Tice

I think cutting a door into the top of the 'Hump' behind the Pass. Seats would be a good idea for getting to the Fuel Pumps on our cars easier.... Has anyone done this? I apologize if this has been discussed before.

kzhurley

iTrader: (7)

Yes ive done it .. if youd like i could measure it for you so you could do it to...makes fuel pump changes wayyy esier

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

this is the hack way of doing a fuel pump swap.

Its not like your going to be swapping it every other week, and doing this will save you all kinds of time. Do it the right way, its really not that hard if you have a floor jack, 2 jack stands handtools and a buddy. If you have no idea what you are doing, it will take you about a day. If you have mechanical ability, a few hours. The condition of the exhaust will also determine how long it takes to preform this job, if its old and rotted together, you will have to cut it apart.

Not only do you have to chop a huge freaking hole in the floor of the car, you have to cut and splice you fuel lines, i mean no offence, but i cant believe people still think of this is a "good idea".

I changed one for a fellow NJFBOA member few months back in a driveway with practically nothing for tools, and we were done in a few hours, unfortunately the pump was not the problem.....

rough

kzhurley what measurements did you come up with? Im going the door route with seals.

Mathius

I guess it would be a hack if a close minded person like yourself just cut a big flip'n hole in the floor and left it.

I mean why make life easier for yourself later, when you can have so much fun trying to lift a heavy gas tank or better yet try to figure a way to syphon the gas out. Not to mention disconnecting the rear suspension and dropping the axle.

Dropping a gas tank is NEVER fun, don't try to act like it is, or like its no big deal.

I've seen some really nice fuel doors put in on this site, and I can never fathom how people like you can call it a hack.

Mathius

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

Look around, you'll find most are HORRIBLE hacked fuel pump access "holes", I would venture to say 90+% of them are hacks. Both my 88 TA and my 91 GTA had holes very uncleanly cut in the rear hatch area. The 88 TA suffered damage in the rear seat area due to it. They used a piece off of a water heater to fill the hole, plus some silicone. The 91 GTA peeled open and then pounded back down, not even sealed. When I had the 88 TA apart I welded a new piece in to cover up the hack. There are tons of threads on this, here is one of the longer ones:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...cces-done.html

Mathius

So what. This is a damn fabrication board. If you can't be bothered to show people the proper way to build one then you have no right to b*tch about the results.

It's not that hard to turn a nice flange around the hole with a hammer and dolly or with a set of hand tongs. Even one of those aircraft style riveted ones don't look bad. A nice hinged panel can be upholstered with carpet and you can put a nice gasket ring around it to seal out fumes.

Don't try to act like it can't be done nicely.

Mathius

LT1LE

Yes it can be done nice.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

Sure it CAN be done nicely, however most people don't, which is why it is generally considered a hack. I've replaced fuel pump in 3 of my F-bodies and never once have I considered cutting a hole in the hump, and like I said, I've repaired two hacks in my own personal cars.

The thread I posed a link to I believe has proper pictures on how to do it.

btcamaro

Everyone always says it is a hack job and you need to do it right. I did the access door on mine a long time ago and then one night at the racetrack my pump crapped out on me. I borrowed my buddys truck that was with me and went in to town got a new pump and was racing again within an hour. I must say that was one on the best mods I have done to my car to make it easier to work on. and besides that I didn't have to tow my car home.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

Doing it right <> a hack job. If you do it right, install a door, seal it, etc etc, then it isn't a "hack job". Most people, however, do not do it that way.

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

hey i dont think anybody ever posted the measurements for it.. mines just a DD and im not going to cut a "hole" ill just cu around 3 sides, fold it up,change the pump, smash it back down and weld it up. not that big of a deal since the carpet will be covering it. you wont even know it! and it saves a haf day of work.

but if you did it the right way you might as well pull the springs out and cut em a little! knock out 2 birds with one stone.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

DO NOT WELD! There are rubber lines under there with FUEL in them.

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

knew id get flamed.. prolly right about welding.. ive done it before i should prolly count my lucky stars eh? alright so i'll pop rivet them or something. id just rather not have gas fumes in my car. any way to seal that plate without welding?? epoxy??

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

No flame, trying to avoid you getting flamed... literally!

Rivets to hold it in place and silicone to seal it? Or you can buy a prefabbed access door that looks pretty trick.

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

thanks amorget lol. silicone should work. okay so does anybody have the measurements? last time i tried finding a fuel pump my cadillac looked like pice of swiss cheese haha

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

This is stolen from elsewhere on the site. Figured it would more effective then "do a search" and me getting called a a-hole

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

haha yeah, thanks! is this for a camaro or a bird? or do they all have the same dimensions??

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

Same

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

sweet i appreciate it!

cavazos31

iTrader: (4)

I know your trying to be sarcastic in implying it makes LIFE so difficult to get to the fuel pump, but really? Although it takes up some of your time, its not that difficult to do. While getting to the fuel pump isn't fun, its not nearly as dramatic an event to your life as you make it seem. Not even trying to figure a way to syphon gas. is all that difficult. Why cut right through the floor of your car?! When a previos poster, posted it was a hack way of doing things, he was referring to "hacked" from a mechanical standpoint, not a fabrication standpoint. I'm sure some of the doors look nice, some people just couldn't see cutting into their car when all it takes is time to get to the pump.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

grow up buddy, i didnt flame anyone and i dont need to be. You are more than welcome to do whatever you want to your own car, i'll even lend you the sawzall.

Try dropping the tank, its not rocket science, everything unbolts and its not really the horrible job that everybody thinks it is.

Like AmorgetRS stated, 90%+ of the time this access hole is a butchery and not done well. A guy here did one just recently, and it came out really nice. He took the time to make a clean cut, fabbed up a very nice plate to cover the hole and riveted it back down. He used the proper rubber hose to splice the fuel lines back together and the appropriate clamps for the pressure involved. I believe it was a tbi car.

I dont believe you can do this fuel line splicing on a tpi car, the pressure is much greater and you run the risk of the hose clamps coming off, this is why the factory hoses have threaded connections on the FI cars.

I made this point before and i will make it again,

IF you have a car, be it a f-body or whatever, and it has a intank pump. The pump dies and you bring the car to a dealer or other repair shop to have the pump fixed. When you pick the car up you discover that the people cut a hole in the floor, cut your fuel lines and changed the pump that way. You would be right pissed no? You would be deviated that somebody would cut up your car like that instead of doing it the right way. How is this any different?

If the car is a race car, like the fancy trap door pic posted above, where the fittings are all threaded connections and the pump requires constant maintenance, then a trap door is a great idea, but on a street car where the pump will usually last 100k+ miles, where is the advantage other that trying to save some time and work?

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

They make siphons to get fuel out, you dont even have to suck on it anymore.

Even with a few gallons of fuel the tank is not that heavy, just a little awkward.

the suspension comes off with 8 bolts, and the axle does not need to be removed from the car.

I never said it was fun, or didnt involve a little work, but its not as hard as people like you make it seem.

Tice

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

Tice your thread has turned into a little WWE match lol.

im sick of ppl fighting because they think that the way ppl do things is wrong just because they dont do it like that. just because there are 2 ways to do it, doesnt make either of them wrong. just because somebody cuts a hole instead of taking the rear end out doesnt make them wrong. it means they have thought of a different and easier way to do it. does it make it a hack job?? it depends on how somebody does it. you can make anything look like a hackjob. or you can make it look right. im going to cut a whole in the floor and patch it. are you going to say that im lazy and i dont give a **** about my car because i just cut holes in it? you better now because i love my car as much as you love yours. im gonna cut a hole cause itll take an hour instead of an afternoon.

gurkgurkgurk

i had it done on my car, only problem is that i found bout about it only till i dropped the rear axle and lowered the tank and then i saw the welding marks above it.


i agree, it can be a hackjob if done wrong. but if you weld it back up theres no reason not to do it. ive seen some horrible ones where they used a blank piece of sheet metal with some rtv sealant and glued up the hole. utter crap.


but if you want to put in some suspension goodies, like shocks, springs, sway bar, panhard bar, its a good idea to do it when your swapping out the fuel pump since you can probably take care of all of it in a days work

iroc a 86 berli

i dont believe this is a thread about doing the fuel pump by the book. i also dont think the O.P give a rats as$ about how many fuel pumps you have installed the proper way in a few hours.
anyways people dont pull your carpet up to judge your trunk deck lid, so dont worry about it.

Mathius

Oh bs. You came in here with your high and mighty disgust that it's a "hacK" and YOU'D never do it. I mean it's not that hard to remove your rear exhaust, drop your axle, and drop the tank, blah blah blah. Yeah whatever.

Don't tell me how many tanks you've done, I don't give a crap. I've been working on cars and dropping fuel tanks from the time I was 14. I've welded on motorcycle tanks. I've had fuel drip down my arm so long it left a rash.

Don't try to act like f*cking around with gasoline is a good time. Anything you can do to make your life easier is better. Working smarter instead of harder is better.

This is a fabrication board. It's not about stock ***** telling people that something looks rice, or dealer zombies telling people it's not the "right way". It's about thinking outside the box and telling people how they can go about putting an abstract idea into reality.

I don't really care if your feelings are hurt. The amount of negativity on this board towards anything that isn't stock is what disgusts ME.

Mathius

Tice

No, I don't Nor does anyone else, I believe. Thanks for re assuring me it can be done, and thanks for the diagram AmorgetRS. That's really what I was looking for, Sorry I didn't Search *Hangs head in Shame*
On this note, I am leaving this thread...have fun arguing.

Gumby

reason most looked chopped as they use an air chisel to avoid spark n such and over guess the area needed.

88redchicken

I know what you mean about air chisel, thats how my car was done before i got it, but they only c-cut it and then folded it back to get at the pump (which was there second attempt, the first hole was in the wrong spot) then duct taped back together. It just makes me giggle, ive got my car all tore apart mini tubing it anyways so im going to weld a nice patch when im done, but if it were me, id cut a hole in it all over again ( won't need to, not injected ) if its done nice who cares.

Mathius

Tin snips are probably best for something this thin, but an air powered body saw should work fine. We used to use a sawzaw in the no spark areas of PPG when one of my old companies was contracted to work there. I never was crazy about it because in my experience the coil tends to spark, but you're pretty safe on the blade end most of the time, unless you just plain don't know how to use it.

I can see where locating it would be tricky, but IMHO the pictures that have been posted in this thread don't have a wide enough hole anyways, except the one with the aircraft cover. I wouldn't want to cut my arms on the edges of the metal while trying to squeeze into that small space and change hoses. A nice big opening like that square aircraft hinge one showed would be better.

I would do like I said and put a gasket in there, and carpet the hatch lid, not just lay the stock carpet over it. Why? Because what's the point of making it easier on yourself by cutting the whole if you still have to pull the carpet and remove the rear seat every time?

But I'm just trying to help out the people who want to do this to their cars and hopefully give them ideas how to do it right. If it were me, I'd modify the tank and put in a sump and an inline pump. But the hatch would still come in handy if you had issues with the fuel sender.

Mathius

Gumby

Im with most, no way Im nearly pulling the whole rear end to change a FP, no way no how. Unless I had money to spend on redoing the whole rear end stuff since it was apart.

Dumb to take so much apart but only change 1 part.


But the hack jobs will continue until the info is wide spread and known where to cut and how much to do it right. Folks saying how dumb it is will never change anything, folks will then just guess and hack away.


As The majority of folks don't get into taking stuff all apart as GM was to lazy to install an access door like the imports, well they did finally make an access door factory in 2000 then closed the line.

Mathius

Your comment about the hatch door in the late 4th gens gave me the idea to look up the sheet metal, but the diagrams I have available don't show them.

http://www.gm-auto-parts.com/parts.htm

Thought maybe the 4th gen stuff could be spot welded or adapted to the 3rd gen. I mean why not a lot of other stuff fits, including the gas tank.

So anyone got better diagrams or work for GM to find a part #?

Mathius

86camaro383

iTrader: (3)

i dont think anyones feelings where hurt.

Mathius

Again, if you don't have anything useful or constructive to post in this thread, why are you opening your mouth?

Mathius

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

Honestly, guys, this thread has run it's course.... the original poster has what he asked for, same with pretty much anyone else. You will never convince some people that it isn't a "hack" or is a hack, depending on which side of the fence they are on. Just let it die...

regal301

Fords88Bird

So were do I fit in, I dropped the tank supposedly the right way then I put an access panel in ? Tice I've got pics on a thread I started back in 9-08.

Mathius

Yeah well. Not to be a d*ck, but you're a moderator. you could do your job and clean this sh*t up so it's all tech like it's supposed to be.

Mathius

Mathius

Honestly, that's probably the best way to do it. No guess work when locating the hole, no worries about sparking, and it gives you the option of welding when fabbing up the access door.

Still, it's a lot of extra work the first time.

Mathius

iroc a 86 berli

lock it up

deadbird

Amorget isn't the moderator of this forum. He has no ability to do such a thing so, your comment is a little misplaced.