Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

Knowing what you know now, if you could go back in time to the late 80's/early 90's and were to buy a brand new 3rd gen. Would you have bought a 1LE or not?

Why would you or wouldn't you? T-tops, simple lack of A/C (a major factor in AZ, TX, FL etc), not available on GTA's, what are your reasons for or against?

scribbles

I love my gta two much, but i would take a firehalk.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

I love the Firehawks. But why couldn't they have made them with leather seats?

TOM-1LE

I would have bought the same combination I have now (305TPI/5-speed 1LE), but NOT as a daily driver. I need A/C on a daily driver car.

If I did buy a 1LE new, though, I might have bought a Firebird Formula, instead of a Camaro, just for the extra rarity.

I'm a big fan of the 305 TPI/5-speed combo. I'm willing to give up a some horsepower to have the manual. It works extremely well and makes the car much more fun to drive IMO.

sbcfever350

Put me down for a 5 speed. No a/c doesn't bother me 1le's still have the 2/65 a/c but since you have the time machine out make a quick stop in 1969 and grab me a zl1 copo.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I had 500 bucks down on a yellow TTOP 91 305 5speed 1LE. Was going to have the dealer install the slp package (minus the computer chip) along with SLP underdrive pulley, oilpan and a new aluminum headed 5.7 corvette longblock...
Until dad found out just exactly what the car was
yes I would have kept all the stock parts..
I still have the paperwork/worksheet 4 it.

P.S. Im kinda looking for a very nice yellow 91-2 formula with TTOPS to build what I should of had..

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

I woulda preferred a B4C. Harder for a civilian to buy, but not entirely impossible.

And think about this....How many of us, besides "collectors" leave our cars stock? Before long, most of the1LE stuff would be gone/changed anyways, so why pay the extra $, for something your gonna change out anyways?

TOM-1LE

My understanding is that T-tops were not available with 1LE? Do the RPO codes list both 1LE and CC1? Maybe the T-tops were aftermarket.

mike_c

iTrader: (13)

I'd take a 305 5 speed 1LE. You could get a T/A with the 1LE package, right? I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of a yellow one before... If not, it really doesn't matter, I'd gladly take a Formula or Z28 1LE.

The lack of a/c doesn't bother me, I rarely use mine as it is.

TOM-1LE

What you said is true for most people...I guess I am in the minority as a "collector" because I prefer stock.

There were a lot of people who were modifying 1960s Corvettes and big-block Camaros back in the 1970s and 1980s, who I bet wish they had kept the original parts! I've heard many stories of rare original carbs, intakes, exhaust manifolds etc. for these cars simply being thrown away. These parts would now bring top dollar, as well as enhancing the value of the car. But who knew?

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I was going to order it. We called the zone office and they said TTOPs would be ok.. I even asked about getting mine with factory A/C and the zone boys said they might be able 2 squeek it through....
It seems like you could get away with more by ordering the bird...

I'll never know for sure know thanx dad

TOM-1LE

By definition, 1LE was not triggered on a civilian car unless both G92 (performance axle) and C41 (A/C delete) were ordered. You could get 1LE and A/C together only by ordering the B4C police package, which was not available with T-tops. All this sounds like alphabet soup but GM stuck to it pretty religiously.

So, I doubt if the car would have actually gotten built the way you ordered it. Very few Firebirds were built as 1LE cars anyway. Of course, a cooperative dealer (and a fat wallet in your pocket) could have ordered the car close to what you wanted, and finished the rest over the parts counter.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

The t-top option was very important to me. IMO, it's one of the "defining" options for an F-Body. I can't imagine owning one without, so there's no way I'd have gone for the 1LE option.

My '87 Formula IS my perfect car.

RockinGTA89

LAFireboyd, i couldn't agree with you (BTW nawce Formie!).... I love the TTops in general! I have a diecast model of a 87 Monte Carlo with TTops, even seen a real one up front and love it! To me that CC1 option defines a F-body, like it's bread & butter and more eye candy to see when a 3rd gen is exposing much more then just a hard top...makes 'em look more sophisicated!
My first 3rdgen Fbody T/A had ttops and when i had to find another one (this time a GTA) i had to find one with TTops as well....

so if Tops were avalible with the 1LE package with ...it's a big "X" marked on the checklist...

89ROC-Z

iTrader: (7)

Just thought id chime in. I love to drive my 305 5 speed way more than a buddies 350 auto. So much more fun to drive!!

LFN AT U

iTrader: (1)

I don't think I would have bought a 1LE as a daily driver. I don't care about A/C that much but I would prefer more options than a stripped down 1LE. However, if I could go back I would have definitely bought a 305/5-speed car like I have now. The cars were meant to race so I think the 5-speed is almost a must. There are less than ten Heritage 1LEs known. Mine is red with a black interior and there are only two of those known to exist so I'd just go back and buy the same car. It's only got 47,000 miles on it now but if I was the original owner I know it would have a LOT less.

90tararebird

iTrader: (4)

You guys talk about the 1LE as if it were easy to get in the first place. It was not. First you had to have a dealer willing to order one for you. Next the dealer had to follow the correct procedure for ordering it. (High Performance Pontiac had an article in it in 1989 or 1990 on how to do the ordering) The way they spelled it out was that it was not that easy to get correct. Then finally you had to be willing to wait months to get you car. And then it could still come in and not be an 1LE because the dealer did not do the ordering correctly. Its not like these cars were sitting on lots. You go to the dealer and he says yes you can have the basically striped down car that you have to wait months to get or you can have the Loaded GTA tomorrow. Tough question. Not for most. In 1990 there was no internet so the only people that even knew of this option were inthusists. There's a reason not many 1LE's sold, because cars are usually bought to be daily drivers.

Gregg1LE

Living in Texas, hardly anyone not involved in racing would have purposely ordered a car without A/C. Young Chevrolet here in Dallas bought several
1LE's that sat on the lot. The original owner of my car ( I'm the 2nd ) walked into the dealership and wanted the ultimate Z28 and drove out with a Ultra Blue Metallic 305/5speed 1LE. I bought it when he needed money .

t_towner

Why would anyone really want a 1LE unless they planned to road race, accidently ordered it or purchased as a collector piece (mostly 91/92 cars?)

In my opinion the only real 1LE's are the 5 speeds. My first car was an 87 LX 5.0 Mustang with a 5 speed. Before I purchased the 5.0 all I dreamed about was a Formy 350 or Iroc.....however that little 5.0 would slaughter 350 cars stop light to stop light.

Around the road course the 1LE would demolish 5.0's due to the upgraded brakes. Automatic cars were not great road racers and 1LE's weren't really faster on the street. A regular G92 car w/ AC would do great for the street or a 5 speed 1LE for the track would be the only way to go.

My $0.02 worth.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

This is a question I've debated back and forth many times. Would I have bought a 1LE back in the day.

I prefer a hardtop to T-tops, so no problem there. I could live without cruise control and manual doors/windows. Since about half of the 1LE parts were available on regular F-bodies, the nice stuff comes down to the gas tank and the brakes. I don't know if the 1LE brakes stopped any better or if it was purely a better brake fade situation. Some of the shock stuff I'm sure is better. But how much I don't know.

Living in Canada and driving these cars only in the summer, the lack of A/C would have been fine. I don't drive them in the winter. So no A/C for defrost is needed. And besides, you still get defrost without A/C. It's just that it takes a bit longer. Now that I live in Texas, I use the air conditioning in December never mind the rest of the year. So it would definitely have not been a daily driver. And good luck selling a car in TX with no air conditioning.

Ultimately I think I would have ordered one. But on the other hand, I don't regret that I didn't get one. I like that the GTA is a fully loaded car. Tends to be rare enough compared to the IROC's and Trans Ams.

I do agree on the 1LE was meant for 305/5 speed cars. I'm kind of wondering what the point of the 1LE was on the 350 cars. I prefer a 350 car myself. So if I had ordered a 350 car with 1LE, it would have been a street only car.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

GM has been known to let cars be custom ordered with different axles, options that weren't generally available to the public. Options that were never advertised unless you somehow knew about it. Take the white Firehawk with A/C and CD Player for example. http://www.firebirdgallery.com/hawklot1.htm

Having said that I don't know how you'd get A/C on a 1LE due to the mandatory delete. As I understand it, you didn't actually order RPO 1LE. You just got the TPI with good transmission and the good axle ratio and then the car showed up as a 1LE. And the C41 A/C delete credit and C60 A/C would have surely stumped the people making the car.


It's true with the internet being the way it is these days, it would be pretty hard for GM to do something like this in today's world. Too much info spreads too fast.

I suppose if I'd taken in my Player's Challenge book that stated what was allowed and what was not allowed on the cars and told my dealer I wanted to order one just like that, I would have gotten a 305 1LE....But then again, there was nothing written up that said you got anything special compared to a regular F-body. (The book is from 1987.) So I would have ordered a car thinking it was the same as a Player's Challenge car (which as I knew it back then was no different than any other car. All I knew was that the cars were 305 5 speeds with solid roofs.) But it would have showed up as a 1LE in 1988 and newer.





Then again, if I walked in and ordered a 350 and saw that it was $400 with A/C or $600 without, I surely would have ordered the car with A/C.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

Apparently you couldn't order them by computer. Had to be a manually mailed.

TOM-1LE

Reid, what issue of Super Chevy is that? I collect literature and period magazine articles related to the 1LE, but that is one that I don't have. Tom

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

That's from the Player's Challenge sticky thread in the History/Restoration section. Mark_ZZ3 has tons of info about the Player's Challenge cars. A lot of info on the 1LE cars as well.

3.8TransAM

I've seen 1LE cars with air that were not B4C cars.

In 305 5 spd and 350 versions.

Let alone LC2 which had 1LE plus air.

I dont think we will ever get true answers on the how what and why's.

I vote for a 305 5spd car lol.

Kevman

Regular car with 5.7.. I'd be too cheap at the time to buy the 1LE option.

DJP87Z28

Would of, should of and could of bought of bought a car with RPO 1LE, No, unless you were in that time frame the above applies.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Only Camaros had to be ordered that way.. Birds had 1LE on the order form.
I have a road test with A yellow formula or T/A 1LE and it had A/C 305-5sp car. even has a pic of window sticker.

okfoz

Do share the pic & Road test...

Some thing I recently learned... Apparently the B4C cars were NA with the Heritage stripes...

I like my creature comforts too much to say no to AC

John

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

You're going to make me dig aren't ya?? LOL
I think its in a old Musclecars mag or High Performance Pontiac.
I made copies of it for my folder..
I'll look tonight

okfoz

Someone has to keep you in line... You have not been back to the T/A nats, and you did not make it the F-body show in INDY...

John

BLACK92B4C

In 1988 I put money down on a Formula 350, I want the 5.7, but the Camaro only sold it in the loaded out Z28, Firebird was cheaper. The dealer had a 1LE car, but not knowing much about it at the time, I really wanted A/C! Later I learned more, and found my B4C cars. Only one is 1LE though. I plan on keeping both. Knowing what I know now, I'd try to work a B4C 1LE car.

LFN AT U

iTrader: (1)

Yep, the B4C's couldn't be ordered with the Heritage package but the 1LE's could. It must be due to the fact that the B4C's were meant for police duty and many were painted "fleet" colors. There weren't many Heritage 1LE's either. I know of seven and heard of possibly a few more but haven't been able to verify them.

David M

Knew someone who ordered a 1LE in 1989. Dealer didn't know what the car was or how to order it. Was finally ordered in Feb. and built in May. Dealer made customer pay up front because car was A/C delete and didn't want to get stuck with it. Red car 305/5spd, grey custom cloth, DX3 decal delete.
Car attended many shows and won the diamond award through the USCC.
Car was sold to a gentleman in Knoxville, Tenessee in July 2002 with 2700 mi.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Yeah been busy at work and building a garage, will be back to T/A nats next year maybe.

Car Craft july 1985 RT 85 T/A L-69 5 speed with lear siegler seats

I have a 89 formula 350 RT where they ran 14.20s but can't find what mag its from!?!?!

Musclecar reveiw mar 1991 1LE T/A 5speed

Musclecar review july 1992 1LE formula 305 5speed yellow with A/C...

more to come. I'll try to get them scanned and E-mailed to ya..

t_towner

[QUOTE= Musclecar reveiw mar 1991 1LE T/A 5speed

Musclecar review july 1992 1LE formula 305 5speed yellow with A/C...

more to come. I'll try to get them scanned and E-mailed to ya..[/QUOTE]

Tony, this post sparked some interest.

I created a new post on the subject. Was the 1991 1LE car red?

If so can you please post the article.

See thread: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...1le-built.html

Thanks,
Greg

Damon23

I was at the dealership ready to take one home in '91, looked just like Greg1LE's car when my friends dad (the owner of the dealership) said, "Son, you dont want to go car broke." I ended up trading my 79 Camaro for a 84 S-10 extended cab 4x4. And that was the last hope of a third gen as I wasent a fan of the fourth gens. Untill now, I hope to have one very soon.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

The story is called "street fighter" The T/A is blue with 2 side storys.
SLP put on their Performance package on the T/A and had a quick test with it.
there is another little blurb about the race T/As its white tho.

I also found in Dec 1990 HPP a story called inside the SLP Pontiacs.
It has a small pic of a red hard top 91 GTA with the slp stuff.
The other car looks to be the pre production press Firehawk, it has weird red centerd 5 spoke wheels and the hand made intake and air induction parts

Kevman

I love my tunes...

RED_DRAGON_85

you know, i voted that id take a 305 manula 1LE but after thinking it over, and with modern technology at hand, id really like to have a standard IROC with a 350 and t-56.

as for the AC delete, well, ive never owned a car with working AC, so that doesnt bother me too much.

besides, thats what t tops are for.

so i change my vote to:
"Id like an IROC with a 305 and t-5 trans."
that way i already have the stuff needed in the car to swap in a t-56, a 305 to 350 swap has been done millions of times, and i wouldnt be destroying an UBER rare 1LE in the process.

FormulaL98

Honestly, if i was to buy a new performance car in the 80's I would have been a Turbo Buick guy lol. However As far as a third gen I'd really like a 91-92 Formula 350 with the slp package and then proceed to destroy tire! (and 5.0's)

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Well, I had forgot about this until it popped up doing some digging.

Scroll to post 31.. for the 1LE formula with A/C

Formula 350 drag test (vintage) - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards