Comp788

Well I am new to the site and put up a bunch of information in the vBGarage about my car yesterday. For some reason I could only put up the one picture after I removed a good part of the front frame rails. I am starting on some heavy fabrication on my 1982 Z28 Silver State car project . I'll keep it updated as it moves along. I only get 1 to 2 days a week to get stuff fabricated but I have more resources then most shops have. I also have quite a bit of hard core fabrication skills. This stuff I am doing is not for the beginner to do.

I will be adding pictures as I build the frame connectors, new frame rail extensions, transmission cross member, torque arm mounts, exhaust, and other mods.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

hey hey, welcome!
What exactly are you doing in those pictures? Looks like you're chopping your frame rails on either side of the tranny... In order to replace it with thicker material?

I was thinking about doing that, since mine are so bend and mangled, but I wasn't sure if I had to brace the car while I removed them...?

What reason are you doing that for?

Well there's a schwack of info on this site, you should find lots of new ideas and get feedback on your project(s)

DM91RS

I don't see a cross member there...... and also could be installing tubing to run to the rear so called frame rails.

I would absolutely love to run in one of those open road races.

Please post as you go....some of us love this stuff

DM

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

oh ok, read the vgarage, you removed that frame rail for exhaust clearance.

There have been some ways to do that, check the exhaust forum. Some people make up a tranny cross member with "humps" in it, or other methods.

I'll have to see a pic of how you do the exhaust, and how you put in new rails, and tie it into the SFC's. Sounds like a cool project.

taonindo

cool...need a nav? ....tao

Neil87Z28

I've love to see some more pictures of those Lemon's headers. Any issues with fitment?

Kory-88Iroc 350 tpi

iTrader: (1)

subscribing.
This looks interesting
Kory

Comp788

OK I tried to reply earlier today but for some reason it would not let me? Still new to this site learing about how this all works. I'll try and answer everyones questions as I go along.

Sonix: I am replacing the frame rails for exhaust room. I am going to run 3" exhaust from the headers and Y into a single 4" exhaust system over the rear axle. Since the factory frame curves in twards the transmission I had no room to clear the exhaust. So I am cutting out the factory frame and fabricating the new frame rails with 11ga P&O material that I am going to form in a brake at work. The new frame rails are going to go straight back and also tie into the sub frame connectors that i will be building. As I said before I will post picture as stuff gets done.

DM91RS: I will post pictures as I go along. There is lots of work to be done here and it took me almost 5 hours to remove the factory frame rails. To do a really nice job it takes lots of time. I am not going to be using a tubular cross member. I am going to use rectulanger tubing that is .134 wall for the cross member. The frame connectors are 1 3/4" .134 DOM tubing with 7ga sister plates to attach to the factory frame in the front and back. Pictures to be added as that gets built. I have a mandrel bender, JD square modle 4 bender that is air over hydraulic to fabricate my tubing parts. You will see pictures of this stuff being used at a later date.

Neil87Z28: The lemons headers were worth every penny. There was no issue with fitment. Do you want pictures of the headers installed or just on the ground? While they were not cheep. I was very happy with the work that Dan Lemonds did. The weld are beautiful, coming from a drag racing background, and having several friends who are first class fabricators, on a scale of one to ten. They are a 10.

He kept telling me that there was no room for exhaust the way that I had asked him to build the headers (knowing that this was going to be a duel purpose car and have exhaust on it) and asked me if I was sure a couple of times if that was how I wanted them built. With the Spohn cross member blocking any possibility of exhaust on the drivers side, I told him not to worry. I had already decided that the factory rails were going to be removed. They fit great and are 1 3/4" full length header and a 3" collector with a V-band clamp. I'll say this again they were not cheep. The bill was close to $1800.00 by the time it was all said and done. The bottom line is when you hav ecustom headers built, you get what you pay for. I was very happy with what Dan Lemonds did at his shop. They also still need to be HPC coated so the pictures that you will see in the next few day they will be black as I have not coated them yet. I want to get the exhaust done before I send them out to be coated. I am building the exhaust out of 304 stainless steel. The front will be u-bends and straight tubing merging into a single 4" pipe. Once over the rear axle I will go into some muffler (yet to be decided) and probably two 3" tail pipes. Since this car is for the silver state and the street I want to be able to drive it and have a conversation without yelling at the passenger.


More to follow.

rocluvr0013

Glad to have you and welcome! You've got my attention, keep us posted.

Neil87Z28

Comp788,

I'm interested in seeing pics that show how far the collectors hang below k-member and frame rails. I'm also curious how the primaries are routed around the steering shaft, starter, oil filter, and bellhousing. Are the #7 and #8 primaries a separate slip-fit piece?

I'm looking to replace my current setup below with headers that exit inside the frame rails, so I'm interested in what you come up with.

Thanks. -Neil

Comp788

Hi Neil,

I'll get you pictures of the headers one I get them back installed. If you like I can get you pictures of then out of the car on the ground too. Right now I can't really put the headers back in until I get the new frame rail extensions put back in. The plate that I made that spans the rack that is holding up the transmission is in the way to put the headers back in. I have to lift the motor up 1/2" on each side and the headers slide right in. Usually I just do one side at a time. I'll get you pictures of all of the stuff you asked for. The headers are one piece and not slip fit. The oil filter (Fram HP4) and starter (large mini starter) go in and out without any issues with the headers bolted in place. the headers are not "on top of" either the oil filter or the starter. I will also be able to use the GM oil cooler under the oil filter that I purhased. The only place that it is at all tight is on the passenger side in one spot next to the bellhousing. That spot probably has about a 1/4" of clearance.


I see you have a 427 is that a small block or big block? You never know these days. I also noticed that your car is a automatic. That might bring up a different set of issues. I had a few things to deal with as in clutch linkage (82 is a z-bar style clutch linkage) and bellhousing clearance. When I called Hooker and Hustler (headman's race shop) they both were not sure if the headers that were offered would fit. they also told me that the headers would be a slip fit and one of the two brands (I can't remember which one) would have a flat collector on the drivers side. Flat collectors suck for performance and kill quite a bit of power on the dyno.

Brett

Neil87Z28

Brett, it's currently a 427 big block. I've got a 13.5:1 372 ci small block with a T56 planned for this car. No rush on the pictures, my new motor is still going together. I was planning to go with Lemon's standard design header for this car with 1 7/8" primaries. It sounds like they did a custom set for you. Thanks. -Neil

Comp788

Neil,

They did do a custom set for me. I should have put that the headers tuck way up. Ground clearance is not going to be an issue. I still am going to have to trim the bottom of the bellhousing. It is a few inches lower then the bottom of the pan. If you need a tramsmission, flywheel, clutch, or one of the hyd T.O. bearings from McLeod let me know I am a dealer for them.

Brett

onebad82z

iTrader: (7)

Is that the retrofit viper T56 in there?I notice that the shifter lands right in the stock hole?I had to trim the hole in my '82 back to clear the shifter on my '99 T56.So you plan to keep the mechanical linkage with the Lakewood #15015 bell?Excellent thread thus far,very enticing.

MixtureChicken

Outstanding!
This will be a fun thread to watch.

Tricked-Out-Toy

iTrader: (1)

watching........

Comp788

I'll start out answering onebad82z question. The transmission inmy car was custom built. It is the retrofit viper T56 in there but before it was built all of the parts were sent out to be cryogenic treated. So to ansewer your question it is a retrofit T56 but not the one that they sell to the public. As you know the mechanical linkage in the 82 camaro sucks!! I removed allof the mechanical linkage and am using a Hyd T.O. Bearing. I have yet to figuer out the Hyd. T.O. Bearing Master Cyl. yet. Mostly working under the car right now.

Sobackto the update now. Last night I started back on fabrication. I layed out the SFC on my computer and was able to get the drivers side almost done. I took some pictures so people can see the process as I go along.

I am not sure hom many pictures I'll be ableto attach soI might have to do some more postings. I also got the drivers side frame rail cut and bent at work today. I'll put some pictures up of that mocked up in the car in tomorrows post.

The first pictureis the SFC after it has been cut to length. I am bending it in my bender. The bender is a JD Square model 4 and is air over hyd. I am using 1 3/4" DOM tubing that is .135 wall.

The second picture the SFC is half way bent. I bent mine to 54° but the bender had 8° lead in and 8° of spring back. So it has an actual bend of 38° to land onto the front frame horn.

The third picture shows the degree wheel on the bender. Each mark is one degree.

More to follow in a few

Comp788

Ok they only let me put up three pictures so here is a bit more information.

The next two pictures shows the SFC after they have been bent. The first picture is me removing it from the bender and also showed kind of how it all works. the second is after the pass side SFC was bent up too. they were exact duplicates for each side.

The last picture shows the SFC tucked up in the body channel and figuring out the cut angle to the front frame horn.

I'll post a few more in a few.

Comp788

Here is some more on the driver side of the car for the SFC. These last pictures show the SFC after it has been cut to fit the front frame horn. I still need to put the 7 ga P&O (3/16 material) material against the frame horn for support. But all I have to due to increase the gap is to slide the SFC to the rear. The SFC fits tight up against the pinch molding all the way down the body and is not very visible from the side.

Comp788

Ok I need to get back to work but just wanted to complete the pictures from last night. Tonight I am going to start to install the new drivers side fame rail extension and also make the support that is going to come off of the SFC and attach to the new part of the frame.

Brett out

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

thats how I did my fram rail x-member setup on my car it works great !!!

Neil87Z28, thats how I had my x-member before i finished it...

link 2 pics of mine

Team3rdGen

Comp788

Last night I was able to get more work done.I had to remove the DS front seat and the carpet so I could weld in the new section of frame for the DS. I formed the new peice of frame out of 11ga (basically 1/8") P&O material. I had to smash the floor pan flat around the first louver (closest to the trasmission) to make the new section of frame sit flat onto the floor pan. Once it was fitted up I marked where it was going so I could pull it back out and drill holes through the floor pan to put plug welds from the top to secure it to the 7/8" flange that meets the floor pan. Then I welded the entire length of the new frame to the floor pan. After that was completed I finished up the brace off the SFC that is going to be the rear support to the new section of frame. You will see in the pictures that there is a peice of 7 ga material spacing the SFC off the front frame and also at the back. I still have to bend up the plate that are going to attach to the frame in those two mounting locations. The SFC will be tig weldedto the plates and the plate will be mig welded to the frame.

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

...And here I was, feeling pretty good about having a sheetmetal brake at home!

Definitely subscribing to this thread, as Open Road Racing is on my "to-do" list after Bonneville...

Comp788

Howdy all. Well went on a trip for a wedding to St Louis. That took up quite a bit of my fabrication time. So now that I am back I spent the better part of Tuesday and Wed night fitting up the new peice of frame rail for the pass side of the car. Tuesday night was spent completing the DS SFC, fitting and mock up of the new frame rail. Tonight was installation and welding. It came out sweet!! I'll get some pictures up in the next day or two. The batteries were dead in my camera when I went to snap some pictures tonight when I was done. I got the PS SFC fitted but need to add the cross braces to it. It is not welded in yet as I am going to have both of the SFC's powder coated black as well as the transmission cross member / torque arm mount all at the same time. I still need to build my cross member / torque arm mount.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Between this thread and the rear quarter panel widening thread...I'd say we have some REALLY talented 3rd genners!

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Rear quarter panel widening thread? where?

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Quarter panel widening thread 1" wider, wirtually stock looking, and stuffing 335s!

I guess his "restoration", got out of hand! I LOVE it though!

With my GTA, and all Firebirds, you wouldn't hafta touch the rear bumper, or deal with modufying the tailights, because of the way they fit.

Comp788

Now that is some really creative body stuff. I'm off for vacation for 10 days. When I get back I'll be back on my project.

Talk to everyone soon.

vorgath

What tubing do you use for the SFC's ?

Comp788

I used 1 3/4" DOM tubing that was .134 wall thickness (minimum)

super_kev

iTrader: (4)

Are you supporting the car in certain areas since you cut the frame rails, or is the motor/transmission out? I would think that it would flex/sag a tiny bit, or do the SFC's take care of that?

Comp788

Super Kev,

Yes I had the car supported and did a bunch of measurements before and after I cut the frame rails out. Being that I only took part of the frame rail out the car did not flex very much. Only an 1/16" max. If the SFC were installed when I did cut the frame section out it would not have flexed at all. When I welded in the new section of frame I reversed flexed the body to put it back in the correct spot. It was easy to do with some shims and wood. Now that I am back and getting ready to work on my car again. I'll get some stuff done next week. I moved and just trying to get the house settled in before I go back to working on the car. Today all of the exhaust showed up from SPD. Looks great and cant wait to start building it. I am going to use 304 S/S exhaust. I purchased 90 degree bends and straight tubing to build it from. I still need to figure out what muffler I am going to use. The 4" exhaust looks as it is going to be a tight fit over the rear axle and past the gas tank. I am sure it will all work out.

super_kev

iTrader: (4)

Ok sounds good. Thanks for the info.

Do you mean "If the SFC were installed when I didn't cut the frame..."?

Comp788

The SFC were not installed when I cut the frame out. The SFC that I built attach to the new section of frame that I welded in.

If the SFC were installed in the car they would have helped support the body when I cut the frame section out. But being my SFC design they could not be welded in place until after the frame sectin was reinstalled. My SFC attach in two points to the frame in the front. One location is just ahead of where I cut the frame too and the other location is in the back of the new frame section to help support the new frame section and transmission cross member.

I had the engine for the car, in the car when the headers were built. I had a "mock up" block in the car when I fitted everything else.

RacerDad916

Count me in as suscribed. Like those before me, Road Race (A-sedan) Bonneville and Silver State are on my wish list......

Billy

1983Fbody

I like it. A lot.

What kind of rear gear are you going to run? Is there any thing diff. about the t56 gear ratios like a shorter spread between 5th and 6th?
What class are you running in? Don't they run based on average mph? or unlimited?


I don't know a whole lot, just what few things I remember from reading on the open road racing website so sorry about all the q's. It will be fun to follow the build and thanks for sharing.

AlkyIROC

The web site has had a name change. It's now

http://www.sscc.us/

Comp788

So finally I am back working on my car. Not too much new stuff to post, just the basic completing most of the stuff that you have already seen. The SFC's are done and ready for power coating, the trans cross member is done and ready for powder coating, TA mount re-done on the new cross member and the exhaust has been started. I'll post pictures of he exhaust once it is done.

The trans cross member was attached to the new frame rails extensions that I put in. They attach in three points on each frame rail. I used 1/8" tubing that was 1" x 2" in size. The transmission mount was bent from 3/16 steel and the tabs the attach to the frame are also 3/16". I am sure that those parts could have been 1/8" but I was not too worried about an extra pound or two.

To attach the mounts to the frame I drilled holes through the frame (that is why I left the back of the frame open to this point) and welded in small 1 1/2" squares with nuts welded to them. This allowed a nice amount of material for the bolts to attach too.

As you can see I still need to redo the brake and fuel lines and attach them to the new section of frame.

Kory-88Iroc 350 tpi

iTrader: (1)

That looks great. Can you get a side view? I curious to see how low the trans crossmember is compared to stock.
NIce work.
Kory

Comp788

Kory,

I took some side pictures but they came out a bit fuzzy. I'll try taking some more this evening.

Hard to tell how it is compaired to stock since the frame rails are not the original ones. The transmission is all the way up and I clearanced the floor pan to make it go up about a 1/4 higher then it would fit stock.

Comp788

Kory,

Here are some picture that I took last night while I was building the exhaust.

Kory-88Iroc 350 tpi

iTrader: (1)

That looks great. I can't wait to see the finished product. I might just have to do the same thing.
Very nice.
Kory

gray89vert

iTrader: (3)

great work man!

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

I just thought of something...

The two most radically fabbed 3rd gens going right now (probably for a LONG time) are both from Texas. Go Texan ingenuity!

This one, and Phase 1

Comp788

Kory, I have all of the measurements if you need help or parts. I saved all of my files and notes to reproduce.

Comp788

Matt,



Brett

Comp788

Who is the second one? I'm from San Francisco bay area in CA.

I have seen the thread on Neil car and they are doing a great job on it. I still have to figure out how to get some big rubber under the fenders on my car. I'm just mostly working on drivetrain and rear susp right now. Still have to figure out the front susp and front brakes.

The one thing that is nice is not I have lots of room for my 3" exhaust with tons of ground clearance.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

My bad...I guess I was thinking of the Silver State title, as the Silver State Classic Challenge race, here in TX. Is it just for the Texas race, or is there a different one?

Comp788

Stephen,

The only Silver State race that I know about is the Silver State Challenge out in NV. They close down some sections of the highway and run an open class race. They run different classes and different speeds at the event. The cars are usually pretty amazing.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

For some reason (I guess the Silver State label) I thought they were in Texas. I was wrong. Silver State Classic