Firechicken86

iTrader: (1)

So I've decided to upgrade my exhaust after one of my dual cats bit the dist. I've found a setup that I'm quite happy with but I'm wondering if it will work.

So starting first at the engine bay will be these hooker headers:
http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...model/firebird

Then going into this Y-pipe:
http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...model/firebird

then going into this catco dual cat setup:
http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...bird/year/1989

then out into this borla exhaust:
http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...bird/year/1989

What do you think?

99olo

You know, the first people I would ask would be the manufacturers. Ask how closely the end of each segment that you know will work is to the stock exhaust that the next piece would fit into.

Ron U.S.M.C.

If your going to build a header back exhaust system most set the goal of achieving a complete 3in. system. So when you see in Summits adds and inlet and outlet openings are telling you things like 2.5in or 2.25in openings than that 3in. system is gone and replaced with one that will defeat any hopes you had of taking full advantage of the headers.
Any way to know if those parts you listed you must start by looking at the Summit ads that are telling you the inlet and outlet sizes. A 2.5in outlet is supposed to have a 2.25in inlet for a connection.If not you have a problem.

As far as the parts you listed they should connect until you get to the 2.5in CAT outlet because the catback system has a 3in. inlet. That can be easily fixed with an adapter.If you have your heart set on this system it looks like you can make it work.You will be giving up a totally 3in. system. Print out the add for the parts and take it to a muffler shop and have them look it over.
I am not a mechanic so you will need to get confirmation from a pro.

Guest

What a gross waste of money....

Firechicken86

iTrader: (1)

If you have anything constructive to add to the thread, I'd love to hear it. Like I said, I'm new to the exhaust side of things and am just learning.

Firechicken86

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the reply, you have a good point about the diameters, I'll look into different dual cat kits and see if there's one available with 3 inch

Guest

Get:
Used coated set of Long Tube headers
A Mufflex Y-pipe
something to fashion as a "3 I pipe
Optional: muffler

/thread

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The cat won't work; you will need a single cat w 3" in/out, and a Y-pipe w 3" outlet.

You'll HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE those headers. The lame 3-bolt flange will warp the first time you tighten the bolts, and will never EVER seal.

Nice cat-back; but I think you can do ALOT better with some better headers instead of those cheeeeeeeeeepest thing you can find that says "headers" on the box. Might want to look at stainless headers to go with the stainless exhaust for instance.

Firechicken86

iTrader: (1)

thanks for the heads up, I guess they're cheap for a reason. Why won't that cat work? is it because of the diameter of the piping and compatibility with the rest of my setup? my car is stock dual cat and looks like the exact same routing. I would like to keep a dual cat setup if possible

ringo234

In a dual cat system the output of the headers is probably 2.5", that what Dyno Don's are anyway, you need 2 cats that are 2.5" in and out to a Y-pipe that has two 2.5" inputs and 3" output and 3" the rest of the way back.

In a single cat system the same Y-Pipe should come after the headers and before the cat. In this case you would a 3" cat in and out a 3" the rest of the way back.

Firechicken86

iTrader: (1)

So on second thought I'm thinking of just cutting the cat part out of the equation all together as well as making a few updates to my wanted system. So if I went from these headers:
http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...1hkr/overview/

to this Y-pipe:
http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...7hkr/overview/

then to the borla exhaust:
http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...bird/year/1989

would that work?

I do realize that the pipe for the borla is 3 inch and the y-pipe going to the borla is 2.5

99olo

Kind of strange how the outlet of the Hooker Y pipe is 2.5, but the inlet is 3.

Your bottleneck is gonna be that 2.5". It'd work, just remember that's the bottleneck.

Gee, for that kind of money, I'd find an exhaust guy to just do your exhaust from the headers... That's over a thousand dollars, not including the headers! Just my opinion, but you'd get a solid 3 inch the whole way, and your choice of mufflers that don't cost an arm and a leg.

Firechicken86

iTrader: (1)

But borla sounds so gooooooood

99olo

Hey, if you wanna spend the money.

I'm not one of the A holes on here that'll tell you you're an idiot for wanting what you want.

But it'll work; not sure about the whole cat situation, though. That might require some thinking.

Firechicken86

iTrader: (1)

I'm going to consider your option. if I bought the headers and y pipe (y pipe too or just headers?) and brought it to an exhaust and muffler shop you think it would turn out cheaper than this setup?

99olo

No, your Y pipe is what you don't want to buy; it's the bottleneck.

I know my exhaust guy would do a Y pipe on my car all the way back for 200 tops, plus the pipe and muffler(s).

Firechicken86

iTrader: (1)

Damn, now I feel stupid for willing to fork over that much cash haha. I'll bring my car to a shop soon and get a quote. Thanks for the help!

99olo

No problem bud. Let me know how much they say; it'll probably be more than my quote, he's not a "registered business".

Firechicken86

iTrader: (1)

Will do, a quote that's anything under $6-700 I'm a happy camper

ringo234

After looking at his link to the hooker y-pipe that has to be a mistake or else they don't make sense having a smaller outlet than the inlet is just stupid.

With Dyno Don's headers you have two 2 1/2" pipes (1 from each header) going into the the Y-Pipe and only one 3" pipe leaving. Doesn't make any sense the other way.

redneckjoe

nope.


Y-Pipe Inlet Attachment:3-bolt flange
Inlet Diameter (in):3.000 in.
Y-Pipe Outlet Attachment:Slip-fit
Outlet Diameter (in):2.500 in.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ho...7hkr/overview/

99olo

If you wanna run 2.5 inch pipe, it makes sense.

Which you probably don't.

ringo234

Check out this setup from Dyno Don. Maybe the best you'll find.
And going from 3" to 2 1/2" is very restrictive and will cost horse power.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Right:

At this point in history, Dyno Don's product might well be the last decent headers that exist. They're STAINLESS, they actually FIT the car, and they don't have the stooooopid bottlenecks like making them to fit LG4 and TBI stock exhausts. And being STAINLESS, you can get them ceramic-coated, and it'll actually LAST, since the base metal underneath won't rust and blow the coating off. The ceramic lowers underhood temps by a couple hundred degrees; meaning, every hose, wire, connector, plastic piece, rubber part, etc., won't be subject to destructive stress.

SLP used to be the hot ticket but they no longer supply them AFAIK.

No way would I EVER put any non-stainless non-coated headers on a car again. Having had headers since ... well, since probably before most of the users on this board's grandparents met each other, I can ASSURE you, that regardless of any "performance" benefits that any given set of headers may or may not deliver, about THE WORST thing you can do to your car, is to put cheeeeeeep headers on it. Ill-fitting, leaking, rusting, heat-generating, CRAP, is one of the fastest ways I know of, to turn an otherwise "nice" car, into a steaming pile of .... plop. You DON'T want to go there. And about THE VERY WORST OFFENDERS OF ALL, is those ignorant 3-bolt sheet-metal flanges like those Hookers have. Absolutely positively 100% ironclad take-it-to-the-bank as sure as the sun setting tonight CERTAIN to blow out gaskets and leak NO MATTER WHAT you do.

You can buy any number of Chinese cheeeeeeepies on ebay; no idea whether any of those are any good or not. Knowing the old adage about "you get, AT BEST, what you pay for", and that you usually get something a bit downhill of what you think you're paying for to begin with, I am automatically suspect of paying "the least" for ANYTHING. If you pay "the least", then you get, AT BEST, .... you do the math. See "cheeeeeep headers" above.

I would suggest sticking with the single cat; not so much for any "tree hugging" reasons or any such thing, but simply because of, FITMENT. Leaving the cat on there means you can buy parts THAT FIT THE CAR, off-the-shelf, nothing "custom" or "special" or anything like that. Everything stays interchangeable at some level, like it's supposed to. And since a cat is only a bit over $100, it's cheeeeeeper than getting something made to replace it, anyway. There's not really a "cheeeeeeper" "better" alternative.

I'd buy stainless headers and a base-metal exhaust A LONG TIME before I'd go the other way round, REGARDLESS of "sound". Buying stuff for "sound" is about as sure to produce a FAIL as buying a cam for the "sound". Just not wise decision-making, considering the expense and the long-term consequences.

ringo234

Actually some f-bodies came with dual cats from the factory and release and extra 20+ HP.
And magnaflow cats bolt right up and fitment is same as stock.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The factory dual-cat cars didn't get their "extra 20 HP" from the dual cats; it came from a better cam.

But that's a WHOLE OTHER MATTER from getting an aftermarket 3" system. A single 3" system flows AHELLUVALOT more than the stock dual-cat thing.

Firechicken86

iTrader: (1)

Okay guys I decided to go back to my borla setup with a few upgrades. Here's what I have so far:

Starting with dyno don headers http://www.top-downsolutions.com/dyn...with-air-tubes (they come with air tubes or no air tubes, what are the difference and what do you recommend?)

going to dyno don single Y pipe: http://www.top-downsolutions.com/sin...ame=dyno%20don

Cat: Not sure yet (any suggestions)

finally going to borla exhaust:
http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...bird/year/1989

doesn't seem to be any fitment issues with this setup as the dyno don y pipe goes from 2.5 to 3" at the collector and then if I got a 3" in/out cat to the 3" borla it seems pretty straightforward.

Any opinions/thoughts?

ringo234

I converted to dual cats and picked 20 hp. Also Dons headers are Aluminized steel with ceramic coating. I've had mine for several years now with no rust. And mine were built before he went to the Aluminized steel. I also have a 3" catback. 2 1/2 out of headers into two 2 1/2" Cats into two 2 1/2" input and 3" output Y-pipe that flows way more than a single 3" catback system.

99olo

Bud, did you get a quote from an exhaust shop?

If I were you, I'd just get the headers and have them make the exhaust.

Cheaper than paying for the "Borla"-stamped pipe you're buying.

Firechicken86

iTrader: (1)

Did you use the dyno don dual cat y-pipe?

Firechicken86

iTrader: (1)

I haven't gotten a quote yet, I just want to come up with a system as a plan B

ringo234

The Y-pipe is the same for both, only difference in the single cat setup the Y-pipe comes after the headers and before the cat and a 3" cat is used.

On a dual cat setup the Y-pipe comes after the dual 2 1/2" cats and 3" out the rest of the way back.

The Y-pipe is two 2 1/2" inputs and 3" output, both being the exact same Y-pipe.

Don installed my entire exhaust from the heads to the tail pipes with his headers and Y-pipe.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

I would NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT have an exhaust shop build me an exhaust.

Been down that road, can't tell you how many times. Won't go back.

Opening a box, and just jamming some stuff on the car that all FITS and WORKS and UNBOLTS and was MADE TO GO THERE, is just sooooo much better. And the fact that it COSTS LESS is just icing on the cake.

Save the "custom" stuff for those situations where there IS NO boxed stuff. When there's boxed stuff (research already done, guaranteed to do minor details like .... alow you to remove your starter .... , CHEEEEEEPER than "custom" any way you slice it) then USE IT.

If you think the Borla is expensive, go down to your local exh shop and see what they'll charge you to build a WHOLE SYSTEM out of stainless, MUFFLER INCLUDED; and guarantee it for however long Borla guarantees theirs.

No comparison.

{back to the REAL THREAD}

Any good quality cat will bolt right up to that combo; and they all flow about the same as a piece of straight pipe. Catco, CarSound, Dynomax, etc. For example:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wl...t/model/camaro

Pretty straightforward stuff.

Firechicken86

iTrader: (1)

I feel really stupid for being completely stumped over this. But if the y-pipe on dual cat comes after the cats to the 3 inch output shouldn't there b a y-joint connecting the borla input pipe to the 2 cats? or am I getting this completely mixed up? here's a terrible diagram I made to show you what I mean.


I understand (I think) how the single Y-pipe works

Dakota W.

Why not just buy a borla muffler instead of the whole catback system? As long as the pipes are 3" the routing won't affect the sound, because there is really only one way to route the exhaust. For dual cats to work you'll need to run them back into a single pipe, unless you want dual exhaust, and if you do 3" is too big. Cats don't even rob that much power nowadays, no point in buying 2; Just wasting money in my opinion.

Firechicken86

iTrader: (1)

So I should just go with the single cat y-pipe?

redneckjoe

i agree 100%.

ringo234

the single Cat goes where you think. I added a very crude drawing to your dual cat setup.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Like this....

ringo234

thanks Don

Firechicken86

iTrader: (1)

that's perfect, thanks don and ringo. Where would I be able to find that joint cat and small y-pipe that don as attached in the picture there? I would love to get that so I can keep my dual cat setup

99olo

My exhaust was a little over 300 dollars. Just because you use caps lock, Sofakingdom, doesn't make you right.

Chevy2035

I would def take your car to a Exhaust shop close, go to a few of them. Look at reviews.
Watch a few video's on people bolting up there kits, Most of the time bolt up kits are not bolt up. Not to fit right.

splitty

Hey Don, that pipe from the drivers side header, how close is that to the oil pan? Mine is routed like that but is damn near touching the pan. I run an exhaust temp gauge and it shows it can and will boil the oil if not kept an eye on. I am looking for a new system also.

splitty

Sorry I meant oil temp gauge.