontiac was for the Poor but Proud, or those who wanted a step up from the masses, Oldsmobile for the comfortable, or the middle class, Buick for the striving, or upper middle class, and Cadillac for the rich.
I know it has been said, and no one believes it, GM was still the worlds largest producer of cars, period, with the exception of a few months last year, this was true since... well darned near forever. So GM was not making cars that no one wanted, it was making cars that people want... Unfortunately they were taking more money OUT of the company than what it made, it created its own vacuum and it finally imploded on itself. Unfortunately when entities become so large and are poorly run, like GM, like the Federal Government they tend to think that they are immune. All of these things are coming to a head, and you have not seen anything yet.
John
there three main reasons to why GM failed
1. UAW
2. morons at the helm of GM
3. Too much Government regulation
07-30-2009, 10:10 PM
#98
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Re: GM has offically dropped the Pontiac brand.
Scott made an interesting point a few entries back, about 'duplication' - The Silverado/Sierra thing comes to mind - and I understand that GM is still going to produce both Chevy and GMC trucks. I think that says something about what buyers actually want, and that GM perhaps might be a bit afraid to kill off/sell off another popular brand. I am also one more consumer who won't be darkening the door of ANY GM or Chrysler showroom until the unlikely occurrence that the Gummint and the UAW both get the **** out of the car business . . .
07-31-2009, 07:51 AM
#99
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Re: GM has offically dropped the Pontiac brand.
Ha.. You referenced to something Scott said & then in the same post proceeded to use bad language.. (He hates that.)
I was actually going to post something about that while reading yesterday but I had to put the laptop away..
I really don't understand how they can kill all these other brands & still keep GMC. They usually share the same dealerships as Pontiac & others anyway, so they are still going to be "costing" them the same for those to be open. Another one of their reasons is that pontiac sales were cannibalizing Chevy sales. Well even if they are selling enough GMC pickups they could still sell that many more Chevys if they didn't have the GMC option.
I was actually going to post something about that while reading yesterday but I had to put the laptop away..
I really don't understand how they can kill all these other brands & still keep GMC. They usually share the same dealerships as Pontiac & others anyway, so they are still going to be "costing" them the same for those to be open. Another one of their reasons is that pontiac sales were cannibalizing Chevy sales. Well even if they are selling enough GMC pickups they could still sell that many more Chevys if they didn't have the GMC option.
07-31-2009, 09:06 AM
#100
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Re: GM has offically dropped the Pontiac brand.
Good job UglyBronco!! People do listen.
In the case of his asterisk using, that's fine. Little eyes have no clue what they refer to. I don't like when people use the "s" word and substitute the "!" for the "i", or use the "f" word by substituting the "c" for a "k". That's bypassing the filter and not allowed. You can asterisk the whole word if you want!!
In the case of his asterisk using, that's fine. Little eyes have no clue what they refer to. I don't like when people use the "s" word and substitute the "!" for the "i", or use the "f" word by substituting the "c" for a "k". That's bypassing the filter and not allowed. You can asterisk the whole word if you want!!