joshh44

well im working on the ol' girl this winter. fixing all the rust inside the car so right now its bare bones besides the dash, steering wheel and pedals. thats pretty much about it.
anyways im planning on a mini tub for the rear end.
my car is strickl a drag car so i want to stick the biggest wheel i can on the rear with out having do to a back half project.
im just woundering where should i cut?
i got a good idea where i should cut but i thought i double check.
i searched up and found afew people who done this. but not to sure where to cut.
is there a quick drawing that someone has made on where to cut?

Mathius

I have never done this, but I can tell you, there is no drawing, unless someone else who has done this before has documented it and made a drawing, or pictures to show it.

Tubbing a vehicle is custom work, typically reserved for racing.

I would imagine the place to start would be to weld in some horizontal bracing to keep the shape of the car intact while you're removing the inner bracing, and then start removing spot welds. Of course you'll have to look and see just what all the inner rear fenderwells are attached to.

Have you gutted the car yet and looked at exactly what you're getting into? This is one of the bigger projects for any car, let alone a unibody.

Mathius

joshh44

the car it totally gutted. no carepet, seats. trip. its all out of the car right now. and how do you remove spot weld? im having a heck of a time trying to remove them.
i been trying to try a screw driver under there and try to beat it abit with a hammer. it takes forever to get one undone!

i know what im getting into. but if i well prepair myself and get everything i need. i can get some cheap aluminium sheets for fairly cheap at the local sheet metal place. i wont have this car ready for the track by summer anyways so ill have plenty of time.

ill draw a line on my car with a marker and see if this would be a good start to start cutting. snap a photo and you can tell me if its good or adjust afew things i want to get right up agaist the "frame rails"
ill probably weld in some tempory supports when removing the inner well.

1fastam

iTrader: (1)

theres a thread about 10 down from yours by greezemonkey,later jimmy

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

pick a tire you want to run. Cut out the stock wheelhousing. Lower the suspension all the way down on that tire and measure measure measure, then cut out the basic shape of the tub and get welding. Definitely not an easy task, but then again how fast do you plan on going? Taller tires will slow down a car if it doesn't have enough power to run them.

joshh44

i belive they are going to be 28 tall slicks. i cant remember how wide they are going to be.
people keep telling me to have them out side the fenders. i think they look retarted that way. i like them under the fenders. ill have to take a look how wide they are. my engine should push about 650hp after im finish the engine build. repends on how much money. im shooting for between 650 and 750hp.
it wont be to much of a problem going down the track.
i think 30inch tall tires could be abit to much. but the rear end gearing will be 4.11. anyways back on topic lol

i know there will be aton of mesuring.
i dont mind stuff like that. i find it quite relaxing. having some tunes in the background helps also. then the dog starts barking. then it wrecks eveerything lol
i would like to keep it so i can drive it on the road. (to car shows and sunday drives and get togeathers) im thinking of making narrowing an axle afew inches so i can stick a wider tires but then the rails of the frame kind of get in the way. i dont want to spend big bucks trying to modify everything.

i have check out the mini tubb project. its what got me into doing mine hehe.
i was just woundering if anyone made a drawing of some sort. if not. then ill have to make a drawing for everyone who is wanting to look to do the mini tubb project.

AlkyIROC

I was able to stuff MT ET Drag 29.5 x 10.5 slicks under my fenders with some minor modifications and ran into the 9 second range on them. 15 x 10 rims with 5.5 backspace.

2 years ago I wanted to put some 32 x 14 tires under the car and did the back half project to stuff them under the car. The back half project also changed my rear suspension from ladder bars to a 4-link. I now use 15 x 15 rims with 5.5 backspace.

joshh44

yeah i checked out your website and i read about the backhalf project.
i would totally love to do that but i dont have a shop or the garage space to do it. once day.

with the rims i have now i believe they are 15 x 9 wide.
im acturally not to sure how to mesure how wide the rim is.
i did once but i dont think i did it right. i mesured it from the far end. to the other far end of the rim and came out with 11"
tires on there now are 235s. not to sure how wide that is in inches.

when you had the ladder bar suspesion.
are they road worthy enough? like to drive on the street at all with ladder bars?
ill have to take a look again on your website with your suspesnion section.

AlkyIROC

I bought my car in 1999 as a street car. I've never driven it on the street. The day I bought it, I started gutting it out to be a race car and it's been a track only car since then.

I don't recommend ladder bars on the street. I installed ladder bars as an easy way to eliminate the torque arm when I finally installed a junkyard 9".

joshh44

would it be possable to run 9 seconds with the stock style rear end suspenion setup?
you said you ran 9 seconds with minimal work to the rear wells with the tire size you had on.
i would like to add 11" or 10.5" wide. wider the better i say :P
i want to put the widest tire i can with out doing a back half project like you did. i took a quick shot of the driver side rear fender and i marked it out where to cut. just a rough idea.
ill have to upload it to the web 1st. ill post it up as soon as im done.

joshh44

here is a photo of the lines where "i think i should cut"
i want to be able to put the 28" tall tires with 11" tire.
so i think ill just make as much room as i make in the wells with out cutting up the whole rear end.

heres the photo.

joshh44

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku


thats the tire im probably most likly to run on.

i know my rims are atleast 9 or 9.5 inches wide. so these tires will fit with out a problem.
i would go bigger but i would need some new set of rear rims which i will get eventrually. but for now these are wha im probably going to be running on for awhile.

ross

You do not need a mini tub for that tire 10'' rim you will have to do some mods like taking an air hammer to th inner fender and tubular lower controll arms. And use a 10'' rim with 6'' back spacing or an 8'' wheel with 5.5 back spacing.

joshh44

your right. i didnt even think about that
good thing i didnt start cutting it up.

i was thinking tho. what i the widest tire can you stick on the back with the mini tubb? anyone know??
would a 12" wide tire fit under there?
i was thinking of moving everything on the rearend when i get the 12 bolt or 9" rear an inch towards the center. gives it alittle more room for the tires.
but thats alot of work in its self right there.
im planning on getting rear coilovers and tubular LCA with the LCA relocation bracket. i seen afew people with a notch or an offset style LCA.
i would like to stick the widest tire back there. more tire on the road more traction?

anyways i gotta head off to work
gotta make some money. but today is pay day!!
i should be getting a new Tranny at the end of feburary!

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

i'm running a 28x12.50 with minimal cutting, although for the spring i think i want to run some 30" tires which will require a minitub. For your build a basic 28x10.50 slick would be fine for that power level, I wouldn't bother with minitubs, moving suspension components or any of that.

joshh44

yeah it would save me alot of work and save me money as well.
ill probably tubb out in the future when i put on taller and wider tire.
im sure this will last me for afew times.

well thanks for the input.
im going to check out how much a 11 or 12 inch rim is going to cost.
i think im planning on keep the same style of rims i already have
here is the rims on my car right now.
i need to put the car on jackstands so i dont get flat spots on the tires.

joshh44

ok i just checked out jegs and i found out the rims on my car are the American Racing Outlaw II

here are the prices between
jegs and summit. ill check out other websites but i thought i get a rough idea.

heres jegs
Size: 15'' x 10''
Rear Spacing: 4''
Offset: -38mm
Price: $122.99

summits are the exact same but they want $97.98

would thos rims work on are cars?
i keep hearing that camaros backspacing is 5.5.
im not to sure what the offset means.
and what is are bolt pattern? is it 5 x 4 1/2"?
if i can rear tire that can accept a 12" tire. that would be wounders for me.
widest tire i can put on mine are 10.5 i believe.
would the 10" wide rim be able to run a 28x12 tire?

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

15x10 with 5.5bs as has already been stated.

5x4.75


You don't want a 12" rim.

joshh44

i dont think they make the american outlaw II rims wider then 10" anyways.
a 12" wide rim would be the max rim i would use at the moment. i could always have it sticking out of the fenders alittle just for drag use and put on the stock side rims on there when going to car meets and whatnot.

you right. that side of tire has already been stated. i forgot all about it lol. duh.

i was looking threw the search and i came across the thread about widening the rear fenders out. that looks like way to much work for me. im not skilled enough yet to tackle that. i might do that when i have a shop and the money and tools and the skill to do that. depends what it will look like once completed.

for now i might just stick with the rims i have now and do a mini tubb in the future when i get wider rims and a bigger tire. or i could do the mini tubb now since everything is out and i wouldnt have to worry about taking everythig out again. it would already been done and then all i would have to do is just get bigger wheels. thats what i was kind of getting to. get it already done now while everything is all ready to tackle the tubb.
im sure i can cut it all out in about a day. and another day figureing out how to but in the alumium wheel tubbs and another day or 2 fabbing them up. or get some already premade to my specs. but that would be alittle more expensive.

joshh44

aright here is another photo. here is my idea on how i would do this.
i would get probaby a 1/8th metal drill bit and poke some holes threw the fender and kinda do the connet the dots type things.
we all remember doing thos when we were little kids.
well i was thinking of drilling wholes and have a light inside the car so when i go outside and look threw at the wheel well. i could see the wholes and the light going threw them. then just take the metal cut off disk and connect the dots. pretty simple i think. and if the hole isnt in the right spot. its fairly easy to repair anyways. it be a fairly small hole.

anyways the pink dots are where i would probably start drilling holes. i probably start out with afew drill holes at 1st and look and go from there and deside where the rest of the holes would go.

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

your cut lines look perfect...I used a step drill to create the right size holes for my saw to "connect the dots" a plasma cutter would be optimum. Wolfe sells a minitubb kit for the 4th gen and I`m 99% sure it`s close enough to use, or you could get universals from summit or jegs in 36"dia and cut them yourself, good luck and keep the pic`s coming

joshh44

thanks. ill keep the photos coming. i wont be home for most of the day saturday so ill do alittle bit of work sunday and most some photos up then.

i would love to use a plasma cutting cut i dont have one haha. ill have to be cheap and use an angle grinder with a cut off disc.
i have a demal tool as well with small cut off wheels but that would just take all day and aybe another day in just cutting lol but a much cleaner cut. i could always make a rough cut now and clean it up the edges after the stock inner tub is removed to make it look like a nice clean cut.
ill do some mesuring and what not to make it more presice cut.

as for buying the tubb itself. i was thinking of getting the one from summit or jegs. i didnt even think about the 4th gen ones. i totally forgot about it in the mini tubb project thread. my plan was making one myself but that would be alot of work. mesuring but its going to be alot of that anyways eather way lol.

didnt you do the mini tubb??

ross

Any new pics or update ?

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

Nope, I got he 38 inch universals from summits , 36ers would fit better, I ended up cutting 1 inch off the front and the rear, but all in all they fit nice for the low price.

Mathius

Again, I've never done this before, but looking at those "cut lines" it looks like he is intending to cut out part of the subframe that holds the rear axle in place. Is this normal practice when mini tubbing a third gen?

Seems like it would weaken the rear subframe. Not good on a drag car, and completely eliminates the point of subframe connectors.

Mathius

joshh44

no new photos or any updates. its been terrible weather since im working on the driveway. rain. snow. freezing tempetures. its not fun working on the car.
im trying to get rid of the surface rust on the driver side of the car. i just got to do where the pedals are at. thats the worst parts on the drive side. once i fix that i just got to spray it down with some proper rust paint and ill start with the driver side tub.

i was looking at my cut lines as well and i didnt think it looked right going right threw where the "framerails" are. looks like its gunna cut it right in half. and have no really any support. if so i could always modify it abit as well. no biggy. doesnt have to be all fancy fancy anyways.

i just went to the store to get some gerocerys and i saw some drill bits. but they are all wood bits. i havnt really found a metal drill bit but i think ill just use a wood bit and just fight it iv done it before. a

i wasnt sure what size to get if 38 would be ok. i think ill get a 38. i rather have to much then not enough :P can always trim it down. its easyer then to add metal

brnrubr4ever

That line is exactly where I cut for mine. I used a sawzall. Also You loose your rear seatbelts, but I was able to retain the rear seat. Not that I need it but I thought It would be nice to have a full interior. Im coming to the end of my "mini tub" project took somewhere's near 40-50 hours I guess. The tubs I used were the universal ones from jegs (same as summits). As for wheels they are 15x10 5.5bs. and 295/50 r15's (for the street wish I would have gone 6.5bs) and I can get a 29.5x10.5 for track use.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

No real need to mini tub it. Plenty of cars are running very fast on 10" tire.

I have a 28x10.5 slick on a 10" under mine, all stock, no cutting, trimming, bashing, plenty of clearnce.
----------
Look at Ed Quays site. They sell nice tubs for these cars, as well as a lot of other 3rd gen race parts.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

pretty pointless to do a minitub when you're not tucking the tire far enough to even contact the factory wheelhousing. I ran 15x10 with 5.5bs and 29.5x10.5 and 28x10.50 for years with no issues. Now i'm planning on tucking 28x10.5W or 29.5x10.5W with 6.5bs and the car lowered more.

brnrubr4ever

Like I stated above I wish I went with 6.5bs, I may eventually sell my 5.5 street rims, but Im getting 6.5 bs rims for my slicks.

joshh44

im hoping to put 11" or 12" wide slicks on the back and have it tucked under the fenders. im not to sure if the rear will let me. i cant remember what is the max width you can stick in the rear with the mini tubb, ill have to look on some mini tubb threads, my friends are saying just have them stick out side of the fenders. i dont want that. i think it looks sloppy and just ugly.
i was reading on someone on here widing the rear fenders but i have no where nere the skills for that just yet. maybe in the future but i think ill be fine with what i got.
anyway. im thinking ill need some of thos off set rear lower control arms.

once i get my credit card. im ordering up some goodies. i havnt started on it yet. i need to buy a frickin welder still.

brnrubr4ever

well the section width on a 10.5w is 13.1" and I can get that under mine I think thats way too much tire for me though. my 295/50-15 street tire is 12" wide. on a 5.5bs rim you don't need minitubs, and they dont stick out they are about even with the fender.

joshh44

i just want to stick the widest tire i can on the back. I think it looks mean. and for me i think even with the end of the fender is abit pushing it for me. i like to have it tucked in abit then having it even with the end of the fender.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

here's mine
28x12.50
6.5bs

brnrubr4ever

Darn I wish I got 6.5bs, Did you end up cutting your springs?

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

those pics are 1/2 coil cut and the heater hose mod, with the rubber isolators removed

brnrubr4ever

Im thinking of doing that but I've got the drag launch springs, Dont think I wanna mess with them too much considering they have different spring rates. opinion on this?

joshh44

i like the 6.5 BS. looks killer

mattsv8_03

iTrader: (2)

xpndbl3 do you have any pics of your mini tub for those tires and wheels
did you get your rear narrowed 1" or is it stock with.
i wantto run the same size tire and wheel . but i what the rear to be lower.
28x12.5x15 et streets and a 15x10 wheel with 5.5" bs.
its a turbo car. and i dont want a lot of air trying to go under the car.
im ordering the offset lcas from spohn. and the rear i can get 1" narowed from stock or stock its a moser 9". im planning on running arround a 3.08 or 3.23 gear.

mattsv8_03

iTrader: (2)

ok they do make either wheel i wnat in a 6.5" what do i need to do to run that
almost looks like a small mini tub 1" narrowed rear from stock and i could run the car 1.5"drop front and 1" drop rear without tire rub.

car_fixer

a 3055 w will fit no tub needed. 10.9 tread width , i have 15 x 10 wheels with a 5.5 b.s. just needed to cut the bump stop off and some massaging of the wheel well for it

comp

you have a brace under there

car_fixer

oh and it ran 9.29 on a foot brake, at like 146 i think, and is usually in the 1.25 to 1.28 60 foot so why do you need more tire?

stroked_n_blown

iTrader: (3)

When you decide to do the really big meats under there, Ed Quay sells some nice pre-formed wheel tubs PN 100-6010. Save a lot of work with those. What class you planning on running? Check to see what the max tire width is for that class, you probably don't need to add any tubs. I'm a bit old and my data is a bit rusty, but it always seemed to me that the drag slicks made for our cars, and the class we ran (without being a full fledged drag racer) was a 10 inch footprint; and that easily fits under our wheelwell.

Michael Beck

Anyone still working on these mini-tubs? I am just about to start on a spare junk car I have here so if I screw it up it doesn't matter. I plan on doing my race car and my buddies race car this winter.

We are both tired of the tires sticking out and getting rubber all over the car. Gets old after years and years of cleaning it off. Besides, it looks nicer having the tires tucked under.

I've been 9.20's @ 146 with a 29 * 10 tire so I'm not looking at putting more tire there, just moving it in-board.

I have ladder bars and coil-overs I my car I did a few years ago. I did not back-half it then but I know I can go bigger with the tubs than mu buddy can. I may make an upper mount for his car so I can put a coil-over shock in place of the stock ones and that way we can lose the coil springs in the back and let him keep his stock tank.

So................ If anyone has some pictures of cars that have been done, especially during the cutting phase, put them up here. I'll be taking plenty of shots while I cut apart this old heap before it becomes beer cans!

Orangepeeler

iTrader: (2)

Beck, glad to see you made it over here. Do a search for the mini-tub project that Greezemonkey did. He took alot of detailed pictures. Lots of good info in that thread.