383 Power

iTrader: (2)

I just bought a 1984 Z28 on Ebay. The car just looks FANTASTIC for the price I paid ($2600). The current owner was very, Very understanding. I'm Currently in transit home from Afghanistan and there are a lot of briefings and crap that i'll have to sit through before I can pick it up. I'll post pictures on here as soon as I pick it up. The Car has T-Tops, and power windows unfortunately (Power Windows ALWAYS break and T-Tops ALWAYS leak), but I think I can live with that. The Interior is in really nice shape and the body is clean and straight. The Problem is, I want a toy. I really, Really want to toss a beefy 383 into it. Would it be sacrilege to rip out the original L69? The PO went to the trouble of having it rebuilt and it runs well. In fact, It's supposed to run VERY well. Additionally, I don't know if it has a posi or not. If it does, It's going to be the Borg Warner. Would it be wrong of me to put a 4th Gen Posi in there? Currently, I have a 1982 Sport Couple that needs A LOT of attention. My plan was to do all of this to THAT car, but I realized that I could have a much better car to start off with cheaper. When I saw this on Ebay, I knew it was my Chance. I hope I'm not breaking any rules by doing this, but Here's a link to the Auction that I'VE ALREADY WON on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=...WAX%3AIT#v4-40

gt4373

Keep It Original

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

While the L69 cars were the best of that year, there were SO MANY of them, that there's no particular reason to keep it "original" if that's not what you want.

Especially since even though the L69 itself was the best motor, it's still hopelessly outclassed by practically ANYTHING built today... even most minivans. To me, that's embarrassing. A supposedly "hot rod" car getting beat by virtually everything on the road.

Frankly I'd go ahead and do something to make it at least somewhat competitive.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Make what you want out of the car, while keeping something original and rare is neat, i've been there and done that, while an L69 car in itself isnt that rare, the leave it alone keep it stock route isnt much fun.

Though I can think of plenty better ideas than putting "a 383" in it, again, make it what you want.

383 Power

iTrader: (2)

I'm open to suggestions. What's on your mind? Right now i have a clean slate.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

If you intend to drive the car a lot when you do get to drive it, an LS1,2,3

If you are just planning a weekend toy and must have a carb, an LS1,2,3... with a carb intake.

This is one of those things you wont regret later.

383 Power

iTrader: (2)

It WILL have a carb. I got a Vacuum advance Road Demon 725 that I was saving for my 1982. That will probably go on there. I admit that I had been considering an newer block just for the roller valve train possibilities. Currently I have a freshly machined 350/4-bolt block with a 2-piece seal. The block was decked .008 and bored to .040 over. No Line bore. Maybe I could turn that block into a table. I could use a large piece of glass for the top so that you can see the block underneath. I could get a pair of caster legs for the block. First order of business will be SFCs. Especially since the thing has T-Tops.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Good idea about the table.

An LQ9 vs anything you put on top of that thing for heads is pretty well always going to win for HP/$$

Even better if you start with an L92.

kmcn47

i say leave it original if you want a fast car you should have bought a newer vette, if you love classic styling and a very nice mostly original sports car which these ones being what i believe to be the most desirable of the "muscle car" camaros of the era you should leave the engine trans alone, and try and set the body and decals back to stock and sit on this time capsule for another 15 years, i can personally vouch you will almost never have a mechanical problem with the l69, there very solid motors, with a nice exhaust they sound great, and that car as it sits would be a good dd or carshow cruiser depends on what you want really, after all its your car

jbenge

iTrader: (2)

I like the color combo, looks like a nice car. I would make it what you want it to be. Its not a super rare low mileage car, I wouldn't think twice about putting a 383 or LS engine in it. These cars are fun to drive even stock but they are a lot more fun to drive with more power.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

I went through the whole gambit of rebuilding my original L69, even put a nice 2040 Crane Compu-cam in it. The car would keep up with, or walk most 350's. Then I got walked myself by a kid in a '05 Cadillac STS...big car with a 32 valve V-8.

It was a good run, but I had my foot all the way down and I just couldn't take him...matter of fact he was creeping past and there was nothin I could do. No more than a week later, I got blasted by an old man in a old Ford pickup. The luster of my exotic L69 dulled real quick after that....

As far as keeping it original because "it'll sit well at car shows".....so will a original AMC Pacer. Ditch the engine if you want to even have a chance to keep up with today's performance.

kmcn47

i cant beleive the amount of people saying ditch it its no good for racing, how often does everyone actually race there cars?

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Is this a serious post ?

You really want to suggest keeping an anemic low HP engine, in what you refer to as a "muscle car" ?

And to answer the question, every chace you can get

We arent talking about a rare car here and keeping it original, its a plentiful car and he clearly wants it to move, why do you not think he should have more power ?

kmcn47

yeah it its, my camaro is not a race car by any stretch of the imagination, its quick enough and i enjoy driving it, i have to drive it everyday i have nothing else, i dont imagine the op does either because as he said hes just back from overseas and doesn't even have the car yet and already everyones suggesting he turn it into a serious racecar and swap this and that, how about we let him get home get the car and drive it for a little bit before HE can decide what he wants to do with it, thanks for serving by the way, seriously i know he asked for our opinions but its like asking someone what they should do today "oh just go bang a supermodel and then move into a mansion" yeah its the best case scenario but is it really just gonna happen? maybe if you say (z28 ***** you did) but in an ls1,2,3 link him a few ls build threads so he knows what hes in for? give him links to some cheap ls engines or even truck motors in his area? dont just go "oh yeah that motors a huge pile of **** have one of these, anyone who likes the l69 and leaves there car alone is a retard" and criticize my asking if the majority of members really even race there cars, at a track, where you actually need that much power, and not just drive them everyday and want the piece of mind that they have te most powerful car in the state (small ***** syndrome?) and can beat anyone but wont ever actually do any racing other then "on the streets" which isn't safe or recommended and makes you sound like a Vin Diesel wannabe right outta fast and furious 19 "racing in space" i just dont get it? as i said in my previous posts if he wanted a ***** out fast racecar he shouldn't have bought an 84 z28 if hes alright with having a quick nice looking mostly original classic car which will be valuable one day then i'm glad he got a good one but i'm not about to jump up and say "yeah cut that original rust free beautiful car up and make a nice drag car, go get a shell from a junkyard if thats all your gonna do, save the nice cars for people who will enjoy them

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Its always hilarious to hear someone try to claim small *****, because someone else can or has done something better than them.


1st he clearly had plans for a better faster engine, his reasoning for asking seemed to be he didnt want to go modifying something really rare, its clear the car isnt, and its clear he had plans for something with a considerable amount of power.

The engines I suggested would be in the same ballpark cost or less, nobody said go marry a supermodel and buy a mansion, I'd suggest you improve your reading skills, definetly before attempting to make any racecars.

HE decided he wanted to make it fast, HE already knows he wanted to do that, HE can easily choose what HE wants to put into it, HE can also have the advice of someone far more experienced than you on the subject of what HE should buy, and HE can decide whether to do so or not.

johnw999

I'm trying to make the same decision. I just bought a 1984 anniversary Trans-am last month. The engine needs to be replaced or rebuilt. I don't think the car will ever be worth tons of money, but who knows? I've been doing research, and a 305 can be increased to 300+ hp with new heads, cam, and intake manifold. The Trick Flow super 23 175 heads would work great. The heads are a $1000, though. By the time I get the engine block machined and purchase the replacement parts, I will end up spending more than a new GM Performance 350. Anyone have suggestions on how to keep the 305 rebuild cost down?

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Keep the cost down by just rebuilding it stock and leaving it alone.

If you are after making things fast get an engine thats worthwhile, or you'll spend a lot more than someone else who recognized reality.

If you are thinking it may someday be worth a bunch of money, put the engine away in a shed, get a harness made to replace the original and put the original harness, and full exhaust away with the engine, put something worthwhile in the car, then when you realize its not worth it going back you can just throw it all away.

wheelie250

It funny how it seems that the one member got so worked up about keeping the 305! If the car was super rare/ low miles great, keep it original. But while the car looks real clean, collector car lets get real. It sould like the owner would like to be able to hang with new stuff out there so chances are he will use that 350 he already has laying around. KMCN47 seems to love the L69s so much maybe he wants to buy that from ya It soulds like he gets his *** handed to him all the time thats why he never wants to run his car. PS thanks for serving, and if you decide to pull the motor please do a build thread, Im sure everyone would love to see it.

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

I agree to some extent. It seems like some people will get their hands on a really solid original 3rd gen and the first thing they want do do is start modifying it. I like fast cars and high horsepower as much as the next guy, but my street racing days are far behind me. I agree that when someone pays their hard earned money for a car, they can do what ever they want. But if they are asking for opinions, I just hate to see a really nice original car get hacked up. It seems to me, if you want to make a fast street racer, you get yourself a beater, or at least a car with a blown engine and rebuild it the way you want. If you got the time and the money, you can build a really fast street car. Hell, you could even drop something like this baby in it:




A twin turbo Chevy 572 big block, yummy!. On one dyno run, it pulled around 1500HP. I love the way those turbos whine!

kmcn47

i know and when someone asks why do it, people like z28 ***** get all pissy and know everything all of a sudden, all i'm saying is that hes got one project already the 82 sport coupe lord knows you don't see enough of those around anymore and its probably half finished and now hes going and probably gonna start on another camaro and probably never finish and it'll end up like one of these cars you see on cl all the time because someone wanted to make a nice car a fast car http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/3240877029.html

kmcn47

also if you wanna see an impressive motor http://best4thgencamaros.blogspot.co...4-zl-1_06.html

scroll down

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

He's coming back from a deployment, he's got the cash to build the car, yes when someone without the funds and ability start a build it can end up like that.

If you want to open your trap about what I do and dont know, i've owned a car far far more rare than the car he bought, and more rare than you'll likely ever drive.
Getting it cost me a car more modified than you'll likely ever get to, the rare car and all its value was gone in a crash one day, had it been the built car, i'd have needed another $1500 shell and been back in business, this L69 84 Z28 is no unicorn, and the guy clearly stated he wants to make it fast, he was just looking for info because he didnt want to go modifying something rare.

Apparently you arent very good at modifying cars if you are so worried about something getting hacked/cut up with making it fast, you should probably work on your skills, rather than calling someone elses build as a failed attempt before it even starts.

kmcn47

what was this magical car you speak of? and dont insult my ability you know nothing about it, and i know what i'm talking about not everyone hacks up cars when they make them fast, bluezee82 has a very nice car for one, add in spikeZ and countless other very nice cars on here, but if he wants a go fast car (and i'm asking him not you) why not just finish the 82? and for the record how many 84 z28s in that nice of a condition do you see daily because in my surrounding area i've seen 1 and its mine there are thirdgens mostly rs's and irocs which were produced in much greater numbers then the 84 z28s were but the early thirdgens are fewand far between in an unmolested state, now no offense to you from all this i've agreed with alot of your posts in other threads but i just still dont get why you'd not buy a car thats already faster 4th gens are bottom dollar cheap now i've seen ls1 camaros go for 4-5 grand local why not save himself the time and effort to come up short to one of those if he does say drop in that 383? and source a t56 and a 4th gen rear end ?

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Have you ever owned a 4th gen ?

The rare car, a 92 G92 5 spd Heritage pkg Z28

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Also, since you seem to be so determined for him to build the 82, have you owned one of those either ?

kmcn47

no, i know the 82 either has an iron duke a carb'd 2.8 or a crossfire form the factory and where not above engine swapping apparently so no problem there is there? and yeah actually 2 4th gens in the family my mothers 3.4 that i rebuilt the engine in, and my brothers mod'd 94 z28 nothing special about either one sure his cars faster then mine but its no more valuable, desirable, and its so much uglier

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

So, you havent owned either, yet you are suggesting he do either of them because they would be a better choice than the 84' Z28.


Interesting.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

This is just so you learn something today.

http://www.nastyz28.com/camaro/camaro92.html

All 350's for 92 required opt G92, how many opt G92 were left for 305 cars ?

kmcn47

what relevance does this have to our debate? and have you ever owned a 4th gen or an 82 ? do you have any more room to suggest them then i do? or to shun the idea? so you owned a rare camaro i dont care you apparently wrecked it, should of been more careful
where you "racing every chance you got" in it?

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Yes, both of them as well as the 84' Z28


Quite a few others, but I fear listing them in the presence of someone with such knowledge as yourself.

Oh, and no idiot, I didnt wreck it, I wasnt even in the car at the time.

But please continue on with your knowledge illustration.

kmcn47

so was it stolen? surely something so valuable would have been locked in a safe garage would it not? and what knowledge i'm the one whose asking questions here

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

What relevance does it have ? : Well the guy seems to be concerned with something rare, and asking the opinion of people as to whether he should remove it and mod or not, it shouldnt be hard to say that someone with experience with both sides of the rare vs fun and modified issue has a little more weight, or if nothing else insight.

No, it wasnt stolen, a friend was driving it, what actually happened isnt of much use here, what is of use is the insight of someone who's kept something and left it alone because it was rare, and had something built and modified, and which will really be the better idea.

To your last post, exactly, you need to keep asking questions, especially if you are trying to suggest a 4th gen, or an 82 camaro for a build basis over the 84, its quite evident that you dont know enough to make a worthwhile opinion.

kmcn47

well would you care to enlighten me as to why 4th gens and 82 camaros are so wildly different and impossible to build? rather then an 84 camaro? with what you've already described as an anemic engine?

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Different, the 82 has a lot of things that were different, seatbelts, door sills, a whole lot of little stuff that makes it a heck of a pita if you want something complete and nice, its one of those early first year things, gm didnt get it right the first time and changed a lot the following year.

4th gens have a much more cramped engine bay, a much higher curb weight, not to mention a giant dash that is your view, aside from that, isnt this THIRDGEN.org ?

ibmtech

iTrader: (1)

Let me think.... (This is a trick question)

Street or track?

Turn the key
prestage
Watch the tree
Go

383 Power

iTrader: (2)

The '82 Came with a Carbed 305

I value Everyone's opinion. One thing that I didn't want was to start a shouting match. It is true that I was concerned with pulling something apart that was uncommon. I knew it wasn't Rare. I actually Deployed with fixing the '82 in mind. I spent a bit more money on Guns and Gemstones than I anticipated while I was deployed, but I still have enough to do a really great job.

I bought this car because it was in better shape. To get the '82 to that shape would have cost me more than I paid for the '84. Make no mistake, I still love my '82, but I understand the amount of work that is involved in bringing it to just decent shape. On the '82:
1) The Wiring NEEDS to be replaced
2) The doors need to be replaced
3) At least one front fender needs to be replaced
4) The floors need to be replaced
5) The Interior needs to be redone (Dashpad included of course)
6) The engine is a VERY tired 305
7) The Transmission Leaks badly
8) The Gas guage doesn't read properly.

The good:
1) Has tubular control arms and panhard bar
2) Has rear from a 1994 camaro. 3.23 ratio posi with disc brakes
3) Has all new aftermarket guages
4) Has Z06 Corvette wheels

I haven't completely decided on my course of action though. Can I build an engine with a lot of torque in a car with T-Tops? Would subframe connectors be enough? I suppose I could use the 82 as a parts car. The 82 is currently a registered, running car. It's not completely dependable, but it is fine for around town.

I do ,however, Thank you all for your input.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Ttop issue wont be an issue after SFC's

Personally i'd run both alston and spohns if the budget allows for it, the two together basically allow you a tube frame underneath the car.

Knowing what you'd like to budget for the engine itself, and what the power goal is would help a lot in suggesting an engine to start with.

383 Power

iTrader: (2)

Budget is $4-5000 and 4-500HP
I already have a Road Demon 725 and a good Gen I 4-bolt block

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

While a gen1 will certainly get you there, going gen 3 will get you the power, cheaper and leave you with more on the plate later, heres my suggestion:

Searched in the area you've got listed as your location, im figuring thats where you'll be when you get back, theres a couple of LQ9's, for 1100-1200, they have 345 HP stock, by the time you get it in the car with the carb manifold and headers, you'll be pretty close if not over the 400 HP mark at the crank, and a simple cam swap will put you in the 500 territory.

Engine itself $1200
Front accessorys $400-600 (a/c dependent, possible to do a little cheaper
Intake mani with ignition box $750
Mounts $100

Use the truck exhaust manifolds or whichever stock LS manifolds are clearing and working well, if you want to use headers thats going to add a bit to the cost, but the stock manifolds will work on the lower end of that HP goal.

383 Power

iTrader: (2)

I see what you mean. Looks like it's completely realistic. I'm sure that I would have to change the motor mounts too though.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Forgive me if this has been said (I lost interest in reading the 305 banter about halfway through), but I would recommend staying with the stock rear. The 4th gen rear isn't much stronger, and the wider width limits wheel selection. Most l69 cars came with 373 posi rears.

mmadden55

You already have a machined 350 block. Build a 383 for it. If is injected now put an airgap 4 barrel intake with inject bungs and set it up with a 4 barrel TB as a MPI otherwise go Holley 750 carb, Get the biggest R roller cam you can live with. You probably have a 10 bolt rear, so toss in a torsen from a 98 and up v8 car. Just get the whole rear, and transplant everything over to yours, you will need to buy new 28 spline axles or have the ones in the 98 up diff shortened. It is up to you. You already have a sbc and you can build power in them cheap. Tommy Johnson motorsports is a good source for a 383 rotating assembly.

383 Power

iTrader: (2)

I was looking at the data for a 1984 Z28 on this site and it looks like most of the ones with the L69 and an auto came with a 3.42, however, it doesn't say weather it's a posi or not. At any rate, only one of you can be right. for a third gen, I understand that if it's a posi, it's not a 10 bolt, and if it's a 10 bolt, it's not a posi. I would really be excited if it were a posi though. The only thing that I don't like about that would be the cost of original parts for the 9-bolt and the size of the disc brakes. 4th gens have a little more going for them. I guess i'll know the answer when I pick it up. I suppose I could message the current owner and ask him to count the bolts.

mmadden55

The Borg Warner only came in GTAs and IROCs and yes you can have a posi in a 10 bolt and since it is a z28 it probably is. The Torsen from a 4 gen v8 car 98 up will fit and it is a MUCH better posi than whatever is in it now.(Most likely worn out Auburn)

383 Power

iTrader: (2)

Wow! That's why I love this forum! I'm constantly learning something new. Do you think it will have rear discs too? I'm liking this purchase more and more.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Even if it does, the early ones are terrible and you'll want to ditch them quick for the 89+ setup.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Agreed. The ls1 4th gen rear disk swap is cheap and easy. Those breaks are much better and the damned 3-brake actually works (once you make cables).