tommyjack

Just bought a 1989 Formula and was doing some research on it. One site said it was a rare car. Only 50 made. Tell me what you think. 81,000 org miles, 305TPI, 5Spd, RPO codes-G92, N10, LB9, MM5, G80, GM3, to name a few. No dreaming I've found a gold mine here, just wondering. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

thanks, TJ

formula_novice

iTrader: (1)

https://www.thirdgen.org/1989-pontiac-firebird

LG4TA

That is a rare find. My brother had a G-92 88 Iroc-Z like that. The car was running consistent 14.70's all stock.

twobirds

Why is that formy rare??? 16,670 were made. I think it is a great combo for a formula anyway. I just don't "see" the rarity of it.

avro206

I think you should list the offending site!

305 5 speed TPI cars would either be the rarest combo that year or a the 350.

Almost all Formulas I have ever seen are 305 TPI autos or TBI/carb.

But there were certainly more then 50 of your combo made.

tommyjack

Here ya go...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Firebird

Guest

Wikipedia has to be about the most inaccurate form of historical information you could possibly use. I'd disregard anything you read there.

LG4TA

A G-92 car in the Formula version is pretty rare.

avro206

I like Wikedia--it does usually have most the facts right but not in this case.

Heres what they say about it:

According to the same Car and Driver article, very few of these "hopped-up" Formulas, which were capable of accelerating from 0-60 mph in under 7 seconds, hit the streets; only about 50 were built each model year, as almost all LB9-equipped Formulas came with an automatic transmission — which disqualified them from receiving the high-performance N10 and GM3 options

1. Hopped up?? No they are stock.

2.How would Car and Driver know how many 89 Formulas were produced like that in the model year?
Production numbers are compiled at the end of the production year.

3. This kind of detailed info does not exist even for Chevy or has never been released because no other source can be cited. If it's there--on Wikpedia--why is it not listed anywhere else??

Heres an obvious error:

LB9 engine output was increased to 230 hp while the L98 increased to 240 hp

They are of by 5 hp in each case---small yes but still wrong.

I have nearly every single road test of 88 Firebirds from Car and Driver and cannot recall the quote aledgedly coming form Car and Driver in Wikpedia---fake!

tommyjack

The 230/240 numbers are also referenced in the very first answer to my question. Also some tests by car rags are done in the same model year. Not trying to stir up a mess just wondering how many are out here or better yet how many members on this site have one or have seen one.

thanks

Guest

Unfortunately, GM never kept records of options like Chrysler. The most you can trace down is how many produced that year, how many that color, how many with that particular drivetrain. Thats about it.

I've seen at least a couple others here I can think of off the top of my head. IIRC Car and Driver tested one as a sidebar to a Mustang/Camaro comparo and I'm pretty certain that was in 89. So there's one that was in print.

As far as history and accuracy, I've yet to find a totally accurate book, guide, or website. There's always a mistake here or there, I'm sure partly due to the fact we're getting information second or thirdhand via GM. Wikipedia rates low on my list, and this websites history information through the main page leaves a lot to be desired. However there are some quite knowledgeable people here that have nailed down quite a bit of trivia. If okfoz replies he will be able to give you as much accurate information as you'll likely ever find.

tommyjack

Thanks!!!

okfoz

I have seen that figure of 50 TPI/M5 FORMULAS made for each year...

All things being equal I do not buy it. I own one, I have seen them at the trans am nationals, there are a lot of people on the boards with them... When you consider that at the trans am nationals in Dayton I have never seen a 87-89 Firebird or Trans Am convertible there from 2002 thru 2007 and there were about 600 total made for the three year span, then you consider the number of FORMULA LB9/M5 cars that go to the show there is always at least one or two there. If you take 50*6 (number of years from 87-92) thats only 300 cars total, then the numbers really do not add up.

I think a number closer to 500 per year would be more accurate as far as number crunchers go.

For firebirds in 1989
6,478 LB9 engines
9,107 MM5 Manual trans
16,670 FORMULA's
9,631 GTA's
366 GTA's with the MM5 trans
64,404 TOTAL firebirds all models
All in all the numbers really do not add up

John

tommyjack

Thanks for the info. This thing is all original with 81,000 miles. Never been tuned up, 2 owners-3 counting me. really chomping at the bit to mod it but hate to screw up something that may be special down the road. One things for sure, the factory paint has to go, clear coat has gotten thin.
Would the PHS be any help on the numbers???
TJ

okfoz

Honestly a LB9/M5 is probably one of the more uncommon cars made... without doing some actual research here is my thoughts on rarity when considering the engine & trans combo:
From MOST RARE to most common 87+ V8 only
Firehawks - 25
TTA - 1555
LB9/M5
LO3 or LG4/M5
L98
LB9/A4
LO3 or LG4/A4

Add T-tops and you cut your population about in half

honestly its not "Super rare" to where they are virtually impossible to find, like a Firehawk, BUt they are unusual enough to where I would probably think twice before modifying it with irreversable changes. One thing to consider is that in 1989 there were less LB9/M5 GTA's (& probably Trans Am's) than TTA's for the one year. The above numbers are for all years combined.

John

tommyjack

Thanks John for the info. I'll probaly leave well enough alone and follow my Dad's advice from 30+yrs ago: If it aint broke don't fix it.

okfoz

not to hit you over the head, but according to the GTA source page there was only 2174 Manual transmission GTA's from 1988 thru 1992. 1987 was not able to be determined because of the produciton numbers included the TA that year.

Not a Formula but interesting nonetheless.

JOhn

tommyjack

Very interesting. To bad we can't go through PHS (Ponitac Historical Society) and find out more. I had never seen one before and got to checking into it and thats where the 50 number came up. Sounds like they made more TTA's in 89 than these though. Having had 3 Grand Nationals I'd still love to have a TTA some day.

okfoz

I thought I would point out that the Formula like the GTA when equiped with the LB9/M5 or the L98 came with the performance axel Standard, there should not be any acceptions unless an error in the plant or a shortage of parts. Unlike the Camaro where the G92 was an option The firebird line defined the performance options by model until 1991 when they offered a performance axel on the Trans Am as a part of a package R6P (I think). On a side note: thru 1986 ( not sure about earlier) the Trans Am was available with the G92 and was marketed similar to the Z28 or IROC. IF you ordered a G92 on a firebird after 1987 they all should have gotten the 1LE package, as the G92 was only available on the Trans Am from 1988 thru 1990 and only available on the TA and Formula in 1991 & 1992. In essence there should not be a single G92 Firebird made in 1987.

So yes your statement would be very accurate that would be a rare sight to actually have a G92 Formula (about 68 made TOTAL for the two years (1991 & 1992). In the essence of the performance axel its not so uncommon as stated above.

John