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I welded a torque arm mount on for a buddy last year on an 8.8. He did the rest with a flux-core. Its holding up so far with a nitrous/LS combo. I let the center section sit on a hot plate and heated it with a torch, then TIGed it with stainless rod. Let it slow cool on the hot plate, and covered it with a blanket as you mentioned. Anyway, might get some ideas? Love seeing the fabrication guys do!
I did the same thing. Tig'd with stainless filler ER309L. No issues thus far with 245 slicks. I used a SN95 rear which required some changes to the Hiltsy mount but did not need to change or modify axle tubes. This way I could also get 31 spline axles affordably.
I have to apologize, after looking at the pics that you welded then broke off, I see it was the cast housing, not inclusions. That really is some fine welding.
With the heat you are putting to that housing, any concerns? CI probably comes back as-is?
Mike, no need to apologize. You were simply trying to help. I appreciate it as it made me research and learn a lot about cast, the different kinds, etc.
Looks good! Did you happen to check clearance at full bump? I may have missed it, but what TQ arm are you planning on running?
Yup, sure have. It seems to be good.
Torque arm I'm building out of 1.25 dom tubing. Still debating if I'm going to tie it into tranny support or have it's own. Definitely not using the tail of tran.
Rear is done and in car. Fits great. Been working on the torque arm mounts. Started with the tran mount. Quickly realized there is a lot of crazy compound cuts needed in how I was going to do it. So I put that on the back burner and started on the mount that bolts to the rear. Have a few more welds to do and then it's done minus making it look pretty.
no weight in car and suspension needs to settle. Hope it comes down more or I'll be addressing that for sure.
Make shift jig. Was a pain figuring out the compound cuts Made it 3/4" low for ample adjustment. I may weld something permanent once i know the drive line angles. Still gotta weld the bracket for the torque arm mount. Will run a dog bone set up with a del sphere. I plan to cut the angle iron so its flush with the tubing. Welded ok. I was in a hurry and forgot to clean the scale back far enough on the angle iron.
My welds look like an 8 year old is trying to hide his bubble gum after chewing it.
What are you doing for exhaust? If your doing long tubes you may need some clearance for exhaust at the crossmember.
Hey, either notching the sub frame and reinforcing or just tucking it up as tight as I can get it to the floor. Plan on going to a yard and snagging some heat shields I can make work. 3" stainless. Think it's going to dump before axle. Damn these cars and their non ability for exhaust.
Looks good. I did an 8.8 swap like almost 10 years ago and I made my own tq arm mount that just side over the pumpkin nose and is held on with 2 grade 8 bolts. This was before the Hiltsy mount was even available. I also used a 95 crown Vic/grand marquis rear end which is 3” wider than the 3rd gen or about .5” shorter than a 4the gen. It has 28 spline axles and I put a posi in mine. Just cut the brackets off the 8.8 and the stock 3rd gen rear ended and swap them
over. Build the tq arm mount and all you need are 1/2” spacers and you can run of the shelf 4th gen wheels with bigger backspacing.
Running it like this for years and it was behind a 550hp 521BBF and been behind my boosted 5.3 for the last 4-5 years consistently making 600-650hp with drag radials. This is with the ford factory 28 spline axles and 28 spline trac loc with carbon fiber clutch upgrade, ARP cap studs and a miser support girdle. I don’t drag race it except a few times but I beat on it every time I take it out.
think I have <$800 in the whole setup and has worked great. You will enjoy it and 28spline axles are pretty strong!
Also axle tube fully welding isn’t necessary on a tq arm setup. Since all the stress is transferred to the pumpkin via the tq arm (rotational), the axle tubes take a lot less stress in our setups vs a 4link. My axle tubes on the 8.8 are still the factory plug welds.
Good to hear. I went with 31 spline axles from strange and a Yukon carrier and gears.
I dont have that much power but I definitely plan on beating on it!!
That’s a lot of material and weight. You could have just put a bar the bottom connecting the tubes. Saved weight and welding.
neither are a issue for me. How is it any different than the umi unit? Was thinking of doing tubing but that's A LOT of coping and messing around. This was easy and very effective.
neither are a issue for me. How is it any different than the umi unit? Was thinking of doing tubing but that's A LOT of coping and messing around. This was easy and very effective.
Love to see pics of yours.
yea I get it, just saying that’s a lot of plate lol. I can’t say I like the UMI design or the BMR or he Edelbrock as they all sorta look the same. I thought the jegster version was top of the line for lots of reasons, it’s shorter so it reacts quicker during acceleration and braking. Tunnel mount fixes the issue of breaking the trans tail shaft housing. It also allows room for exhausts and you can use any trans you want. I also had it tied into my roll bar to stiffen everything up. I got a used jegster shorty tq arm with the tunnel mount but it wasn’t adjustable. So I made my own adjustable arm using the jegster tunnel mount. I like the design so much that when they stopped making them I found and bought another used one with an adjustable tq arm and have it stored for whatever reason. Hard to get pics of the tq arm mounting the rear. Lots of 1/4” and 5/16” steel plate. I had to bang to get it on and 2 bolts to hold it on so it’s not coming off. I was never confident to weld on the pumpkin and welding can distort the case and lead to leaks and bearing issues. But like I said I was driving it even tonight and floored it from a stop and I’m pushing 650hp at 13psi and it doesn’t miss a beat. I have looked at upgrading to a purpose built 8.8 but they are like $2500 all said and done. So far I have no need to upgrade.
yours should hold up to lots of abuse, the 8.8 is a strong rear and they don’t eat the power of a 9” or the big S60. Don’t mind the stickers, they were just where I got the DOM tubing, rod ends and weld on threaded tube ends from.
not sure why the pics are coming in upside down sorry.
Great info! Thanks for sharing.
I was thinking of tunnel mount, but I kept reading a shorter arm induces wheel hop on braking? Hell, idk. So much bad information out there on torque arms. I searched for a long time. Info I did come across is up or down mount. So I made some dog ears that connect to my del sphere and to the mount on my tran cross member, that will have different holes in them to move it up or down.
exhaust is going to be a pain regardless as well, you know all about 3rd gens and exhaust. Think I'm going to just run dual 3" and start piecing in together and see how it goes. Want it as tight to floor as possible.
what size rod ends are those? 3/4"?
I thought I was done yesterday so I painted everything. Then looking at my crossmember I noticed something missing. Lol. Torque arm all finished Something missing....i got a easy fix. Gets tight in there but i shouldn't have to massage anything Here u can see how im using dog ears. I basically copied a few different bars and styles. Not paying 600 bucks when i can make it Everything is tig welded. Was a pain getting inside here. Had a gas lense, 6 cup, 1" stick out, reg set at 30. May invest in a small torch.
What did you do for sway bar mounts? Axle tubes are 3.25 so no way are the stock ones going to work. Spohn has a kit, but I dont think they are filling orders now due to this bs cov19 crap.
Finally it's done. Will need adjusting when I get new wheels on up front. Next is ls1 brakes up front, and finish putting car together. Couple pieces I need to reshoot, cut n buff. Still a lot to do but I see the light.
Great info! Thanks for sharing.
I was thinking of tunnel mount, but I kept reading a shorter arm induces wheel hop on braking? Hell, idk. So much bad information out there on torque arms. I searched for a long time. Info I did come across is up or down mount. So I made some dog ears that connect to my del sphere and to the mount on my tran cross member, that will have different holes in them to move it up or down.
exhaust is going to be a pain regardless as well, you know all about 3rd gens and exhaust. Think I'm going to just run dual 3" and start piecing in together and see how it goes. Want it as tight to floor as possible.
what size rod ends are those? 3/4"?
I thought I was done yesterday so I painted everything. Then looking at my crossmember I noticed something missing. Lol. Torque arm all finished Something missing....i got a easy fix. Gets tight in there but i shouldn't have to massage anything Here u can see how im using dog ears. I basically copied a few different bars and styles. Not paying 600 bucks when i can make it Everything is tig welded. Was a pain getting inside here. Had a gas lense, 6 cup, 1" stick out, reg set at 30. May invest in a small torch.
only thing I heard about short arms was how fast they reacted compared to the long arms. Never had any wheel hop when I lock up the wheels or during hard accel.
I believe they are 3/4” rod ends, made this like 10 years ago lol.
looks like u forgot the trans mount lol.
for the exhaust I would run a single 4”. I just installed a Hawks 4” sinister on Friday and it dropped right in. I got a 7” case vibrant x 22” overall and it’s as quiet as my single 3” catback with a 14” borla proXS. I just put it on and it fit better than my 3” catback from summit, didn’t need a PHB relocation or anything. Lots of ground clearance. You could get a 4th gen speed engineering dual 3” and modify it to fit a 3rd gen pretty easily. But you will need the PHB relocation and you need to lower the PHB mount on the rear end side as well to level it back out. The new lower arm pivot kills your rear roll center and there no way to really fix that except for much stiffer rear springs.
What did you do for sway bar mounts? Axle tubes are 3.25 so no way are the stock ones going to work. Spohn has a kit, but I dont think they are filling orders now due to this bs cov19 crap.
on the stock crown Vic rear I left the stock ford sway bar mounts. I drilled holes and welded in a 1/8” plate with bolts welded to the back of the plate. The. Welded the plate to the stock ford mounts (bolt heads hidden inside the ford mount) and the bolt threads sticking out like studs. Then bolted the stock sway bar mounts with poly bushings. Basically is sits on the factory Ford mounts. I don’t like bolt on kits so I would opt for a welded mount.
I was looking at a kit by Detroit speed I think, anyways it's got the longer spacers between end links etc, which would be super easy to make, but has weld on brackets. My rear is done and I'm not welding to it anymore. Spent a lot of time getting it straight. I know 100% sure if I put heat on it it's going to distort. I've also been looking at spohns kit, (getting tired of making everything) but I'm not sure if they are filling orders yet.
I scored a bunch, 40' of stainless tubing 3" and was going to use that. Not sure if I'm going to do dual or single, up over axle or dump before. These headman headers I got suck ballz. Not sure why so many people have them and had no fitment issues. I had to massage mine to fit, but where the collectors point, kinda screw me. Luckily the tubing I got there are a bunch of bends so I know I can make something work. Really dont want exhaust close to ground so I may have to cut the front subframe and notch it so I can get it where I want. But I'm not there yet so I'll cross that when I get there.
think 3" single is too small? Again, I've read both. Yup, too small, and nope people been running 3" with more power than I'm making and it's fine. So idk.
I was looking at a kit by Detroit speed I think, anyways it's got the longer spacers between end links etc, which would be super easy to make, but has weld on brackets. My rear is done and I'm not welding to it anymore. Spent a lot of time getting it straight. I know 100% sure if I put heat on it it's going to distort. I've also been looking at spohns kit, (getting tired of making everything) but I'm not sure if they are filling orders yet.
I scored a bunch, 40' of stainless tubing 3" and was going to use that. Not sure if I'm going to do dual or single, up over axle or dump before. These headman headers I got suck ballz. Not sure why so many people have them and had no fitment issues. I had to massage mine to fit, but where the collectors point, kinda screw me. Luckily the tubing I got there are a bunch of bends so I know I can make something work. Really dont want exhaust close to ground so I may have to cut the front subframe and notch it so I can get it where I want. But I'm not there yet so I'll cross that when I get there.
think 3" single is too small? Again, I've read both. Yup, too small, and nope people been running 3" with more power than I'm making and it's fine. So idk.
3” will support 400-450hp before becoming a restriction which is close to what dual 2.5” would support but dual 2.5 is alittle higher. Single 4” will support like 650hp before being a restriction. Dual 3” will support 800hp theoretically. Bends, length etc all come into play. This is with an NA car, superchargers tend to like bigger exhaust bc they breath better and exhaust restriction affects supercharger efficiency drastically. On a turbo car all math goes out the window lol “per say” a single 3” down pipe ca. Support like 800-900hp. I’ve pushed mine to 650-700hp on a single 3”. Undersizing the exhaust just restricts HP. So a single 3” might only be a 20hp difference over a single 4” depending on the setup that doesn’t mean you can’t make 500+hp on a single 3”... just means it will restrict and cost you hp the more you crank it up.
I think you would be fine with a single 3"... if you wanted a little more breathing room you could bump to a single 3.5". I doubt a single 3" with a good straight through muffler would really cost you much if any power. But you would be on the ragged edge of flow through that single 3". Even if you bump that power up you will still make the extra power but it will rob just a little more as you crank it up.
If you did dual 3" off the headers you could build a dual 3" but its going to be loud but it will flow double of what your actually making. Just harder and more pipe to make it work but you have alot of pipe so...
I was planning on single so that's good to hear. I haven't dove into the exhaust department, and this will be my 1st time. I am very ignorant in this department. I was looking at series 40?? Small little thing.. anyways, yeah lots to learn. Greatly appreciate your comments and information.
Any experience with v bands? Brands? Ones to avoid etc? I know having them male female (flanges), and cut to accept pipe are a plus. That's about as far as I've gotten. Lol.
I was planning on single so that's good to hear. I haven't dove into the exhaust department, and this will be my 1st time. I am very ignorant in this department. I was looking at series 40?? Small little thing.. anyways, yeah lots to learn. Greatly appreciate your comments and information.
Any experience with v bands? Brands? Ones to avoid etc? I know having them male female (flanges), and cut to accept pipe are a plus. That's about as far as I've gotten. Lol.
Again, thanks man.
stay away from Flowmaster anything. They have learned tho and the new FX series is decent (straight through perforated core). That?s going to flow the most of any design. Flowmaster is crapmaster and they kill flow by putting blockages in the flow AKA chambered mufflers. Borla, magnaflow, vibrant, dynomax, and a bunch of other knock offs make them and they are all good quality. A single in and out muffler will flow more than a single in and dual out unless the outlets are on the same side (think ypipe inside).
vbands are decent if you plan to remove the exhaust a lot but they all usually leak. Unless your great at welding them (move fast and not a lot of heat) then your guaranteed to warp it. I?ve used self aligning vbands and non self aligning. They are basically the same but the thicker the flanges the less likely to warp. I clamp flanges together when welding and only do a bit at a time and let it cool between. If you have the room for pipe to stick through like 1/4? (slide pipe through the vband so it pokes out and that will slide into the other vband) that?s the best your going to get with those. Something else to look into is a Marman Flange, they are the best but they need lots of room and they are near impossible to find in stainless. Nothing wrong with slip fit and a good band clamp like a torque tite. self aligning vbands are sometimes a PItA to get to work, if they warp your screwed and they don?t fit far enough into each other to really be a benefit. I have been using both recently but got some eBay ones for $12 that I?m liking so far for 3? self aligning. Here is a pic of the one I welded last week to make my 4? catback bolt into my 3? downpipe/electric cutout with a interlocking flex pipe
Vibrant 4? streetpower straight through perforated core. As you can see it doesn?t block flow at all.
this pic you can see that if it?s a straight section I always push through a big of pipe(slide the flange on further) which helps even with aligning flanges and if you do it right will be 100% leak free.
I just welded that one above last week. I pick a few up and have them in case. Bc they are male/female with the self aligning ring you need the correct side if your changing something which I was so luckily I had a spare set to use a flange from. That?s a scratch start TIG with 308 SS rod and not the best weld being the pipe is so thin compared to the flange.
04-21-2020, 04:08 PM
