wildjeff

iTrader: (1)

I haven't been to any thirdgen events where there were any sorts of competition or judging. So I have a few questions for anybody who has.

Is there any sort of guide the judges follow?

I'm in the process of restoring my 83 Firebird. I'm not planning on entering it in any competitions, I plan to drive it and enjoying it, however, since it's apart I figure I might as well put it back together as close to stock as possible.

I’m also planning on adding a few options that were not originally installed with the car, such as a power seat, rear hatch release, and power door locks. All of the correct vintage.

What about painting or powder coating various suspension pieces that are normally bare metal. Since this will be a weekend car, I do want to do things that will preserve it.

How would something like that affect judging?

86NiteRider

iTrader: (10)

Your confusing me...if you are not planning on entering the car in any competition why do you want to know if your upgrades would effect judging?

BTW: Everything effects judging, especially when you enter the original stock class.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

It's difficult to have both a driver and it also be a show car.

GTA Jim

It all depends where you're showing the car... Most show'n'shines don't follow strict rules. (They're the most fun to go to )

Serious car shows have several classes that you can enter that range from pure stock to heavily modified. The rules vary.. It depends on who is putting on the show.

If you enter a pure stock class, then pretty well anything that never came from the factory when the car was assembled isn't acceptable... As you add custom stuff to a car, it moves to other classes.

To give you a rough idea of what you can and can't do and what classes there are, the link below has the rules and regs used by the TransAm Nationals show in Dayton.

http://www.78ta.com/nats/rules.html

wildjeff

iTrader: (1)

Two reasons. One, I’m just curios. Two, I want to know how others would classify my car. Is it stock? Is not modified? or what? It’s mostly for my own personal knowledge.

GTA Jim - thanks for the link, I’ll read through it on lunch if I have time.

2fast4u92z

WOW that sucks I guess I would be modified. All that will look different on my car is the intake, rubber tires, rear end, subframes, and kickpanel speakers.

If I was in modified I would be killed I am sure those guys have all chrome motors or something.

I guess I will do local shows only.

1982TA

iTrader: (1)

I've often wondered this myself. What kind of guidelines do the judges follow for thirdgens? They must have thirdgen "Experts" that know everything about these cars inside and out to spot any differences. I don't know how many thirdgens enter in 100% factory correct shows but I don't see alot of thirdgens at shows I goto.

Also, according to the link, it looks like you are allowed to add options that were not original with the car but must be from the same year. This would still be considered stock if I'm reading it correctly.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

There are VIRTUALLY ZERO "pure stock" these cars any more. A few; but VERY few.

At most "local" type car shows, the ONE guy that could bring a car that had the fewest mods, would win that class.

At most of these "local" events, all the cars are modified. It boils down to a "square inches of chrome" contest. Not so much the motor; but WHEELS. In one of those classes, if you have stock wheels, you will lose. Period. The guy with the biggest, gaudiest, grossest, gangiest, nastiest, chromiest, "blades", will probably win. No matter what else is done to the car. If 2 cars have equally mismatched wheels, then the one with the most non-stock paint job will win; based on how hideous and brilliant the color is (day-glo, tennis ball, flames, etc.). If that's a tie, then it's time to move to the motor, rear end cover, transmission pan, etc.

There must be some kind of a reason I don't participate in those events with my thirdgen. I'm trying to remember why.... it'll come to me sooner or later I'm sure.

This car, on the other hand, WINS. Or, it did, when I was still doing that sort of thing with it.

okfoz

At the trans am nationals: Unless they changed the rules...

1) they tech line your car and there is a guy who (thinks) he knows it all and he places you in a class based upon the modifications done to the car. THe problem with this is when you have 2 people teching the cars and inconsistancies come into play. For example one year a guy hand rubbed his runners on his 92 TA he was given 8 modifications (one for each runner) Another guy had basically an all stock car but he installed a Lingenfelter/Accell intake and one year he was in heavy modified, the next year they put him in heavy custom even though nothing else changed.
My 87 the first year I showed it I was placed in Heavy custom, THe next year I left the car basically unchanged except I had new rims, they put me in Light custom. My 89 Formula 350 Vert is considered Heavy custom even though the car is basically identical to how it left the dealership, what gets me is you can have the SLP equipment installed and it is not suposed to change your class but that was dealers installed.

for the TA nats: ANY option that was availalbe that year would not be a deduction for classing purposes. The exceptions are things like the radio if it does not protrude can be aftermarket. You can change the exhaust as long as the tips appear to be stock.

Someone was telling me that the Pontiac show in Norwalk OH they dock you for anything and everything that is not original.

John

scottmoyer

The TA Nats judge list looks very lenient.

I DO have a pure stock car and have entered it into many shows in the Original/Unrestored class. In the shows I enter, the only changes allowed from stock that will keep you in stock class are tires, batteries spark plug wires, safety items and any shock or strut (including hood/hatch). These items have to remain visually the same and a recent replacement of the original. Installing an Exide battery instead of an AC Delco is a change. Installing 255 series tires when they should be 245 is a change. Window tint can put you in a custom class. Putting 1987 IROC-Z rims on a 1987 Z28 is a change. My car has received 7 Platinum awards in the unrestored original or stock class. BTW, the plug wires on my car are also AC Delco with the same part number the car originally came with. Stock means stock parts, not aftermarket. The number 1 biter at these kinds of shows is cleanliness. No matter how clean the car, there can always be dirt somewhere.

In answer to your question, the judging is different for almost every show. You need to know the classification before you go to know what class you fall in.

2fast4u92z

This may sound crazy but what about tint. I just picked up my hatchglass (20%) just to keep the sun rays off the carpet. So tires and exhast with stock tips should be ok.

Iroctopless

It's really a strange crap-shoot sometimes. I've entered in many carshows and the only awards I seem to get are either "spectators favourite" or in one case, "farthest distance travelled".
My ride is entered as totally stock. I have the original stereo and even run OEM Goodyear GSC's for rubber. Original paint & interior. Basically everything but the fluids!
In one case, the entering class was stock 80's cars. There was a lot of crap and I was probably closest to a Grand National that was there. His black paint was extremely swirled and rough, tires and wheels were different, the interior had cigarette burns, he refused to open his hood, and it basically needed a real good cleaning. Mine was minty and shiny.
HE WON!

Today I just go to carshows for the fun and enter to get a good parking spot.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

I think that it sometimes boils down to the year, model, type, and color of car that the judges prefer, more then the actual condition and authenticity of each car.

We had an 83 TA that we bought new, kept until 03, 42K miles, never outside, pristine and original. It never got much attention. We also had a 70 Shelby GT 350, 90K, restored, wrong color, wrong tires, aftermarket everything, a number 2 at best, which won all of the time. We shown a 1957 Isetta, which was ragged out and incomplete, which always came out as a favorite.

Charles

RPM WOT L 98

iTrader: (3)

You really need to build your car to your desires, but if you plan on showing it semi-professionally there are a few things that I have learned about car shows.
First, if it is a participant-voting or a popular voting show then you need to have an eye-catching car to win. Like 86WS6 said, it can be the wrong color and wheels and such, but win everytime at one of these shows.
Case and point, my car took 1st place in the Stock Firebird Category at ThirdGen Fest 2007. My car is a Red hardtop '92, with body colored R15s. It sticks out at a car show and people are drawn to look at it. Maybe it's bc they think it may be a Firehawk or maybe just bc you don't see that many 91-92 cars at all.

At my local car shows in the Chicago area, it is usually the cleanest car in a class that takes the trophy. These shows have a group of judges that really give your car an in-depth looking over. They may not know everything about every car at the show since it's not certain car specific, but they will check the wheelwells for dirt, and that is my kind of judging.

At a show like the TA Nats, there are strict rules for how many mods you are allowed to stay in stock class and there are people that will place you in a class based on inspecting your car. However, this year I saw a stock '89 Formula that was in light modified only bc it had chrome tips that protruded from the bumper. Other than that it would have been a very good competitor in the stock class.

So you really just need to build the car for what type of show you are planning on attending. You may not win at all types of shows but as long as the car is clean and well done, you will get the recognition you deserve at one show or another.

Mark

wildjeff

iTrader: (1)

That's my plan, build it like I want it, but I also want to stay true to the model year. Your responses have helped a lot, I was kind of on the fence on how I should restore it. It will be a weekend driver so I think the best thing for me to do is to restore it as close to stock as possible, however, do things that will protect its in the long run. Like, painted the suspension components and seat frames. And other small stuff.

I'll also be putting on some R15s Firehawk wheels (just for fun), but still have the original wheels available.

I'd love to go to the Trans Am Nationals but it's too far away for me, at least for now. I'm in the Pacific Northwest which is about 2000 miles away. Maybe someday

TAdan

Echoing what others have said...it is really a mixed bag.

Basically the only place that judges thirdgen Firebirds based on "correctness" is the POCI. However... You have to consider that perhaps the POCI judge dosent know everything about your particular type. (This is very common with thirdgens).

I have seen incorrect cars beat 100% stock cars in a stock class at every show I have been too. (Norwalk, Dayton, etc...).

I am with you, I love the idea of a 100% correct car. Your best bet is to do the research yourself. Observe other cars, and network with other owners who are looking for the same information.

I have the same intent for my 84 as you. Make it as stock as possible, but still enjoy it.