rb89gta

third, when I get it built. Iwill let you know for sure where this engine ends up.
some engines I have built, I have had to fly cut the pistons for valve clearance, mill the deck and / or heads in order to get everything where I like run my engines at.
FINALLY, I have not posted / told anybody, where they need or have to do anything!
I simply offered up my build as reference to the fact that what this gentleman is building is not the most radical 400 sbc engine on the ever built & to assure him that ... as long as he has a SOLID block good high flow water pump, radiator, and ignition system he can easily build a safe and street friendly sb 400, 406 or 409.

1gary

SCR-Static compression ratio

DCR-Dynamic compression ratio.

Quench should be in the range of .035 to .045.


http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Quench

rb89gta

Well the quench is roughly going to be .055-.060,( .045 gasket c.h. + .010 -.015 ) just depends on the block at this point, not able to mock it up. waiting on pistons, and the time to run to the machine shop to get it bored and honed .

rb89gta

As far as quench is concerned, there are many different opinions on it, from engine builder to engine building literature . at the school of automotive machining (SAM), the books say up to .040 is the safe zone, until you get to .060 then quench becomes irrelevant . I have found in the several 377,383&400 builds that I've done that at .055 or greater, it's irrelevant . scr will fall in at 11.47-11.55:1, dcr won't be able to give numbers until it's assembled . again, it's being built .

rb89gta

Sorry, just waking up, machinist not machining. ( SAM )

rb89gta

Anything new with your build?

SouthSide2

I am thinking. You have this runing .... Paint us a piture.

rb89gta

Southside, at this point I am not sure if your question is directed to me or Soul.Justice?
I simply started out giving a tid bit of info on my build, to help put Soul.Justices mind at ease about his concerns with his build . Then people started in on me and this thread has gotten off it original path.
Soul.Justice, I truly hope that your build goes as planned & that you get what you wanted out of it.

soul.justice

My only concerns right now are my decision to go with a stock crank and how empty my wallet is after i paid the machine shop last week it ended up being $300 more than what I was told the final cost would be, but it is what it is I guess

SouthSide2

This is just my thoughts. If you are planning on running this engine on the street which you are. Stock crank is OK ... so long as you don't hold the RPM's at 4500 or more for along time. This is just my thoughts... I think vibrations set up a destructive force. It is the same thing as breaking a wine glass with sound wave.

Race engine bluider's speak up. Harmonic vibrations kill

rb89gta

The very first 400 that I built was a stock crank & .040 over bore. The block was 509/010 casting, the crank was externally balanced . I to was miss led into using a 5.7" rod.
So Ibought the best I could afford, at that time it was a set of Manley h beam 4340 rod

rb89gta

A good balancer and flexplate. I used a set of K.B. hyperuetic pistons, moly rings and King bearings .
I was also miss directed on which heads to use & spent way to much money building a set of 462 casting double hump heads, had 2.02 & 1.60 valves put in, springs to match the comp 292. Flat tappet cam & lifters .
a single plain intake and a holley 750 carb.
It made 508 hp & was all done@5800

1gary

My point is two fold:

That quench is a anti denotation tool.If not used correctly the amount of concessions in other area's leaves too much on the table while running pump gas only.

That if that is truly the SCR on pump gas(I have some doubts about that),it is way too high for pump gas only.That SCR has to be supported by a matching cam as well as in other area's.

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w..._compatibility

That no amount of DCR is going to compensate for a SCR that high with pump gas.That the only hope would be to mix race gas with pump gas given a higher percentage to race gas.

rb89gta

1gary, this thread is not about my build!
And, you need to get off the computer, go out and smell the exhaust ... lol, man I really don't care what the cronies on that other web page says because I and several other guys HAVE BEEN RUNNING 11.5:1 on 93 octane PUMP GAS! for years .. haha ... WOW! HAHAHA .. YYYOOUR KILLING ME SMALLS!

1gary

I all due respect...........the formula's you using is flawed in respect to SCR's then.Thus the advise is flawed as well.

rb89gta

While your cruising the inter web... go check out the school of automotive machinist, it's in Houston, Tx.
Tell them that ALL THE LITERATURE AND YEARS OF REAL RACING EXPERIENCE THEY HAVE IS WRONG ....based on some bull you read on the internet.... BONJUOR!
Because, that is where I went to learn how it's really done

rb89gta

Since 1gary keeps coming after me... and my engine is still in the building stage, if you want to see and here a similarly built 408 running on the dyno .
go to YouTube, type in 408 sbc 665hp. then you can see an 11:1 COMPRESSION SBC RUNNING ON PUMP GAS!

MY-92-RS

iTrader: (3)

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!
I will come out of seclusion to tell you how it IS!!
(RB89GTA) used to build race engines for street, strip, and the dirt track with a dabble in 4x4’s plus some speed boat action back in the late nineties out of THE SHOP!! That I used to own with our best friend in the world (LIL WAVE) smack dab in the middle of central TEXAS .. The small block Chevy 400 was and still is a great foundation to build reliable power out of!! We built many of them... The entire focus of this thread is gone to crap!! Let’s quit bashing each other over the head with UN-calibrated torque wrenches and computer key- boards and get back to what is important BUILD A THIRD GENERATION F-BODY TODAY!!!
NOW IF YOU DON’T MIND!! I AM GOING BACK OUT TO THE GARAGE to work on my low ball 403 dyno- proven horsepower 357 CID small block back up motor …
Which I would not have to do if I did not use up my main engine that (RB89GTA) built me in 07...
It only made 505 horsepower and 479 ft tq Naturally Aspirated though the tires on a mustang dyno out of a little 377 CID motor in MY-92-RS back in 08...
(RB89GTA) I need those new heads you built for me for the 600+ hp version of the old 377…OK you caught me I am going to punch it out to a 383
Quit squabbling get off the computer lets build some bad *** cars !!
ALL Praise THE THIRD GEN in THE Highest !!!!!!

rb89gta

Ahhh!
But "DAD"... WE WAS JUST ABOUT TO GET ALONG ...hehehe B)
Thanks MY-92, WAS JUST TRYIN TO GIVE A LITTLE STREET SENSE TO THE FEW THAT HAVE A CHANCE TO LEARN .

rb89gta

Oh and MY-92, your head & intake package will be shipped on 8-1-14... SORRY, gotta get back in from the road .

rb89gta

Anyways, Soul.Justice... the point that Iwas trying to get to, is this ;
As long as the crank checked out and run good parts to assist the external balance factor, it'll run fine and make pretty good power .
you can still have the rotating assembly balanced, by the way .
take the crank, rods, pistons, balancer & fly wheel / flexplate to your machine shop ( as long as they are able to do the work ), and have the whole assembly balanced

rb89gta

Don't forget to have the engine clayed, before the balancing! just in case they have to fly cut the piston's.
I don't know all the details of your build, so what I just mentioned may not even apply. I really would like to hear more about it from you all the way to the end with you being happy with what you have .
for. me it's always a pursuit for how much more can I get away with B-)

1gary

Aaaa let see.National win in London Ont Super Gas,Started drag racing back in 1964,Build not bought engines,A number of regional Super gas wins,Customer list that for now going on 4 yrs we are not accepting any new customers,and yes look who is call the kettle black.Keyboard jockey?? Well isn't that apparent??.

Put up or shut up.List part numbers and engine spec's.We'll see what's what.

And to the proud Dad,can't blame ya,but if the advise is going to end hurting the innocent,that can't happen. Most guys don't have the funds for a second build/do-over on here.

Oh yeah,didn't mention the dyno rm job I held for 7 yrs working at the Chevy engine plant either.

rb89gta

LIKE I SAID, THIS THREAD IS ABOUT SOULS. BUILD ...NOT MINE!!!
WHEN I GET TO THE POINT OF PUTTING MY ENGINE TOGETHER, I WILL POST WITH PICTURES AND GENERIC INFO ( I DON'T KNOW A SINGLE ENGINE BUILDER THAT WILL GIVE EVERY LAST DETAIL, LET ALONE EVERY PART # ). AND NOW I HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHERE YOUR MIND IS AT...
LONDON, WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD A DIFFERENCE IN OPINION! BECAUSE WE LOOK AT THINGS FROM DIFFERENT PROSPECTIVE .
So, lets just agree to disagree .. you& I will be able to give some interesting different approaches to building an engine & let the other people on this forum choose what information they think will serve their needs .
We are supposed to be here to enjoy the company of similarly minded people with a passion for Third Gen's.
Back to you Soul.Justice.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

all this talk over scr/dcr and it really doesnt matter all that much. make sure its in a safe range and move on. all the performance/power is in the heads/cam/intake, dont waste your time worrying about trivial crap.

gary i still think your full of sh$t.

rb89gta

DIGGLER.....AHHhhh, I don't know ya, but Ilike your style!
I just hope we can get back on topic, I truly love my car.. MY WAY!
and enjoy the company of others that feel the same! I like to help people ... and try my best to show that there is always a different way to do anything . I don't have ALL the answers, but I do have real life experience both good and bad just like everyone else!
Just tried to help a guy relax a bit about an engine I have & still continue to enjoy building .

1gary

I'm not mashing words with you.If your going to tell me your getting that kind of compression with stock 400 rods,that isn't valet info.In fact it it totally wrong.

rb89gta

1gary,PLEASE! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!! BEFORE YOU POST ... AT LEAST READ ALL THAT WAS WRITTEN!
DON'T JUST SKIM THROUGH, BECAUSE YOU MIDS THE LITTLE DETAILS .
I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT STOCK RODS!

MY-92-RS

iTrader: (3)

Son I wold not worry about it ...you can not fix stupid lord knows I have tried but they just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience every time !!! the point of this tread is lost .. this needs to be locked now

rb89gta

Soul.Justice, I am truly sorry!
HIT ME UP IF YA WANNA B.S. ABOUT YOURS OR ANY OTHER ENGINE BUILDS
AND GOOD LUCK ....
I'M OUTTA HERE

1gary

Well Dad.The two of you could grow some and buy a aftermarket block.That way you don't have to prove your worth.I mean not playing around with the thin wall/thin deck 40 yr old junk.........Yeah,yeah,you sure can't teach stupid.

1gary

Soul.By now I am very sure you have a handle on the value of advise given on the net.

I'll also offer my PM's to you.Be confident in the answer you get from me are backed up with about the same ones from multi forums and guys that like me that are real street builders. My best advise to you is do not base your build off others adventures. It's you money and all I am trying to do is advise you how to use it wisely.

soul.justice

Given that I'm just a dude in his mid 20s with a set of tools from Lowe's and have only done a stock rebuild on one motor before I am the last person to debate with guys who have been building race motors for 40 years...

...but being that rb's running a compression ratio so high, on ancient blocks, with no computer controlled timing, or even a computer to speak of which will be more accurate than any human could ever be AND change things on the fly on the order of microseconds (I know the computer argument has been beat to death and its a discussion for another thread), the man is either dangerously wrong, really f'ing good at what he does, or really f'ing lucky. That's not for me to judge.

And its really kind of pointless for my thread. I know enough about how engines work that I knew I wanted to keep my static compression ratio lower (but not TOO low) because my main goal for this entire build is longevity, even more than power. I do not have the patience or resources to experiment with pushing it higher and fiddling with my timing so I don't blow a hole in the top of one of the pistons. That is a non argument. I will welcome any and all opinions on my build because while I can put it all together and know enough that I won't run the risk of having a spun bearing 500 miles after it's put in the car, there is a lot I don't know as well. I didn't know about quench, for instance, and I read for a good few hours on the matter which helped me have more meaningful discourse with the machine shop about piston selection. That is the kind of information I need. I think I understand what rb was getting at- that I'm doing a pretty tame build and I shouldn't worry about parts flying out of the motor at interstate speeds. Yes, its fully possible that I'll have the thirst for more- maybe once my fiancee is able to work again and we are back to where we were before she lost her job two years ago, I would love to be able to experiment with a supercharger. And when that time comes I'll make another thread cause I don't know s**t about boost. But for now I know what I want with my build- I just need the knowledge of more experienced men to help me understand WHY I need this part, WHAT the benefit is over a stock part, and IF it will help me achieve my goal of having a nice performing street motor that isn't gonna cost an arm and a leg that will also last a while. Rest assured 1gary I have been following yours and Sofa's advice almost religiously because it seems geared towards what I am doing i.e. a fun motor on a working man's budget. I have no wish to play with fire with this build.

1gary

For the sake of readership Soul.The physics(mechanical) and chemical(pump gas) laws doesn't change no matter who you are as a engine builder.Anytime you read about a out of range SCR,your gut should tell you to inquire about the parts/formula as to how that SCR was determined. Old school tech does not apply from the time pump gas changed it's octane.Denotation is a silent killer of engines especially in upper rpm ranges where it is harder to detect.Searches on the net provide many,many formulas that only require you to plug in correct numbers to get right SCR's and DCR's.

And those formulas do in fact apply to "real street" situations and are not just keyboard hero's ideas.

SouthSide2

Gary, can you put a number or a range for builders to hit. I have searched and found that a 7.9 DCR is a safe place to play with 91 octane. This is just what I came up with. Does not make me right...

I am building a 400 in the same spirit as Soul J. I am really wanting to run 87 octane.

For me it's having the torque of a lager cubic engine. As I'm trying to get it from a small platform.

The cule is GM only put these engines in big cars and trucks that was designed for pulling heavy loads on the cheap.and low RPM.

The thing is...can you trust any thing you do to make more power over what GM had in mind? Yes you can... But you have to not think it is indestructible.

I'm going forward with my stock crank and 9:1 vortec build.

1gary

I do think 7.9 DCR could be used. The flip side of that is SCR is a contributor to torque. So your stuck between pump gas's limits and going too low on SCR to run pump gas(87) which is not conducive of a power output.These engines are a system and require a systems approach.A cam that matches the SCR and the proper use of good range quench numbers as a anti-denotation tool is another. So if your running 8.5 DCR and 9.5 SCR with iron heads or 10.5 limit with aluminum heads and a range of .035 to .045 quench with pump high test gas,your not going to leave much on the table.

It does sound like alot of details for just a 400 or for that matter any engine build.Expensive too.

More to post later.....

rb89gta

Your both in the right track, soul.j, that is exactly what my intentions have been .
my current "back up" engine, that I am BUILDING, is using a an aftermarket Scat crank ( because I didn't have a stock one ), but it's still a cast piece . Scat I beam forged rods w7/16 cap screws, I oppted for a forged piston from Probe ( because I plan on making more than 500 hp@ a much higher compression ) . Just buy smart, measure twice & cut once .... lol! just have fun with it.

rb89gta

And guys ya don't have to worry about any more off topic discussion between 1gary and myself ... I simply put him on my retard.... I MEAN ignore list

1gary

But it isn't expensive or alot of detail. In fact I suggest it is all apart of a solid build plan and choosing the right parts and machining. The "D cup" style pistons given correct machining and head gaskets are two tips.What you are getting with the D-cup pistons is a quench ring and a corrected SCR. Rare to find a part that is sort of having your cake and eating too.

The OEM Vortec has a cracking issue.Weird you can find a running engine(unknown if it was ever overheated or not),and as soon as you take them off a donor engine(torque releasing them) they develop a crack.Not all but a fair amount of them. The other part of the picture is given the cubic inch size of a 400,they do really require a intake runner size of a minimum of 195CC.You can't really get that big with OEM Vortec heads.With GM performance heads they offer a 200cc intake runner that was designed with the 400's in mind. Limited to 490 lift springs without additional machining. Pretty much perfect for a torquer 400 in a RPM range and the kicker is they don't really cost that much if you consider what you might have to invest into used Vortec OEM heads to make them usable.

One of the most expensive investments in building a 400 is the conversion to hydro roller cam.But the benefits far out weigh the costs.Not the least of all not having given today's oils,not having to contend with a damaged or flat spot cam on a flat tappet hydro that could potentially ruin your whole engine. The hydro roller cams have the added benefit of way better cam profiles that work better with the performance Vortec heads.

All I'll say about any other issues that occurred in this thread,and I have for yrs on here said it before,"you can only teach the willing".

soul.justice

Explain the conversion, please. Benefits, etc. over flat tappet. Especially for the guy who isn't using a very aggressive cam. The heads are what they are at this point, I can't afford to ditch these and buy bowtie performance heads and I really couldn't have done it before either had I known any better. I still have to get the shop to tap the additional starter bolt hole but other than that unless I am convinced I need a hyd roller conversion I guess I am done with the shop and get to start putting it all together.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Advantage of a roller cam mostly is, elimination of risk of a specific type of catastrophic failure, which has become all too common these days and even the best of the best and the most meticulously careful cannot otherwise prevent. It is money well spent on the front end, as opposed to the cost of cleaning up the mess from wiped-out lobes. When a cam lobe goes down it fills up the engine with metal chips, which then requires a COMPLETE tear-down and cleaning WITH BRUSHES IN EVERY PASSAGE to remove the debris. Just dunking the block in the vat doesn't cut it: the metal shavings don't dissolve in the vat. More people than you would believe, have failed to do this, and after rebuilding a motor into a block that had suffered a blow-up, IMMEDIATELY had their brand-new SECOND motor blow up too, since all the chips in the passages have ONLY ONE WAY TO GO once the motor is built, and that is, RIGHT DIRECTLY INTO the brand-new bearings. Kinda takes all the fun out of this hobby when ya keep having to spend the same money over and over on the same things because ya weren't thorough enough.

A roller cam virtually eliminates that risk. Sure, they "can" fail; but the odds of success are MANY TIMES greater.

In most street builds, the improvement in the profiles that can be had from a roller, is mostly just a bonus; but hey, every little bit helps. Rollers allow a MUCH higher rate of motion of the lifter than flat lifters, thereby getting closer to the "holy grail" of snapping the valves full open instantaneously at the desired point in the engine cycle, holding them at full open for their full duration, and instantly dropping them back on their seat when it's time to close. An unobtainable goal of course, but the goal all the same.

For valve springs I'd suggest these. https://www.texas-speed.com/p-4040-p...pring-kit.aspx Except the hardware in that "kit" isn't right for your heads; you need retainers & keepers for 11/32" valve stems. Call em and see what they can do for you. You can get just the springs and buy the other stuff from Summit of wherever, as a Comp Cams part.

SouthSide2

SJ what did you and your machine guy end up with as deck height???

I ask because just from reading and searching, felpro has maybe, the best head gasket which is .040" thick. This suggests that a zero deck height is required for to have the optimal quench...

I see you are using the KB 168 piston with a 22cc Dcup. This puts you in the 91 octane range. By now I think you have read all the how to make more power stuff, It goes like better heads. Better crank. Better blaa...

Good driving habits are key.

You more later

soul.justice

The block didnt need to be decked when i asked him yesterday so I would say it is stock but i havent measured it myself. They still have to turn the crank and drill steam holes in the heads... i am hoping it wont be much more expensive, I'm already at almost two grand into this and all ive got is a block, heads, crank, and pistons. Guess thats the price i pay for being "different" lol

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

You can drill the holes yourself; no need to pay somebody to do that for you.



Here's what they look like.

Just lay a 400 head gasket on the deck, align it carefully to the dowel pin holes with a couple of drill bits or something, mark the locations with a center punch, and have at it. Use about a 3/16" drill bit. Note that the ones on the intake side of the head need to be angled toward the exhaust a bit, maybe 30° or so; otherwise they will simply parallel the head bolt through the tubular feature in the casting around the bolt, and won't emerge from the material at all until they reach the rocker gallery. You can see how those on that side are oval looking in my heads.

$2000 is CHEEEEEEP. People ALWAYS underestimate the cost of building a motor; the guys that post about "I built this blah blah blah for $600" are usually "conveniently" forgetting to tell you about all the stuff they already had, the brother-in-law deals they got, the stuff they snarfed up from distressed owners who gave up n their own projects and sold for pennies on the dollar because they could wait around for such things to pop up, the machine work they had already had done to parts they used and "conveniently" left out of the new total, and so forth. You're not doing too bad on $$$, really.

soul.justice

No i hear ya and truth be told only 600 of that is actual machine work done by the shop, the rest is just parts bought so far. I dont really doubt my capabilities on drilling the steam holes (ive got power tools, drill bits etc) i just didnt know how i would get the right angle with a regular ol cordless drill and an angle finder without messing something up or getting the angle wrong.

If the cost to turn the stock crank is exorbitant im just gonna sell the crank on craigslist and buy a scat crank. I didnt give much for it and while it was sonic checked the whole thing about their relative weakness has my panties in a wad. I dont want to sink four grand in this just to screw myself cause I wanted to save $200. I may just ditch the stock crank anyway.

What should i use for main bearings? I also talked to the shop about a roller conversion and apparently there is a kit i can buy, is this what yall were referring to? I plan on doing more research today. Again thanks for all the help.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

There's not really "the" one-and-only "right" angle.

You can look up into the water jackets and see where the hole needs to aim for. It's really quite extremely simple, so simple in fact that even a dimwit like myself can successfully do it over and over again without a single failure. No need for an angle finder.

Any of the top-name main bearings are fine; in a stock-ish application, there's no cheese at the end of that maze, so don't run it.

Don't know that there's any "kits"; but don't let that get in the way. You'd need for example http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-12-423-8 cam, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-853-16 lifters, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-3100 timing set, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-7638-16 push rods, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-202 cam thrust button. Obviously there's other choices but that should give you an idea.

soul.justice

Thanks for the suggestions. I am looking into the pros and cons of doing this right now and all i can see thus far for cons is $$$ but it doesnt have to be running tomorrow so i can wait.

Let me ask a question i have yet to see on the board and one that seems to result in heated discussion with my gearhead buddies. Is there any truth in the 4/7 firing order swap on sbc's helping with smoothing out the harmonics of the motor/better cooling?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Pros:

How much do you suppose a do-over due to a wiped flat-tappet aka "cheeeeeeeper" cam is going to cost you? Multiply that cost times a REALISTIC estimate of the risk (odds of it happening... probably 1/3), I think you'll find that a roller might come out to be a fairly good deal. Don't forget to factor in your time, tool rental, aggravation, alternate transportation, being the laughingstock of all your buddies with motors they didn't build aka "appliance operators", and/or whatever else.

Cons:

Up-front cost seems steep, kinda like buying a house and only considering the down payment and not taking into account the monthly note.

Not really... there's been MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of em that ran just fine the usual way for more than the last half-century. Again, lots of maze there, very little cheeeze as a reward at the end. It's a bit like the long-rod thing; sure, maybe there's an advantage, but HOW MUCH? If it even came out to 1% I'd be surprised. Now 1% when you're racing in a real tight class against somebody that's otherwise identical to you, might be HUUUUUUJJJJJE; but on the street, you can pick up more than that for less money and long-term trouble by just a little extra attention to detail somewhere else. Torque-plate bore & hone, zero-deck, stuff like that. It CERTAINLY has no effect whatsoever on cooling.

soul.justice

Well, the whole point of this build was to do it on the cheap... but i agree with you, it would be much more expensive to do it twice (and aggravating). All it means in the end is more time the car is going to sit in the garage. And i suppose if im going through the trouble of a hyd roller cam i should get a good crank. And if im going to do that i may as well get the heads worked for larger springs. And if im going to do THAT i should get better flowing heads and at that point my wife will kill me so in all reality is the smaller intake runner on the stock vortec heads really gonna kill me that much? What can i do to improve them without sacrificing reliability?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

We all have our opinions about heads.

IMO, considering that for ALL THOSE YEARS in between the appearance of the 400 (1970) and the appearance of Vortec heads (1996), the BEST factory heads we had to work with on all those 400s we all built in all those years, was double-humps. Vortecs are better. Are there others that are better yet? Of course. A more appropriate question would be, are Vortecs "good enough"? Well, if a set of 186s was "good enough" for all those decades, then for an equivalent application, Vortecs are "good enough" today. Sure, you're not going to get out there and put a bunch of the Pro Stocks on the trailer with em; but that doesn't mean they might not be "good enough" for the job you're putting them to.

Trick to building an engine "on the cheap", is knowing what matters, and what doesn't, TO YOU, and specifically, IN YOUR SITUATION. Not everyone has the same goals or priorities. I'm picking up a strong thread in all your posts that you want to build this thing and have it WORK and STAY WORKING. It's OK, IMO, to give up a little bit of power or whatever, to obtain that. I'd AHELLUVALOT rather have a motor that's fun to drive, loses a race now and then, but drives right by the ones that beat you when they're sitting in their garage blown up again.

Reason I posted the springs I did is, they avoid the head work problem. Sure they're "expensive"; but compared to a bunch of machine work, .... they're A DEAL.