Guest

My friend who just put long tubes in his 4th gen Mustang V6 won't stop bugging me about my headers decision. He swears by all that's holy that long tubes sound better and give better performance. Now I can believe him about the performance, but i don't know about the sound. His sounds slightly "tuner" if you know what I mean. So which is better for my L98 street only car, shorties or long tubes, and why?

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Shorties, because you can still drive over speed bumps that way.

5spd-iroc

the performance gains are pretty minimal, i have built a fairly healthy 406 and im goin with shortys for ground clearance and ease of exhaust system, im not too worred about the 8-10 hp i might be losing

1ADan

iTrader: (4)

long tubes would technically net more power on a well modified motor, but the additional hassles of fitment and ground clearance would not be worth it for a stock or mildly modified vehicle. Stick with a quality set of shorties

justcallmeclassy

iTrader: (1)

If you go with a less expenisive brand, such as hedmann, the shorties and lts cost the same from summit. Lts improve torque throughout the entire powerband and I don't bottom out with them anymore than I did without them. I would go with longtubes but that just my 2 cents

ghost91

i agree with what everyone said...but your friend is definatley a loser for putting headers on a v6...and thats why it sounds tuner

justcallmeclassy

iTrader: (1)

V6 mustang too... they're like tampons around here every girls has one

Guest

I give him crap every day about his V6. But he loves muscle, just can't afford the insurance. I'll take that over imports any day(I respect a modified import, but come on, GO AMERICA!) So do a good set of shorties net you any good power gains, along with an aftermarket Y and cat back?

justcallmeclassy

iTrader: (1)

Anything that's not a thirdgen exhaust manifole is going to net power gains, y pipe and cat back further this by a lot

white1991rs

Shorties, theyre easier to install and less expensive. Longs if you have the extra time and money

white1991rs

Get stainless steel though its worth it because most headers will rust out quickly but stainless will last a life time

RyanJB

Our cars are too low to run LTs. I don't think you'll see much of a difference between shorties and LT's unless you do a large amount of modding to your engine.

And of course a V6 mustang will sound tunerish... It's a V6

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I'm not advocating long tubes. In my circumstances they're perfect but that's just my circumstances.

I have cheap uncoated hedman long tubes. They've been on the car for 5 years now and they're not gonna rust through anytime soon. I wouldn't worry about shorties rusting through before your floorboard does if you don't get stainless. Stainless steel (quality grades of it at least) will outlast human civilization... but our cars won't. Id just get what you can afford. If you can't handle paying the big bucks for coated h ooker shorties don't. Get uncoated ones.

By the time they rust out your floorboards will be more rusty or you will have moved on to a newer engine or new car. 5 years and counting on my long tubes and they're fine.

white1991rs

In my opinion its worth the extra cash for stainless because the difference in price is significantly less than the cost of a second set of headers when the first ones rust out. I believe its uncommon for them to last 5 years so I wouldn't base your decision on 1 case where they didnt go bad.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

It's a legitimate concern, but I think it's a bigger deal on your side of the country than mine.

And I got my headers for $100. They're less than $200 new, so it just doesn't make sense to buy coated or stainless ones. I've seen coatings fail on Hooker headers, and there just arent very many stainless headers out there. But if the uncoated versions of your headers are 400+ and you live up North, then I think the priorities change a little bit.

What stainless headers are even available? SLP doesnt sell headers anymore. I know Hawks has some stainless long tubes. And I know there's some crappy cheap ebay china-stainless (who knows if that's any good) floating around. So getting coated or uncoated is the more common option.

But either way, I'd worry a lot more about the y-pipe rusting out than the headers themselves. A stainless catback definitely makes a lot of sense though.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I hear what you are saying, I just hate opening the hood and everything being new but the headers look like someone salvaged them out of a swamp.

The last two cars I built, I've been getting black ceramic coating. You don't have to polish 'em, and I usually paint my engine bays flat black and blocks orange or red so it works out pretty good.

Local guy does the ceramic. Sandblast and coat long tubes is like $175.

-- Joe

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

I ran 68460s, 2210s, SLP 1 3/4s, Hedman 68470s, Hooker 2055s.

Longtubes are worth it to be honest, if you do a correct setup and not ghetto rig. Then its just annoying hearing it scrape everywhere and worry about your investment. By far shorties are better atleast for me. Better clearance and fit and overall quality.

Just remember that there are choices out there like Dyno Don's shorties before going Longtubes.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

When I owned thirdgens, and I had a few from the late 90s to the mid 2000s, it was always "long tubes are not worth it", and I think the reasoning is because the fitment sucks and they cost a lot.

I've had numerous other types of cars, including second gens, where long tubes "fall in" and are under $200. Owners of those cars wouldn't even consider shorty type headers.

The long tubes on a thirdgen appeal to me because you can route the pipes straight back around the trans, and go into a Y collector there, rather than running a hot pipe under your oil pan. I've always hated that design, and often swapping heads to a raised exhaust port meant the pipe wouldn't line up anyway. A deep oil pan was out of the question.

The headman long tubes look like a decent header, it's just too bad they are offered in a 1 5/8" primary size. Given the choice between a short 1 3/4" and a long 1 5/8", I'd take the larger primary size. Since the odds of the primary length being tubed for the displacement and camshaft I'm running is relatively slim, I'm more concerned with getting the exhaust out of the head.

-- Joe

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

This is some BS! The only reason a lot of you people like using longtubes because in most of the states outside of California, you guys dont have to worry about smog checks like us out west. So you put on your car whatever. Some of you young people like very loud cars and will get very upset if pulled over by the police for being too loud.

These cars are not built like 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th gens where you can use LT's.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

How much does it cost to run a complete 1 3/4 LT exhaust system(new everything), dual exhaust and single exhaust. Compare it to the cost of Dyno Don Headers with a 3in cat back system. Also what do you think would be the difference in HP on a stock 245hp L98 5.7? In most cases the WHP is around 210.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

If you dont like the regulations, stop supporting the politicians that push them.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

I dont support those sorry *** Republicans. They want our cars off the road here because of emissions.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Most of the states with strict emissions laws/regulations are very democrat/leftist states. The more democrat a state is the more strict the emissions regulations tend to be. The exception would have to be Texas.

Regardless of party line, fi thats how you feel, vote that way.

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

Longtubes would be wayyy cheaper. It just requires or would be best if you have the skills to fab up a decent Y pipe or what ever setup you want. I dont have this, so Shorties was the best choice for me.

Longtubes are popular for a reason, would I do all this for a stock 5.7? Ha nope.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I'm older than most and don't like loud. I like performance. You can do it right and make it perform, without it being loud.

I used to live in Massachusetts, that had similar policies to California. I moved to the great state of New Hampshire. Although Mass has since eliminated smog checks for cars older than 1998, they still perform visual checks (I'm told).. In New Hampshire, our state laws are very hot-rod friendly. A collector car, that is older than 20 years, can be modified, emissions equipment removed, etc. Although federal "law" exists (clean air act), our state tells the feds "go pound sand". Only OBD-II vehicles get a smog test.

It is very similar to how your state deals with federal laws regarding marijuana.

I guess if you want to smoke dope, live in California. If you want to build a hot rod move.


-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Nice looking setup you have there!


Just to warn you guys, the site has a policy against political discussion. Recently I was asked to change my avatar because it had a political slogan, which I obviously immediately agreed to do because I had forgotten about the anti-political rule. (most forums I'm on are not tech-only like TGO, but also not of the same quality). So just a heads up, I think it's ok to discuss the laws and how they impact us, but we can't discuss the fools that made them.

-- Joe

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Our local Auto Club Dragstrip was just shut down because people that live near the strip complained about the noise an it really sucks. The track was there before the $500,000+ homes. I am 45 years old. Even when I was in my 20's I never had a loud car because the police will pull you over even for no front license plates.

Is it really cheaper to build LT's?

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Depends. If you can fab your own exhaust and crossmember it's WAY cheaper with the Hedmans + a bunch of piping. If you can roll your own you'll always save money. Its just a matter of can you do it without it being a huge sacrifice in practicality, fit, function, and form.

ghost91

what mods need to be done to the engine bay to install headers? ive heard alot about the A/C and some other stuff..wat exactly?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

FYI, Hot Rod friendly motor vehicle laws. If your states laws are NOT like this, talk to your reps or move to New Hampshire:


Saf-C 3220.04 Evaporative Canister.
(a) An evaporative canister shall be required on all vehicles less than 20 model years old, if so equipped at the time of manufacture.

Saf-C 3220.05 Inspection of Exhaust System.
(a) A catalytic converter shall be required on all vehicles less than 20 model years old, if so equipped at the time of manufacture.

Saf-C 3220.01 Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV).
(a) A PCV valve shall be required on all vehicles less than 20 model years old, if so equipped at the time of manufacture.

Saf-C 3220.02 Air Injection Pump/Pulse Air System.
(a) The air injection pump/pulse air system shall be required on all vehicles less than 20 model years old, if so equipped at the time of manufacture.


This covers all Thirdgens. Long tubes, air delete, cat delete, etc..

-- Joe

d00012

Hedman Elite Hedders have amazing ground clearance, they drop down to the same level as the oil/transmission pan. My custom y-pipe (similar to stainless works) has plenty of ground clearance. $760 total.

In the state of WA, it's based off city/town population for our county. Our city has a low pop, so no inspections for us. And only vehicles 2009 and newer, have to abide by California emissions laws.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I would have bought those but they are only available in a 1 5/8 tube which won't fly for my 412" motor.

I picked up the 2210's which means I'm going to have to be careful with ground clearance. Maybe I can increase the ride height

-- Joe