Blade09

Well after some cussing and a little ******* ingenuity we managed to get tool to hold together and knocked the bearings in relatively easy. I ended up pulling an all nighter last night helping a couple buddies get their cars together for the weekend so all I got done was washing the motor all out and cleaning all the holes and such. I started honing the lifter bores to clean them up but the drill battery died and I fell asleep before I could get back to it lol. I plan to finish that up tomorrow and began assembling/hopefully finish assembling the shortblock. Pics to come of that!

Blade09

Well, not that anyone cares but I am finally getting a break from college and have a spare minute to look at my car.

While I wasn't giving any updates I did accomplish some things, the first being that my fuel pump died on me so I had an excuse to put in a carter TPI pump. Also, my drivers side window randomly stopped going up all the way..lets just say the PO couldn't do anything right. I also picked up a pair of hooker headers brand new never installed for $100.

My Comp XFI 268 should be here tomorrow as well. Hoping to get the rotating assembly bolted together partially before family party tomorrow evening.

I'll take some pictures too so this thread isn't quite so darn boring.

Lots more to come, stay tuned!

Blade09

So I have a dumb question. My gen 1 block doesn't have a knock sensor hole in it obviously. Do I need to drill and tap for 1 or tune it out? If I need to drill, where and what size hole if anyone knows. Thanks!

watajob

iTrader: (29)

It should as the K/S goes in the pass. side block drain.

Blade09

So it has been a while, I'm sad to say I never made much progress. My grandma fell down the stairs in her house and got pretty banged up. Then 2 days later she fell down in her kitchen! Needless to say, the family was pretty busy taking care of Christmas events and her as well.

I haven't been home in 7 weeks. My dad said he was going to work on it some in my absence but I don't think he has. He did tell me that the main caps weren't matched with the mains, since they aren't numbered like newer caps (why the bearings didn't match up). He re-matched them for me so I can quickly check clearances when I am home for a week at the end of the month. After that I should be able to at least drop in the crank and hopefully start ringing and installing pistons.

The process has been agonizingly slow due to my busy schedule and hesitance to do anything without my dad's experience. He is as busy as I am but I am afraid to do anything without his ok because I can't afford to start this project over if I mess something up.

Bear with me guys, this project isn't dead!

Blade09

So I completely forgot to take any pictures but the crank is finally in the motor and the cam is slid in. It took a looonnngg time to find the degree wheel but I finally found it last week while I was home on Spring Break. Now we can degree the cam and get the pistons in. I've already ringed them and they are ready to go.

I'm trying to scrounge up the funds for a set or vortec heads I stumbled across at the moment. Being broke sucks!

as always, more to come..

Blade09

I hate how boring this thread has become! But I am back at my summer job(s) and things are starting back up again. After reading half a book about engine airflow theory, boy it was exciting lol, I can say that I feel like I understand some more about what I am trying to do. I also read a decent amount of TPI and MAF stuff in general.

I think my dad and I are going to grab a HSR off summit and see if we can't draw up and CNC some fuel rails instead of buying the $260 ones. He's got a buddy that owes him some time on his CNC so we're going to see if we can't make that happen in the next few weeks.

I'll probably go ahead and pick up a HV oil pump and pickup while I'm shopping too. It's slowly getting there.

Pics to come, when I have more interesting updates!

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Here is a cheap way to go for fuel rails.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/alte...tive-fuel.html

Blade09

I do actually have another question, if anyone bothers to read this thread anymore lol. Now that we are (most likely) going with the HSR, will the 24 lb injectors cut it or should I jump up to the 30s to have a little breathing room. I'm still gonna try to squeeze as much out of this motor as possible while still being perfectly streetable so I'm hoping 350 hp or so is still a reasonable goal.

Any info or advice is greatly appreciated.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

24#hr will be fine on a mild 350, contact southbay for some Bosch 3s

GitRot

I've got a stock 350 with HSR, running 30's from Southbay for future upgrades, and it runs great.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

24's are ok as long as you aren't running lean because of them. Running lean will kill your engine. So make sure you check your air/fuel ratio

Blade09

That's what I figured, I just don't want to run out of fuel.

If this is true I may go with the 30 lb injectors just in case I do something extreme at some point, but I don't know if there is a clear cut argument for either size at this point. Seems like ideally I would want something right between them.

Since I have to buy new injectors regardless I want to get exactly what I need, so maybe step up to the 30s?

Thanks Tuned Performance! Great link, but I have a couple questions. I'll be honest I skimmed the last 3 pages or so because there are several hundred posts. But is an adjustable FPR required for this application or just something people like to use. It seems like the AFPR is what makes the holley rails so expensive and any decent one I found in a quick search was pretty expensive as well.

Any recommendations on what to do about FPR? My apologies if this is explained in the later pages of the posted link.


Thanks for all the help guys!

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

I guess there is two ways to look at a adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Im not a fan of increasing fuel pressure to much. Increasing fuel pressure puts strain on your fuel pump and over works the injectors. But if you data log and have a lean condition it can be corrected bye increasing the fuel pressure slightly. The other way is dataloging and reprograming but this can be a real tedious process it depends on what all that has been done to the engine. I helped a guy not to long ago dial in his tune with a 2032 crane cam , 083 heads 5.7l 9.5:1 comp,no adjustable fuel pressure regulator and bosh 3 22#hr injectors. It didnt take much to help correct the idle and the rest of the tune was pretty spot on.

Take a look at mega squirts injector and fuel supply section There is a neat flow calculator pressure vs injector flow.

http://www.megasquirt.info/

Blade09

So if I understood it right, I hope, then attempting to make 350 hp will take 25.7 lb/hr injector flow rate based on the equation provided by MS. Southbay lists 27 lb/hr injectors as Bosch III's so I assume they are stock size and would work.

So a non-adjustable regulator (assuming stock pressure of 43 psi) would be slightly more fuel than is needed (27 - 25.7 = 1.3 lb/hr overkill). So I should be fine with a non-adjustable then? I don't mind buying what is necessary but paying double for an adjustment I don't need seems like a waste.

Forgive me if I am way off. I am new to the world of flow rates.

Blade09

Got all of the pistons in. Unfortunately, you shouldn't torque things while drinking! I managed to over torque the rod bolts so I may have to grab another set. Checking with my machinist to see if it was bad enough to stretch the bolts...

In other news, I came across a deal on a set of World Products Sportsman II heads. I know they are cast iron and not great but they should be worlds better than bowl blended 993's right?

My only concern is the 64cc chamber being too small for the .030 over flat tops I have. Can anyone offer some insight? This motor can't go beyond premium fuel.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Yes, most anything aftermarket is better than 993's.

Assuming 4cc valve reliefs in your flat tops, .040" quench height (crown-to-deck depth plus head gasket compressed thickness), you'll have about 10.5:1 static CR. Premium should handle that fine.

Blade09

I honestly couldn't tell you what the relief volume is, but 4cc sounds about right. As usual five7, you are a life-saver.

My only other question is, these heads have square ports. I have oval headers... I was looking and square port headers don't exist that I can find? Can I use my hookers?

EDIT: It appears that I can just use most any header as long as it doesn't shroud the exhaust port.. Anyone with hard evidence one way or the other please chime in

Blade09

Well I ended up snagging a set of 062 vortec heads for $100 a few days ago. I had them fluxed on Friday and no cracks! So now they are headed out for a valve job and the hopefully last round of parts will be ordered today.

Pics and details to come!

Blade09

Well, the heads are going to the machine shop this week. In the mean time, I got some goodies from summit yesterday Here's one of them.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

You might have better luck with the plenum turned around

Blade09

I knew that was coming lol, as soon as I posted the picture I saw it was backward. I got the packages as I was walking out the door to go to work so I opened them real quick lol.

I have a startup tune for a maf tpi but I'm concerned with how much the intake will change the entire tune. Will I still be able to start it up off a slightly modified tpi tune? Still trying to read up on tuning stuff.
Thanks folks.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

TGO rules state no prom begging, stock programing will get it running. There is no one tune fit all. Depending on the compression ratio , camshaft, heads, intake and gearing You need to have someone live dyno tune or DIY.

Blade09

Sorry I guess I wrote that incorrectly. I meant it as more of a question of did you guys think it would run on a stock tune enough to tune it further. But that's ok, I'll look into it further myself. I can always shoot RBob a pm too, he's been incredibly helpful through all of this.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Yes but depending on the cam lift/duration may pose running issues until you reprogram.

Blade09

Good, I was just praying it would start for me so I could start logging! Thanks once again for saving my butt TunedPerformance! You must know your stuff

Blade09

The only update I have at the moment is that the heads are at the machine shop. I should be able to pick them up Friday. Had to buy new springs/locks/retainers and valve seals to match the .520 lift comp cam. Had to get the valve guides cut down to keep the spring retainers from smashing them.

Hopefully I am nearing the end of the buying parts phase because I am running low on funds lol.

Blade09

Not many pictures, I kinda forgot but I have a decent update. Got all the parts I was reusing powdercoated finally. Here's a couple pictures of the oil pan being done. I got the front cover coated as well along with every visible bolt head! The long block is together and now I just have to figure out what length pushrods I need and get them ordered. I'll be starting to pull the old motor out when I get back home for Christmas in a few weeks. It's starting to get exciting.

Pics of oil pan during coating:


Came out a little light in some spots so heated it back up for a touch up:

Blade09

Oh and while I am here, what do any of you recommend for throttle cables. Will stock ones work? If so where should I look for them at? I don't have any off the tpi setup I bought.

Blade09

A bit of an update finally! I've been busy with school for so long it was nice to get a week to spend on nothing but this poor car. It has been in the garage the entire winter, thankfully, and it rolled out today for the first time to wash out the engine bay.

I'm in the process of removing the TBI harness and sorting out the TPI harness. I am running into identification issues though, I have scoured the internet but can't find a clear diagram of a TPI harness. Can somone point me toward one? Also, my TBI harness seems to have the headlights etc integrated but I don't see any of those connectors on the TPI harness... Will I be cutting and splicing them to the new harness?

It's embarrassing that I am having this much trouble but I really can't find any good way of identifying all of the plugs on my harness...

Any help is much appreciated guys! Thanks!

Pics:

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Chevythunder.com, austinthirdgen, gearheadefi just to name a few places to find schematics on tpi.

Blade09

I was looking at chevythunder, thanks for recommending ATGO. I will look there as well. My biggest problem is I am a bit color blind and these wires are dirty haha. So ID'ing sensor plugs by wire color is a nightmare. I've identified 8-10 so far but it seems like I am no where near finished.

I am not only trying to identify what is what but also what I can eliminate. I am trying to rebuild this car emissions free so I have a feeling a decent amount of this stuff can just be pulled back. As I identify more I may be posting pictures of specific plugs and wires for better assistance.

Thanks Tuned Performance! I was actually just on the We love TP thread. Anymore help from you and I'll have to post over there too! You have been a lifesaver!

Blade09

Can anyone identify either of the two pictured items? The yellow one came with the TPI computer but I can't identify/have nothing that plugs into it. Also, the gray plug next to it. I know it is part of the underdash connections but I can't find what it is or where it plugs into. Thanks!

Blade09

So I have been away at school so not much has been done, I got the car taped off and I'm hoping my dad will find time to spray the bay a nice satin black before I get home again. I have been trying to come up with a list of remaining parts I need though.

As far as the photo in my post above. I did realize that it is the speedo buffer box, although I still don't know what the little gray fella goes to. My new question is what do I need to do with the buffer to go from a 91 tbi car to an 87 tpi harness? It seems like everything I read says something different. I need my own personal TunedPerformance and Pocket! I would never finish this thing if it weren't for a handful of you professionals!

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

The optical signal goes to the 165 ecm, as pictured

Blade09

Thank you sir!

I have another stupid question, could anyone save me a major headache and list off the non-emissions related sensors I need for a tpi? The harness and stuff I have came without any sensors so I am really not sure what all I need, and I assume there may be something I can exclude since I am running no egr/emissions.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Eight injector plugs connecters
Tps, cts, mat pigtail, iac and icm four wire connecter

Blade09

I got most of the acronyms, but what is a cts? And is an O2 sensor still used for anything without emissions? I didn't know if it played into fueling at all..

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

CTS = Coolant Temp. Sensor?

fahnestockjosh

I also went from the 305 tbi to the 350 tpi, but I changed the brain. now I am having issue getting the key to work due to the chip! can any one point me in the right direction?

fahnestockjosh

I had a 305 tbi and swapped it for a 350 tpi, also changed the brain. now im
having problems with the key due to the chip! Any ideas?

killer777

Yeah, the computer uses the Mass airflow sensor or the map sensor depending on your engine to make large calculations on fuel and timing, and then it fine tunes those calculations with the o2 sensor. It more or less tells your ECM how rich/lean you are running. You will need it.

Blade09

That's what I figured. I'll weld a bung in later. Should I put it in the header (I'm using hooker shorties) or in the y-pipe? I know they can be temperature sensitive.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Put the O2 sensor in the header collector.

Blade09

Well I don't have pictures with me, I'll see if I can get a few uploaded later on, but I did get a significant amount done. I got the engine bay painted a nice gloss black and got the motor set in. I got the majority of the harness laid out and the wires run back under the dash. Now I'm just trying to keep going with the accessories and wiring.

Question, If I have an '87 harness with the CSI and I am not using it, do I not need the temp sensor with the injector style connector? I'm assuming that sensor is only used for the cold start inj.

If that is the case then I have a MAF, a CTS in the front of the intake base, knock sensor in the block, IAC and TPS in the throttle body, and O2 sensor in the exhaust somewhere. Other than connecting the ignition control module on the distributor are those the necessary connections for this? Just in case anyone missed it, all emissions has been removed from this car.

I am assuming the various holes in the back of the stealth ram plenum are for vacuum lines? I can't think of anything else that would go back there.

Thanks guys! I feel like I can finally see a faint light at the end of the tunnel.

Blade09

Thanks!

Blade09

Found a few pics on my phone:

Blade09

So its been a little while, and I've been slowly taking care of odds and ends. The harness is still killing me. I have 3 major questions:

1) The TBI harness had the alternator wiring incorporated but the TPI doesn't appear to... That's not a question but I am lost, any info would be a huge help. EDIT: I have no starter wiring either?

2) The TPI Harness if from an 87 firebird. Does it have a different fan motor connector than my 91 RS? I can't find that anywhere either.

3) While this may have an equally obvious answer, bear with me... Will I be needing to repin the bulkhead and firewall connectors since the engine harness is an 87 TPI but the under dash is 91 TBI?

Thanks in advance!

Blade09

So after a lot more research I realized that the tpi harness doesn't have much of the body harness that the tbi did. Unfortunately I don't trust my abilities or have the time to try and build the harness myself. I saw tpiparts.net offers a conversion that is supposedly a plug and play for my situation. Has anyone used this company that can share insight or have anyone else they recommend for the service? I just need a trustworthy harness that will get this car up and running.

TunedPerformance, I'd lime to hear your input on the matter. Feel free to reply or pm me with any info anyone wants to share.

Thanks guys.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

You might consider going to the 1227730 ecm and re work the tbi harness. c100 comes apart you will need to compare c100 , c207 , c221 for pin differences using the 87 harness.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...d-density.html
http://www.austinthirdgen.org/?pid=19