dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Title says it all. I have my car almost 100 percent apart and figured now would be a good time to stiffen things up if it would help. Sfc are already in.

AlkyIROC

A full cage is the only real way to stiffen up a unibody. A 6 or 8 point roll bar with weld in SFC is the only thing you can really do.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Yeah. ... I know. I had a 6 point and sfc. I am building the car to be more "kid car seat safe" so I got rid of the roll bar. Still have the sfc. Have all the left over bars. Want to see if anyone can think of a good use for them. I will try to think of something.

tvc 15

If a cage is out I'm guessing just a larger sfc.

oaklandfuelman

you could tie the inner & outer sfc together brace the lca to the frame rail & tie the driver & passanger frame rails together in the rear & up front at the core support

nosajwols

iTrader: (1)

I have a six point now and I am playing with the idea of removing it so the kids can ride in the back. I have subframe connectors as well...of course. Car is t-top.

What I am looking into is keeping some sort of side-door bar, similar to my current door bar, that ties into the chassis front and back and a few point in between. Sort of like an interior subframe connector.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Not a bad idea. Looks like we are in the same boat in terms of reasons for wanting to remove the roll cage.

I have SFC already as well.

If you do anything like you describe please let me know how it turns out. I am about to start cutting some of the old cage up to see if I can add the bars in places that I think would help.

nosajwols

iTrader: (1)

Here is the idea I am playing with at the moment. I am considering making the bar bolt in but have it bolt into multiple points (almost like a trellis), including where the current roll bar ties into the frame connectors and the sub frame. Bolt in so it can be removed for insurance pictures of the car, etc.. I am thinking of welding in a bar from the current roll bar mounting point to the body reinforcement point beside the rear seat for extra strength and have this entirely under the body panel. The new door bar will bolt into this same point. I need to get out my old interior panels so I can play around with all this. Seat clearance also needs to be figured out. I want it to extend all the way front wheel wells, but again I need to figure out some clearances here.

It should be low enough to not be too much in the way for entry and exit, even for the back seats. But high enough to have some leverage.

I will likely make it out of the old roll bar if it is not too wide for clearance. I have considered aluminum (lower weight) but I am not set up to weld it. I have been doing some work in Carbon Fibre but that may just be too crazy...

Right now there are many projects inline before this one but it will be done before the car is back on the road.

The picture is my car now, with the current roll bar.

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

There was a guy with a firebird on here who built an entire "light frame" he called it, underneath the car. It was a total custom fab job, I think the thread is called "imponte ruiner" or something like that.

fatalicshock

I had a car with an X-frame on it when i bought it i dont remember who makes it and i dont have the car anymore

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

Check out fueled soul's subframe build in the fab section. You will probably have enough tubing from the roll cage to build something similar to his subframe connectors.

BOSTONCAMARO

I am with Alky on this, you can do other things but a cage is the real thing that will make a difference, my 85 was caged and Kirby's 91 has a real nice 6 point, that we likely may extend into a full cage..

nosajwols

iTrader: (1)

My subframes are already done in a similar fashion, roll bar still made a huge difference. The subframe like that does help but in the end the reinforcement is on the same (or very close to) plane as the chassis/floor. The advantage of the cage, roll bar, or roof is it is on another plane.

What we are thinking about is something similar to that thread but flipped vertical across the door opening...

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

I am 100 percent aware that a cage is the best thing to do, but for a street car that will eventually be driven with kids in the back, it is out of the question. Hence the thread to see if there were any other ideas out there. I just finished cutting my 8 point out of the car

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

92rs- thanks for the lead, that thread was great. Might just buy UMI parts and add to them. While deleting my hotchkis sfc.

nosajwols

iTrader: (1)

In my research on this it appears the Miata guys have put a lot of thought into this. Here is an example of a bolt in door bar, can be done with no roll bar. There are a tonne of different brands doing the same thing for the Miata...

http://949racing.com/hard-dog-bolt-i...-05-miata.aspx

I think there is lots of room for improvement above their designs...

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

I see where they are going with that idea. I kinda like it. Ithink it might be possible to run a bar from the floor near the kick panel to the rear wheel well on each side without causing much interference to kids getting in and out of the back seat. Im in the same situation as the OP, where i want something stiffer but have kids that like to ride in the backseat so even a rollbar is out of the question.

I have my interior out of the car right now, I'll have to do some looking when I get home.

FirebirdUSX

Or get somone from Volvo to do it for you

you can probably reinforce everything by building the roll cage inside or should I say through the body like through the A pillers going down and around the door and so on.Pretty sure Ive seen a guy with a build like that here.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

I may try to run a bar from the kick panel to the wheel well. Don't think any of my left over bars are long enough, but maybe I can piece something together. I only have a flux core mig, but think I can make something unique work. I am concentrating on the engine bay right now though. Once I am done stripping the bay, I will start a build thread

visitor

Nobody should follow that idiots build for anything. I've of the most hacked together pos's I've seen posted online. Dude should be ashamed.

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

Dude, you are one hateful little man.

bluegrassz

iTrader: (3)

Try searching for the "Rad Rides By Troy F87 Camaro" project. They did some unique fabrication on the frame for this car. You might use a few aspects from that build. He build frame rails down the rocker panels.

LX_SS

There are numerous things you can do.
You said your car is a targa top, is it a gm factory version ? If so have a look at the car and concepts roof panel brace, ( i can get a pic if you like, since my roof lining is non existent). You will have to modify one or fab a new one, however this is stronger than the original gm t-tops.

I have seen on many jap cars, addition bracing which follows the floor pan between the b pillars and the shape of the tunnel as well.

The other part you can do is like what was said previously before, make some nice sfc's for inners/outers, then graft it all together with the car.

Anyway this is mine on the underbody, the other side is mirrored. You don't need the little mount in the center of the tunnel as mine has, thats just to suit my torque arm.
I also have strengthened kick panels, a stronger firewall and transmission tunnel. I would also like to add that im considering adding front strut tower/guard to a pillar/kickpanel brace and a k-member to chassis brace (underbody).

willexoIX

Sounds like somebody plays a little too much Grand Theft Auto. Im guilty as charged too, lol. Still illegal to run people over so im left with that game, lol.

Imponte Ruiner is the name of the thirdgen in GTA 4 and 5.

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

Haha. yeah the guy who's thread I was referring to built that car from the game, it was quite impressive when he finished it.

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

BigKeg

I had an idea but it's just that..I don't know if it would work or not but ...first take all interior out...then take all the holes like the holes where the 6×9 are..then weld them up..like you would if you was shaving a door....Then cut a channel from one side to the other ..where you would have your main hoop for a roll bar...then recess a 2×4 main hoop inbetween outer metal and inside metal structure.....question why dose a roll bar have to be round ??? ..and again just a idea...I'm not a welder or race expert...

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

I can't speak to if it HAS to be round but I do know that round structural sections are stronger than other shapes.

RaverRacerX

quick question.. just how strong is that glue that some manufacturers use to bond composite/metal pieces together (thinking out loud here)?

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

I would not mind seeing a photo of that, if it's not too much trouble.

LX_SS

Ask and you shall receive. The soft matting still needs to come off but gives you the rough idea. Its a solid 2.0mm sheet. This is basically what is used to convert hardtop to C&C targa top, the factory gm top was probably a bit stronger if it has the correct press forming, however this plate/sheet adds a lot of strength in the roof none the less and any factory gm roof would benefit from a similar type deal.

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

Thanks LX_SS. That's quite a piece, with a LOT of rivets.

90camaro355rs

man your just plain mean, no reason to be like that, im sure your perfect at everything aren't you!

LX_SS

Riveting was the tool of choice instead of welding for numerous reasons (they are also aircraft grade rather than regular rivets), the main reasons would be over welding due to the time and heat that welding puts into the work area.

However, with all the fabrication that has undertaken my firebird, i will say replacing the firewall , trans tunnel and kick panels/lower a-pillar (not suggesting you do this) gave the biggest increase in strength overall that i noticed. From a jack the vehicle up at any given corner with no creek noises, vast improvement over original.

SilverChicken

iTrader: (1)

Maybe someone mentioned this and I overlooked it but if your car is completely disassembled and you want to tighten it up why not stitch weld all the panels? Makes the body a hell of a lot stronger than the glue and spot welds used to assemble the car at the factory and is invisible with the interior panels in place.

Myorangecamaro

I built connectors, then put a cage in and connected it to the rails, as well as my sub frame connectors, I don't think it's going anywhere.....

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for posting that. I have a C&C car with the later style C&C tops. I had no idea they added that much under the headliner as I've never had a reason to take it out.

There is a thread here with pics of a blue Camaro in Japan having its entire body seem welded. I remember there was alot of discussion due to the CF Heat Extractor hood used.