janson33

hey guys,i have an 88 firebird 2.8 v6 173 haha.im planning on making a true dual for it.pretty much my only problem is deciding wut size piping to use.would 2.25 be ok?or should i go with 2inch instead?? i plan on also getting headers by pacesetter,an h-pipe,2 new cats,and flowmaster super 10's.keep in mind im also gonna be getting a cai and a performance chip.probly by performancechiptuning.com i know a lot will say "a 2.8 isnt worth the money"but im really young and i like doing work on it,so im gonna go ahead with this regardless.also if anyone knows of any other good chips plz say so.thx guys im looking forward to getting a ton of opinions cuz i am so confused about pipe sizing here...

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

Doing the work yourself? If so go 2.5'. It is the best size and best to work with and should be wayyy more than needed for your setup and anything you might do down the road. Then again 2' would be enough.

If not and its all a shops work. Stick to a single setup. Get a 3' catback and have it merge onto your stock 2.8 Y pipe or at the cat.

Both options are ideal and best since you can get good use out of both if you ever drop in a v8.

Also skip on the Chip. Head over to the V6 section, alot of good info there.

janson33

Hmmm,dual 2.5's might be too big cuz I need SOME backpressure but thx for ur opinion I will check out the v6 section

janson33

And yes I'm absolutely doing all the work myself

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

No bigger then 2". IF you do it. I dont suggest doing a true dual setup, I don't see a reason to. But if you want to do something like that why let anyone tell you different? Just be smart about it and make sure you know what your doing.

janson33

2's seem lodgical,along with not doing it at all haha but yes im still doing it,and have a rough idea of how imma route the pipes and such.if u think i go any bigger,do u basically think ill have no backpressure and itll just be loud and slow?

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Lets just say that a dual 2.5" set up is good unough for a 425hp 383ci Stroker V8. So it might be over kill for a 130hp 173ci V6 haha.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Illegal, stupid, pointless, impractical, and it will just end up being obnoxious. People dont want to hear loud v8's waking them up and v8's can sound very good. No one wants to hear that v6 over their radio.

duf6

I have a friend with true duals on a v6 mustang, headers to cats all the way out the back no mufflers. It sounds ok at idle and slight rev but at about 3000 rpm's sounds like a pissed off bumble bee. It's not super loud but probley sound better with chambered mufflers.

justcallmeclassy

iTrader: (1)

janson33

wont it sound like a beast rather then a pissed off bee? haha and how is it illegal?cuz ima have cats on it,and im from canada.

janson33

ok well i can see there isnt much difference in everyones opinions so far haha and im not surprised.i hope someone on here that has maybe done it will tell me wut theres sounds like and wut the hp difference was before and after...

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Very few people on here have true dual. Those that do usually have a V8. And thats for a reason. I think I remember one guy who had true duals on a 6 though. I'll look for him later.

janson33

ya true,i mean the way the underbody is made,it isnt easy to make a dual that doesnt look like complete s h i t,and yes,v8's will benefit more from it then i will but i think building it will be fun,and bolting on the headers and everyting else.but ya thatd be really cool of u to find him thx a lot man! i could use all the opinions i can get on this

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Im not familiar with canadian regulations, so perhaps they are less strict than in the US.

Regardless, it's just gonna sound loud and boring. V6's just dont sound good. Crossplane v8's sound good just because they have such a warbley, pulsing type of sound at idle. Single-plane v8s sound good just because they're essentially a pair of 4-bangers sharing a crankshaft, and there's some interesting harmonics at play there - plus the addition of tuned exhaust systems (very easy to do on a crossplane v8, in fact thats a big part of the reason to make one) makes them sound really interesting.

Loud 4-bangers sound dull and flat. Loud v6's sound dull and flat. Even the Nissan GTR v6 is pretty garbage sounding in my opinion. Grand Nationals and Turbo Regals always impress at hte track - those things are MONSTERS, but they sound like garbage if you ignore the neat factor of the turbo.

Even then, let's assume v6's sound good. Your car will be loud... and slow. Is there ANYTHING in the world worse than a LOUD and slow car? What's worse is that, because it's a Camaro, and it's obviously not a v8, everyone will KNOW it's slow. Forget the fact that thirdgens are pretty slow to begin with... because some people are aware of how slow the v8 cars are, and they're also going to be the ones that are aware of how pitifully slow the v6 cars are in comparison. And then there are those who think the v8 cars are fast, and they're gonna automatically assume the v6 is slow.

So you're just gonna be a poseur in a slow v6 that annoys everyone with it's blatting.

Lets go another step. There is NO room in these cars for a dual exhaust. The ONLY reason to run dual exhaust is if you're running long tube headers and they dump on different sides of the car. So you have to do something with them - duals are the only real solution. Duals are a necessity with long tube headers - do YOU have long tube headers? Or are you running manifolds? Cast iron log manifolds on a v6, into a dual exhaust system? Really? And you're gonna ruin your ground clearance in the middle of the car even with a 2 inch pipe because it has to run UNDER the crossmember - there's just no other way.

SO lets recap:

1. No one wants to hear loud v6's, they sound like garbage.
2. People tolerate loud cars when they're fast, then it's kind of cool. Still annoying, but at least there's a reason.
3. Dual exhaust is for running long tube headers. If you're running shorties, you need to just do a big single pipe. Duals are a waste of time.
4. You're going to ruin your ground clearance and irritate everyone and it's not even for a performance-oriented reason. It's for sound... that sucks.
5. Everyone is going to know you're slow, and if they assume you're one of those crazy guys who threw a turbo on your v6 to smoke the v8 guys, they're gonna ask you, and then you're gonna tell em "No I just put dual pipes on my manifolds... it's stock"... and everyone is gonna be disappointed and perhaps a bit amused - in a bad way for you.

Even if you get headers.... it's still just a stock v6. 100 hp to the wheels maybe? Why bother? Get a 305. People cant give those away - you'll get it free.

gmstrong

The problem with 2" pipe is finding a good muffler super 10 only comes 2 1/4 iirc.i know the flowmaster 40 comes in 2" i think the thrush weldeds do to i love those mufflers especially for 35 bucks.

janson33

hmmm,ur knowledge seems fairly convincing.idk if its cuz youve heard a buncha v6's with a dual,or ur just making an accurate guess as to wut itll sound like,but i can see y there is a reason they dont sell true dual systems for our third gens.u may know that there IS one on autopartswarehouse.com and i woulda got that,so i dont have to make my own pipes out of a bunch of small ones from crappytire haha but there system is with 3 inch pipes like wut the eff? even a gta wouldnt need that.anyways im trying to get a lotta opinions cuz idk as much as most ppl would on this site.anyways im thinking of going with 2inch pipes,then after the h-pipe get an adapter and go 2.25's,and then after the mufflers,make the tail pipes 2.5's just for sound,then put my 4 inch tips on

janson33

no no its alllll good. it does NOT matter wut size the muffler inlets and outlets r cuz idk if there is a canadian tire in ur area,but i live in the middle of the city and there r about 5 i can go to.they have ALL the reducers and adapters for exhaust u need.they also have all the mandrel bent elbows,with multiple varieties of the angles,in all sizes,and of course regualr pipes with no bends,and clamps in every size.AND hangers haha and exhaust patch and anything else u will need

janson33

ya its always nice to get something good for a cheap price.i have never heard those thrush welds,or at least that i know of.i love the sound of my current 80 series,so imma stick with flowmaster.everytime i see i modified third gen around,and its parked,i look under and wut have i seen every single time?a flowmaster 80 series haha!so ima take it up a notch and put super 10's on mine.i luv flowmaster and every car i get ima probes put a flowmaster super 10 or 40 on it.i wanna get an h2 by spring next year for a year round car,then drive my firebird in te summer only

Andrew James

iTrader: (3)

This guy.

New2Chevy

iTrader: (11)

You don't need a true dual setup. I guess you're bored?

janson33

Ya I realize that it is not necessary but yes I am kinda bored lol and it'll make it sound better.I have finally decided to go with 2's so it won't be so overkill like 2.25 or 2.5's would

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mENh9Vyijac


that's 2.25" TD's on a built 3.5 60v6 with Hooker Aerochamber mufflers off of longtube headers. Once i installed the X pipe it got rid of that rasp when he took off down the road.


Not saying your stock 2.8 will sound anything like that though...