When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
A friend sent me an email wondering if his car was rare...
A couple of years ago he bought an 1987 Iroc-z convertible. He looked at several
convertibles before he bought the one he did and on the dash badge they all said "20th anniversary edition" and had like a leather pouch. On his car under
where it says Iroc-Z Z-28 it says special edition <u>253</u> and has no leather
pouch.
[b]The question is does this make his car any rarer???
i do not know of any Camaros that had the leather pouch you are referring to. As far as I know only the Firebirds had that pouch, and they also had the map pocket on the door as well.
I may be incorrect, but I do not know a whole lot about the IROC-Z Convertibles. My '87 IROC does not have that option, nor does my Camaro book list that RPO.
You can check out the RPO list on my website (which lists most common options) for more information or you can email me and I'll try to help you out.
To get you started, your friend's 1987 IROC-Z Convertible is a rare car, indeed, with a total production of 744 cars. The page for the RPO codes is www.IROC-Z.org/rpo/Camaro/1987/87.php
I don't know about your buddy's car, but i can vouch for the map pocket. Willie's 87 Z vert has it. I think his website has a list of all the unique aspects of his 87 vert.
If anybody knows about specifics of rare 87 verts it's *****.
...ed
Originally posted by Joe_L: A couple of years ago he bought an 1987 Iroc-z convertible. He looked at several convertibles before he bought the one he did and on the dash badge they all said "20th anniversary edition" and had like a leather pouch.
Here's the map pocket that's in my 1987 Z28 convertible:
Only 1987 convertibles received the map pocket. Only the convertibles are designated as "20th Anniversary Commemorative Edition" Camaros. This is the unknown anniversary edition Camaro because GM never made a formal announcement of this car. Plans called for production between 5,000 and 10,000 of these vehicles but due to production difficulties, only 263 Sport Coupes and 744 Z28 convertibles were built.
On his car under where it says Iroc-Z Z-28 it says special edition 253 and has no leather pouch.
What do you mean "has no leather pouch"? You state above that it does have a map pocket. The inferred production number (i.e. 253) is NOT original, but dealer installed.
To answer your original question, yes they are rare. Simply because of extremely low production. What makes this car very collectible is the fact that it IS an anniversary edition. In order of rarity:
1) IROC-Z, 305 carb, auto
2) IROC-Z, 305 TPI, 5-speed
3) Z28, 305 carb, auto
4) Z28, 305 TPI, 5-speed
No other drivetrain combinations were produced. I happen to have owned one #1 (which is now in New Zealand), one #3 (which is now owned by Tim Burgess' father-in-law and one #4 (still own and not for sale). My current convertible is one of only two confirmed to exist with this drivetrain.
What do you mean "has no leather pouch"? You state above that it does have a map pocket. The inferred production number (i.e. 253) is NOT original, but dealer installed.
I never stated my friends car had a leather pouch, all the ones he looked at had a leather pouch, the one he bought did not, but rather 253 where the pouch should be located.
Originally posted by Joe_L: I never stated my friends car had a leather pouch, all the ones he looked at had a leather pouch, the one he bought did not, but rather 253 where the pouch should be located. So is it any rarer, or is it dealer installed?
All original convertibles had map pockets. This piece never had a GM part number, so they were never available over the counter. It sounds like the one your friend bought is not an original convertible. This can be verified by the sixth digit in the VIN. A "3" signifies an original convertible. All others display a "2".
If it is not an original, value will not be as great. But it still IS a convertible, so it will be worth more than a coupe.
Willie
[This message has been edited by Willie (edited January 26, 2001).]
I thought I posted to this topic a couple of days ago, but I must've done something wrong.
My wife and I ordered our '87 IROC convertible in March of 1987. Every Chevy dealer we went to told us there was no such thing, but that's another story.
Our car has the pouch (as shown above by Willie). The few other '87s that I have seen also had the pouch. I few months back (maybe years now, rather than months) a guy advertised an '87 in Hemmings as being numbered. I called and asked him how he knew what number his car was and he replied that there was a number on the dash on the passenger side.
It could be that GM built more cars than they originally intended and that pouches went in the cars beyond the numbers that they had. This is only speculation, of course. But now I've heard about numbered '87 convertibles from two sources.
------------------[list=A][*]1987 IROC Convertible 5-speed, TPI, Performance axle, oil cooler, no air[*]'57 Thunderbird, California car, D engine, both tops[*]'68 Riviera - Grandpa's last, my first, owned 26 years
Originally posted by IROC87convertible: My wife and I ordered our '87 IROC convertible in March of 1987. Every Chevy dealer we went to told us there was no such thing, but that's another story.
I had the exact same thing happen to me. I later heard a story that I cannot confirm. When GM realized they could not come close to the projected 5,000 units, they limited Chevy dealerships to only one '87 convertible. Most dealerships never got one. Again, this is unconfirmed.
I few months back (maybe years now, rather than months) a guy advertised an '87 in Hemmings as being numbered. I called and asked him how he knew what number his car was and he replied that there was a number on the dash on the passenger side.
It could be that GM built more cars than they originally intended and that pouches went in the cars beyond the numbers that they had. This is only speculation, of course. But now I've heard about numbered '87 convertibles from two sources.
Here's my take on this issue. ASC not only converted Camaros for GM, but for customer owned vehicles. I believe the cars that were sequentially numbered were customer owned. This would differentiate between the two and further identify this, as well as simplicity in keeping track (for ASC).
I believe every sequentially numbered Camaro convertible was customer owned at the time of conversion. No "factory" 1987 convertible (sixth digit in VIN = 3) I've ever come in contact with (over 100) is sequentially numbered.
It would be great if someone could confirm the existance of a sequentially numbered car that also has a "3" for the sixth digit in the VIN. I don't think they exist. If they do, my speculation would be wrong.
Willie, Looks like you're right. There's an '87 IROC convertible in this month's Hemmings advertised as being number 0185. I e-mailed the guy and the 6th digit is a "2".
------------------[list=A][*]1987 IROC Convertible 5-speed, TPI, Performance axle, oil cooler, no air[*]'57 Thunderbird, California car, D engine, both tops[*]'68 Riviera - Grandpa's last, my first, owned 26 years
So from what I have seen researching my car there are 2 kinds of 1987 Camaro Convertibles. If the vin has a P3 in it its an original factory convertible if its a P2 then it was sent out after it was built and changed to a convertible after it went to the factory as a coupe. There were a little over 1000 original P3's between base Camaro's (V6), IROC's, and Z28's. I have a P3 that I was going to restore.
Last edited by scottmoyer; 02-03-2016 at 04:26 PM.
So from what I have seen researching my car there are 2 kinds of 1987 Camaro Convertibles. If the vin has a P3 in it its an original factory convertible if its a P2 then it was sent out after it was built and changed to a convertible after it went to the factory as a coupe. There were a little over 1000 original P3's between base Camaro's (V6), IROC's, and Z28's. I have a P3 that I was going to restore.
Welcome to the boards... YES you are correct, ASC from 1986 thru 1987 did conversions to t-top cars for Chevrolet Dealers, likewise from 1986 thru 1989 ASC did conversions to T-top cars for Pontiac Dealers. All of these cars would be have a 2 for the 6th digit. The ASC convertibles that were done with a 3 for the 6th digit are identical in appearance, structure and parts, the only difference is how it was ordered, it was ordered through the Chevrolet or Pontiac system.
I had the exact same thing happen to me. I later heard a story that I cannot confirm. When GM realized they could not come close to the projected 5,000 units, they limited Chevy dealerships to only one '87 convertible. Most dealerships never got one. Again, this is unconfirmed.
Here's my take on this issue. ASC not only converted Camaros for GM, but for customer owned vehicles. I believe the cars that were sequentially numbered were customer owned. This would differentiate between the two and further identify this, as well as simplicity in keeping track (for ASC).
I believe every sequentially numbered Camaro convertible was customer owned at the time of conversion. No "factory" 1987 convertible (sixth digit in VIN = 3) I've ever come in contact with (over 100) is sequentially numbered.
It would be great if someone could confirm the existance of a sequentially numbered car that also has a "3" for the sixth digit in the VIN. I don't think they exist. If they do, my speculation would be wrong.
Willie
They do exist because I just purchased a 1987 Sport Coupe Convertible and the sixth digit of the VIN is a 3.
That's not what Willie was saying. We know there are Sport Coupe convertibles, but are any sequentially numbered to another?
I'm building a database of all '87 VIN 3 convertibles. It's possible I already have yours, but if not, I'd like to get some info from you. In that database, I have no sequentially numbered VINs defined.
Only 1987 convertibles received the map pocket. Only the convertibles are designated as "20th Anniversary Commemorative Edition" Camaros. This is the unknown anniversary edition Camaro because GM never made a formal announcement of this car. Plans called for production between 5,000 and 10,000 of these vehicles but due to production difficulties, only 263 Sport Coupes and 744 Z28 convertibles were built.
What do you mean "has no leather pouch"? You state above that it does have a map pocket. The inferred production number (i.e. 253) is NOT original, but dealer installed.
To answer your original question, yes they are rare. Simply because of extremely low production. What makes this car very collectible is the fact that it IS an anniversary edition. In order of rarity:
1) IROC-Z, 305 carb, auto
2) IROC-Z, 305 TPI, 5-speed
3) Z28, 305 carb, auto
4) Z28, 305 TPI, 5-speed
No other drivetrain combinations were produced. I happen to have owned one #1 (which is now in New Zealand), one #3 (which is now owned by Tim Burgess' father-in-law and one #4 (still own and not for sale). My current convertible is one of only two confirmed to exist with this drivetrain.
Most '87, 5 speed, LB9, IROC-Z convertibles I've seen had the G92 package. Very few did not.
Really that's interesting...would love to own one some day ...if not for only the cool map pocket...and actually put a map in there just because.
Wonder what the going rate is on those with under 50K millage...14-17ish...or is that way too high...minus the guy selling it who just got a divorce and has to make a house payment and sells it for like 10 lol
I realize I am digging up an old thread but how rare would an 87 IROC Vert 5Speed / 8748 Flame Red be?
I am showing what I think are some of the important option codes it has.
Leather
1SC IROC Package 3
G92 Rear Axle, performance ratio
J65 Brakes, power front disc and rear disc
KC4 Cooler, engine oil
UX1 Radio, stereo, cassette, clock, s/s, equalizer
U21 Gage Package
U75 Power Antenna
I realize I am digging up an old thread but how rare would an 87 IROC Vert 5Speed / 8748 Flame Red be?
I am showing what I think are some of the important option codes it has.
Leather
1SC IROC Package 3
G92 Rear Axle, performance ratio
J65 Brakes, power front disc and rear disc
KC4 Cooler, engine oil
UX1 Radio, stereo, cassette, clock, s/s, equalizer
U21 Gage Package
U75 Power Antenna
Ok, I figured most were automatics and not 5 speeds.
Yeah, you'd think that. In '87 you could only get the IROC convertible in LB9 5 speed or LG4 auto. Most of the LB9s had the G92. Weird the way they did it.
Because it was the first year for a certified convertible, and the M5 gets better MPG than the A4, I think there was a few reasons why they did not include the A4 for 1987 with the TPI. Let us consider that every engine and transmission combination they probably had to do a crash test as well, It is like when SLP did the Firehawk in 1991, they had to do a backwards barrier crash because they changed the rear axle.
For 1987, you could get an ASC with the V6, LG4, LB9, and even a few (5 known) L98s made it. However if you wanted a certified vehicle from GM stating that indeed it met all the emissions requirements, fuel economy requirements, crash test requirements, they limited it to the LG4 with the Auto, and the LB9 with the 5 Speed. Remember the LG4 was the universal engine and it was available in every model, from the Sport Coupe, LT, Z28 & IROC-Z. The LB9 was the performance engine option so it probably made sense that those two combinations were the only ones used for the kick-start of production.
ASC and GM worked on both the Camaro and Firebird together starting in 1985. I suspect they wanted to introduce it in 1986, but certification was going to be a road block because for starters, the Convertible would suffer for MPG, and GM did not want to charge customers for the extra "gas-guzzler" fee like they do now. $2000 was a lot more money in 1987 than it is now. Just like GM was planning on a mid year L98 for 1986, but held off until the start of 1987 production, I suspect there was a lot of things going on and getting all of the cogs, sprockets, and gears going in order to make the feds happy, things were delayed. I also suspect that the Convertible production was not introduced until mid 1987, but I have no evidence of that.
My family owns several 1987 Camaro iroc Z convertible’s. All
of them have the ‘20th anniversary commemorative edition’ noted on the passenger dash but one we just purchased says ‘special edition’ with a number 0115 on the dash. Sure enough this one also has a 2 as the sixth digit in the VIN. This forum has been incredibly helpful, you all have so much knowledge and I appreciate reading through your comments below. My question is— with the 2 as the sixth digit in the VIN, even though it looks the exact same as the ‘true’ convertibles with the 3 in the VIN, does this make this vehicle any less valuable?
This has been discussed many times, but no real answer is known. If ASC made the factory convertibles, and ASC made identical aftermarket convertibles, is there a value to a 3 versus a 2? In all reality, you would think so, but the 3rd gen convertibles don't seem to be commanding the same prices as the TTop models. I used to think there would be a value difference, but as values have increased, I'm not so sure anymore.
Past discussions have said that the Firehawk is an aftermarket modified car and it has value over the factory cars, so why wouldn't the ASC verts? I guess it's all up to the buyer and the market to what has value, and today, neither a 3 or a 2 vert has a difference over the other.
That's not what Willie was saying. We know there are Sport Coupe convertibles, but are any sequentially numbered to another?
I'm building a database of all '87 VIN 3 convertibles. It's possible I already have yours, but if not, I'd like to get some info from you. In that database, I have no sequentially numbered VINs defined.
Hey Scott,
Still adding to the database? How many you got?
Hi Willie, I own an 87 Z28 305 TPI w/ 5 spd convertible do you know the VIN numbers for the other car? Is there any proof or documentation from GM sources?
Any information you have would be appreciated.
01-26-2001, 01:06 PM
...if not for only the cool map pocket...and actually put a map in there just because.
