hartsmike

I was watching Stacy David other day and he "rebuilt" a 350 and it didn't cost no where near the price of a crate engine. In all reality, what would it take to get a 350 horsepower 350? Say, 94' truck model 350... Does it have to be bored out with larger pistons or just different cam, intake and headers? His show did it for less than $2000 which is 3K less than crate. If internals aren't worn do they still have to be replaced?

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

That would be Stacey David. That's not really a fair comparison, because if I recall that episode correctly, the motor he rebuilt already had a really good set of aftermarket heads on it. If you add the initial purchase price of those heads to the mix, the cost for that rebuild starts getting a lot closer to a comparable crate motor.

If you look at the cost to rebuild the typical 350 with the garbage stock heads, the price isn't really all that much better than the cost of a crate motor with the same garbage heads.

1gary

What I suggest is you rebuild your own engine in a choice 350 mainly because you control what parts are used.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

From what you've said you're still a little in the dark about what all is involved. I suggest you go read a book on rebuilding smallblock chevy's, and read a david vizard book on how to make horsepower on a budget. Not because it's accurate and up to date, but because it will get you thinking in the right direction. Nowadays there are better options available than what Vizard suggests generally. But you need to get a better idea of what matters and waht doesn't.

Cylinder bore - purely a repair, dont worry about power
94 truck 350 = bad, 96 truck 350 = good. You need to know why, go forth and learn.
Learn about sizing cams, learn about what headers are available...
Learn what internals wear, and what internals need to be replaced because of catastrophic failure, and then learn what internals you need to hit hte power levels you intend to aim for.

Go forth and learn. Read some books. Figure it out. It'd take a long time to hold your hand through it all.

Or you can just buy a crate engine, which is inherently a compromise, but better than making guesses. Just for the love of god dont get the Goodwrench 350.

hartsmike

Thanks for the info.. That's why I'm on the forums.. I didn't know 94's were bad 350's. What I'm looking for (like most people) is the cheapest way to get HP. Or, maybe in other words, if I get 96' 350 and plan on using the good old Iron Heads to keep costs down, what can I do to get 350 TRUE HP? Sayn' is the ZZ4 isn't truly 350 HP.

Thanks guys

hartsmike

And.... Just how much more would it costs to build a stroker and is it worth it?

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

The 94 motor is a perfectly good rebuild candidate if you're not going to reuse the heads. It's a 1-piece roller cam block, which is a great foundation for any motor that's going to use aftermarket heads. The only issue is that although it's got the provisions for the roller cam, you will need some of the components and will need to drill & tap the bosses in the lifter valley.

Tinbender59

Just my 2 cents; for the cost of a "good" rebuild, you could pick up any number of powerplants, all that will out perform a truck 350. LT1 - local Craigslist - $1200 motor, trans, wiring, and ECU all with 24k, 5.3's $500 or less, 6.0 $500 - $1000, unless you are dead set on a "hands on approach look into a new "heartbeat" I think you will enjoy it more, I know I do.

ChristianZ28

Anyone wanting to learn good old fashion hot rodding 101, read SMOKEY YUNICK'S POWER SECRATES! BTY Smokey always claimed Vizard was full of it.

Tinbender59

I like Smokey, followed his stuff religously in the day

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

It all depends. If you already need a crank (or regrind) and pistons, the basic stroker kit really aint that much more expensive for the gains. If you have a tight budget though and your crank is fine, well.......

BTW: 96-01 350s had roller cam and vortec heads. Probably the best place to start for a budget build.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

i would do an LT1 if you want a sbc type engine. nobdy wants them because they are convinced they are bad engines, so you can pick them up for cheap. new rings/bearings, and some .026" head gaskets and youll have around 11.0:1, aluminum heads, and a roller cam. add a cam and it will make somewhere around 350rwhp.

biggerjohnson96

I picked up a 90's truck motor, the valley was tapped and ready to go, I had to buy the correct cam retainer (the bolt spacing changes) and everything else swapped over from my 89 Camaro roller motor, the truck heads and camaro heads appear to be identical castings.

When it comes to buying your rebuild parts, you can buy better internals and/or a complete stroker kit (no guess work to matching rods, piston hieght, and piston style) and a better flowing set of heads and still be less than a crate motor. I have a 383 that I purchased also the components separate and built myself,
Heads = AFR 190s $1450
Crank = Scat Forged $600
Pistons = Wisco Forged $500
Rods = Eagle Forged $400
Used Truck 350 with heads=$50
Machine Work and Balancing $400
Small Nickel & Dime Parts = $400 (Gaskets, Oil Pump, Cam Plate, Bolts)
Total = $3800 for a very tough nearly bulletproof bottom end, combined with customer tune, Accel Super ram intake and matching cam, about 400horsepower, maybe more, but someone would say no way. Lingenfelter made 425 horsepower with similar combos using their reworked Corvette heads back when they still worked with Tuned port.

Now, if you buy a budget rebuild kit from summit, it will have almost everything you need and you can cut out balancing, it can be overkill for a lower RPM street motor. Use the stock heads and have a local machine shop work on the ports, you can easily get that total price down to the $1500 range with new everything. Just keep asking questions, there are lots of people that have done what your doing on the forum and while you will get 10 different answers and opinions to your questions, there will be lots of good info to take from it that fits your budget and your goals

hartsmike

Thanks for all the help guys!

Homer

iTrader: (1)

I wonder why? I have Vizard's small block book, and big block book. His build costs seem a bit low. I think he assumes the reader has a full shop and 30 years of porting experience. Neither of which I have any interest in obtaining.

I have Smokey's book too. Good read as well!

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Inflation over the years plays a part too.

91 outlaw

If you have a local company that rebuilds motors you could get with them. Either to have you work on it with advice or have them rebuild it and you select the parts. There is alot of tolerances you need to have spot on plus tips and tricks that only come from hands on experience. 383 is not much different than a regular rebuild it is an option to be cost efficent on a 94 rebuilt just to learn. and do the 383 your self and sell the 94. I learned alot hands on plus its more fun. Motors are a tricky topic you want to build your car but heads not torqued down sequentialy and you are going to move into the fix it stage instead of enjoyment. Just an example with heads. At the least with advice select your parts that way you know whats going in your car.

As for a crate motor I dont like it because I can go out and get the same motor you have and you wont learn much.

Also do some research on the 94 350 blocks with casting 010 are popular with hotrodders I believe it was a first run and more stout. Dont quote me on that just do some research

1gary

A 350 350hp isn't at the flywheel that hard to achieve.And any self respecting 383 can easily get to 400hp at the flywheel.Where things get tougher is when you guys want 350 at the rear wheels or 400 at the rear wheels.Figure it this way.What is your costs of dollars/single hp for 350 or 400@the f/w??. Ballpark loss to the rear wheels is about 25%. Take the rate of dollars/hp it took to get either hp rating @ the flywheel and X's 25% more to = at the rear wheels.

There are "lines" you across in builds where the raise in costs are substantial.

I have created a term that is a different approach in engine building.I call it "The open book build". You set your goals.You over a unlimited time acquire the parts not cheeping out on any of it.Then once it's completed,add up what it cost to the build.NO BUDGETS,NO TIME CONSTRAINTS!!!!.

I have over the yrs known guys who have yrs into their projects.Many of them shows that level of commitment.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

010 blocks are probably the most common 350 block out there. They're older 2 pc RMS blocks that dont have roller cam hardware or provisions in them. They are also prone to a few common QC issues.

Smokey Yunick and a few others believe in this high nickel superstition that maybe 010 blocks had, maybe they didn't. There's very little to corroborate that notion, and a lot to discourage it. They think the 010 blocks are "high nickel". Even if that's the case you're a lot better off in the long run with a newer roller cam block.

You can read about the 010 block myth here:

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showpo...1&postcount=12

Feel free to read that whole thread.

Quality control the past 20 years is vastly superior than it was in the 60s and 70s and those old blocks were prone to a lot of serious issues.

And you can make a 383 with the 94 engine just as easily as with an 010 or any other 4 inch bore block... not sure why you say he needs to sell it?

Podium

iTrader: (2)

If you wanna go budget just get a 96-01 vortex 350 like others have said and stick a cam in it. Easy 400 horse

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I had an 010 block once. Bought it as a rebuilt long block. Turns out it was cracked in the lifter valley, both sides. Put coolant into the oil. Small wonder it was so cheap. The seller skipped town not long after I bought it, before I realized it was cracked.

1gary

Well if we are off topic on 010 block and want to know for sure it's hardness or not.Here's the deal.If anyone on this forum has the ability to rockwell test a 010 block casting like on the bellhousing area and then compare the same test on a newer block,that will confirm the 010 blocks value or not. Hell you could have a 010 block that is junk because of a cracked bore and still test it's hardness or not.The other claim was 010 blocks machined better.I have doubts about that.I do think the older blocks have thicker walls and there again if someone on this forum could sonic check the walls on both a 010 and on a newer block that would confirm it or not.

91 outlaw

The 010 blocks has been something I have heard since I was younger no telling if its true or not. I suggested earlier to build a cost efficent setup to learn and build a stroker himself.

hartsmike

Factory heads? Is there a special intake to set it up carb?

Thanks for all the help guys!

91 outlaw

Weiand Speed Warrior Intake Manifolds 8502 from summit is nice it will go with a vortec. Summit also has some nice stage 3 manifolds something with a gap you can avoid running a spacer. As for carb if you dont have one the only thing i run is Holley pref a 650 dual feed. I am not into the vortecs just carb setups. I would venture to say you will need to have the heads reworked what specifically I have no clue. Someone on here can point you in the right direction when it comes to that. When you get to a cam call comp cams tell them what you have and what you want to do.

1gary

I couldn't be more serious with what I am about to say.With every dime you spend on a first gen,at the end that is what you have.A first gen.For what little more money it takes,you are far and away ahead of the game with a LSx.That friends is a no regrets build.

hartsmike

So, theoritically I could find a low milage used one (if there is such) work the heads n put a cam in? Would crank have to be turned or would factory build hold a "hitting" cam?

hartsmike

So, theoritically I could find a low milage used one (if there is such) work the heads n put a cam in? Would crank have to be turned or would factory build hold a "hitting" cam?