formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

That sounds like a challenge to me...

built91Z28

Thats one of the reasons I did it. I could have used a Jegster TA and then made a Y pipe and ran a single pipe out.

I can tell you though its not for the faint of heart or the begginer welder/fabricator. I'm by far no expert, but I do have a few years expierence at welding.

91camarosRS

iTrader: (5)

Sorry but in a hurry. This guy has something via. MIGht be a good idea. Look at his Sig.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/member.php?u=1632

New2Chevy

iTrader: (11)

I heard that long tubes hit the slave spacer on the bell housing of the t56, and what if you want a crossmember mounted torque arm??

I say Dyno Don's 1 3/4" shorties would be easier and would work well

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

T56 and 4th gen swap crossmembers have the transmission mount about 2 inches farther back. This puts a lot of extra torque on the crossmember mounting bolts. They can and will pull themselves out of the frame rails, potentially damaging them in the process. I would never run a trans crossmember-mounted torque arm. Make a separate crossmember for the torque arm that the trans isnt hanging on.

And I clearly have pictures of my car earlier in the thread, MY long tubes dont hit the T56 anywhere, and even then, I've never heard of any T56's that dont clear Long Tubes. Its always the T5's that have issues.

And Dyno Don's shorties are very nice, no doubt, but I got my long tubes for $100 bucks. THe muffler was $100. The piping was all of $150 maybe. Probably cost less than your Dyno Don shorties by themselves. If thats the difference between being able to afford a T56 and not being able to afford it I think the better solution is obvious.

New2Chevy

iTrader: (11)

Where do you put the torque arm mount?

New2Chevy

iTrader: (11)

I mean where do you put the crossmember for the torque arm mount?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

Across the car from subframe connector to subframe connector.

New2Chevy

iTrader: (11)

Why would Spohn make the part of it didn't work properly? How is the crossmember stressed more because of the mounting location?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

everyone has a different opinion on it. i don't care for transmission crossmember mounted torque arms at all. it puts weird stress on the mounting holes, the ta has to be shorter, so the mount on the crossmember is further back because of the mounting location of the transmission, thus giving the torque arm a longer lever against the bolt holes. unfortunately, if you cannot weld, you have to pay someone to put the new stand alone crossmember in, or you're limited to something like the spohn unit.

spohn makes good stuff, but the TA being on the trans crossmember makes exhaust clearance almost impossible though.

tell you what, you bring your car down here with your spohn torque arm and dyno don headers, and we'll line you up with kyle's car that has longtubes and a trans mounted ta and we'll see how well those things stack up

New2Chevy

iTrader: (11)

I'm not challenging your knowledge it's just I thought I was set for my LT1 swap with the spohn stuff but maybe I shouldn't go that route?

I'm just running a single exhaust so that won't be an issue. But maybe it's a strength issue now?


QUOTE=mw66nova;5116295]everyone has a different opinion on it. i don't care for transmission crossmember mounted torque arms at all. it puts weird stress on the mounting holes, the ta has to be shorter, so the mount on the crossmember is further back because of the mounting location of the transmission, thus giving the torque arm a longer lever against the bolt holes. unfortunately, if you cannot weld, you have to pay someone to put the new stand alone crossmember in, or you're limited to something like the spohn unit.

spohn makes good stuff, but the TA being on the trans crossmember makes exhaust clearance almost impossible though.

tell you what, you bring your car down here with your spohn torque arm and dyno don headers, and we'll line you up with kyle's car that has longtubes and a trans mounted ta and we'll see how well those things stack up [/QUOTE]

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Feel free to read through this and draw your own conclusions:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fabr...hn-torque.html




It does happen. Not saying it WILL happen or might or might not or probably will happen. But it can, and it has. I decided to go a different route. And I dont mean to knock the aftermarket suppliers who build us all kinds of awesome parts, but these things are very often overbuilt instead of over-engineered. They dont have access to GM's design documents and engineering studies. They don't have extensive data covering every possible permutation of engine power, transmission, rear end, tires, brakes, exhaust, etc etc.

They make parts that people want, and they build their parts not to break. Soemtimes they break anyway (Like redraif's tubular A-arm), and sometimes they cause other problems, like what I just posted.

You cant just throw parts at a car and not take into effect all the possible side effects. The aftermarket suppliers are very clear on their websites that their parts are intended for "off road use" only and they are not liable for any damages to the part or car from use or abuse. It's up to YOU to decide whether or not you're comfortable with a given part, because you are the only one that will be taking care of the aftermath.


http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657810...rebird/page-10

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...arm-broke.html

Just because some guy made it, powdercoated it, and sells it online doesn't make it a safe or good idea for you and your car.

New2Chevy

iTrader: (11)

Did that car have subframe connectors welded in or not?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

why not contact the OP of that thread, instead of cluttering an otherwise informative thread about y-pipes and longtubes?

New2Chevy

iTrader: (11)

All right.

On the subject of long tubes I've been wanting to see comparisons between long tubes and shorties on the exact same engine.

Seems like some guys install long tubes no problem but other guys have problems. Weird.

I guess I would do long tubes for an extra 15 or so horses but I don't want a dual exhaust. Still trying to decide what I want to do for my street Camaro.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

kyle's car is street driven, and has single exhaust, and has longtubes. the torque under the curve is what the longtubes improve the most, not just peak HP numbers. torque under the curve is what moves the car and makes the "seat of the pants" feeling enjoyable.

New2Chevy

iTrader: (11)

Whats Kyles screen name?

And which aftermarket long tubes fit the easiest with the t56?

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Im Kyle. Pictures of my setup are earlier in the thread.

Any of them will fit easy as far as I know.

The only concern is your info says "LT1", and I think the D-port Hedman LTs for LT1's have some weird fitment issues unrelated to the transmission. Could've just been on that car, though...

But in general, both Hedman LTs, Hooker LTs, and the Hawks Stainless Works LT's will all clear the T56 bellhousing. The only ones that are even close are probably the Hedmans because they tuck up into the frame rails.

If you just want something you can buy and bolt in shorties are the way to go. Dont bother with long tubes if you dont have a way to build a custom exhaust for them.

Long tubes have only marginally better peak horsepower ratings. The horsepower is pretty much the same beyond peak torque. I think Dyno Don has a thread where the LT's made 5hp more than the shorties on a 500hp engine. What long tubes do is build more torque below the peak torque point in the RPM range without sacrificing high end power, and that's a rare combination. It's sort of like an exhaust crossover (ie x-pipe/h-pipe) - all it does is help build torque in the low range. So you could in theory run a larger cam with long tubes. You get more horsepower at any given RPM in the low range, and then once you get to the high RPMs it's a wash. And that "low range" is the street-driven range.

Once you get into a high enough power range shorties do start to hold you back, but mw66nova knows a lot more about that part of it than I do, my car isn't fast enough. But my car has an unbelievable torque curve, partly due to my vortec heads, partly because I have a manual trans, partly because of my exhaust system, and partly because it's a little undercammed, but at the end of the day the thing is a great street car.

I would hypothetically suggest everyone go with long tubes just because it makes for a more torquier low-end, but with thirdgens there's no room under the car to run it, so I pretty much would never suggest going with LT's unless you're making a ***** to the wall drag car - but that's just because the guys in drag cars arent as concerned about getting over speed bumps and making it streetable. The exception to the rule is T56 cars, just because there is so much room to run the exhaust through the trans tunnel, but you'll need to get a custom crossmember and build yourself a system to take advantage of it. T56's just make it possible to do it without having to make huge sacrifices in ground clearance like everyone else.

New2Chevy

iTrader: (11)

I was set on a single exhaust a long time ago. No need for a true dual. It's just overkill on most of our cars....the only thing I haven't been able to decide on is shorties or long tubes...if I were to go with shorties I may as well stick with the stock manifolds..... pretty much.

Ive been kickin this around for over a year now, and I'm probably going to go with custom tri Y headers. I know I don't NEED them but I have put down some pretty serious dough on my LT1, so I might as well not skimp on my headers. Plus... Tri Ys would just be frickin cool. Not to mention, they would make for some nice torque at street driven rpms, especially on a 383

The guy who is moving his shop to Casper here knows what he is doing when it comes to building tri-Y headers. He is also going to have a chassis dyno. Yay!!! FINALLY a dyno in Wyoming AND IN MY TOWN!!

Heck I'm spending all my money on everything else. Might as well slap down $1100 for some sweet custom headers and some tuning.

Since I'm not gonna be launching at 4000 rpms I'll just run the factory torque arm to the t56 tail.

On a side note, since the xmember mounted torque arm was mentioned in this thread....I found a "trak pak" at Hawks that allows simple weld-in installation of a crossmember and shorter torque arm for anyone who wants a non tranny or Non tranny xmember mounted torque arm. The xmember has a hump in it for a y pipe for a single exhaust which is all we need for our cars anyway. It's $419 but worth it for someone who can't weld or doesn't want to weld and fabricate their own parts.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

yes, the "trak pak" is made by BMR, and the very ta i was referring too. burkhart chassis is another that offers a similiar setup. madman co has one too.