diablizzard

iTrader: (8)

take that prius

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

hahahaha

Fallen2603

91camarosRS,
The Subaru EJ25 motor would be great in a 3rd-Gen. All the weight would be low and a lot closer to the center-or-gravity. Kind of like that new Subaru FT-86/Scion FR-S. Still get plenty of torque, too. You should do that.

diablizzard,
Yep, that's why not 4G63 for me.

White'89,
I sure like to think that I've done my homework. Seems I've spent ten times more time researching this swap than I've actually spent behind a wrench.

travis401,
Oooh, a 6-speed could be very nice. That might happen someday. If I decide the addition of 100lbs of transmission is worth it.

Pillsbry10,
I'll cut off my own dick before I get a Prius.

diablizzard

iTrader: (8)

would the suburu engine even fit? It's very wide

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

probably NOT 100 miles per gallon... but it would be WAY cool!!

And it would be really happy with a set of 3.90's or 4.11's behind it!

Fallen2603

diablizzard,

Is a Subaru boxer-4 wider than a big-block Chevy? I doubt it. If a BBC will fit in a 3rd-Gen, I don't see why a Subaru boxer-4 won't fit.

KrisW,

And, as for differential ratio's, I figured these out for the TKO-500:


Tremec TKO-500
1st - 3.27:1
2nd - 1.98:1
3rd - 1.34:1
4th - 1.00:1
5th - 0.68:1


Aisin AR-5 (Pontiac Solstice GXP, curb-weight: 3,091lbs.)
1st - 3.75:1
2nd - 2.26:1
3rd - 1.51:1
4th - 1.00:1
5th - 0.73:1
Differential-Ratio: 3.91


Pontiac Solstice GXP final-drive-ratio’s
1st - 3.75 X 3.91 = 14.6625
2nd - 2.26 X 3.91 = 8.8366
3rd - 1.51 X 3.91 = 5.9041
4th - 1.00 X 3.91 = 3.9100
5th - 0.73 X 3.91 = 2.8543


Pontiac Solstice final-drive-ratio’s divided by Tremec TKO-500 gear-ratio’s to achieve a differential-ratio
1st – 14.6625 / 3.27 = 4.4839
2nd - 8.8366 / 1.98 = 4.4629
3rd - 5.9041 / 1.34 = 4.4060
4th - 3.9100 / 1.00 = 3.9100
5th - 2.8543 / 0.68 = 4.1975

Desired differential-ratio for similar performance/mileage of a Pontiac Solstice: 3.91–4.48:1


I'm thinking of a set of 4.11's for the rear-end of my EcoteCamaro, for now. Maybe 4.56's...

diablizzard

iTrader: (8)

but all of the width is at the level of the crank shaft and not at the top. that was my train of thought. I like the sound of the boxers, I haven't heard of any horror stories about them either.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

4.10 ratio is actually pretty cheap to get a hold of. You can get them used from the rear of a 4cyl S-10 and they go right into your rear axle housing.

That's if you're thinking budget...

Go, go, go!!

Fallen2603

KrisW,

LOL! I wouldn't describe this build as a "bang-for-your-buck" build. I've got a 4th-Gen rear-end that'll I be building up for, and I'll probably end up getting a brand new set of 4.11's or 4.56's.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

For the amount of power you plan on putting out, there's no reason that a good used ring and pinion wouldn't serve you well.

I do everything on a budget, so old habits die hard hahahahahaha.

Fallen2603

diablizzard,

Sorry, I missed your post last time. I know that the Subaru boxer-4 is a wide, flat engine, so I don't know for certain it will fit into a 3rd-Gen. But, I think it would. It'd be an awesome swap for someone, who doesn't mind throwing a Japanese motor into an American car, to try. I'd personally love to see it. The only issue I've ever heard with Subaru boxer-4's is that they like to burn oil. Otherwise, nothing.

KrisW,

I don't doubt that a used set of 4.10's would work with my set-up. I just don't like getting things used, most of the time. If an item, brand new, is over $500, I'll try to find a used, cheaper item. Otherwise, I don't mind buying new. Just the way I am. LOL!

54inches

MY 1992 B4C 1LE L98 WCT5 only weighed about 3300 when I got it; very low option and I got it down to very close to 3000 lbs. Don't worry about the HAters, E-thugs and the others. I actually weighed my car and these are REAL numbers. It was not a stripper either, just removed a few heat shields and the jute backing under the rear of the carpet in the hatch. It also had AC/Heat.......No pd, pdls....

Exactly; wish you were closer and I could build them for you!

Amen!

Look at all that self promotion; you really believe in yourself don't you. Douchebag! jk brother!



Understatement of the year!

I like any non-traditional same company swaps; Duramax in a CTSV is my next one...........

Keep up the good work and let's see some FN progress.

Oh and inform those Mods if the haters come back; they should be able to clean up this thread!

Fallen2603

54inches,

Thanks for all the support, man! It is greatly appreciated.

Exactly! I've seen and heard about plenty of these cars that crowd the 3,000lb mark with normal weight-reduction tricks. Not anything as intrusive as I'm planning on for my build. And nowhere close to acid-dipping or such craziness.

LOL! I wish you were closer, too. I wish I knew how to weld up my own mounts. Would make this process a lot easier.

Eh, I'm not worried about the haters. The one I had the most problems with was some guy who couldn't even build a 250WHP 240SX, and said I'd have the same lack of success. Anyone who knows a miniscule amount about imports SHOULD know how easy it is to make 250WHP in a 240SX. Don't matter if it's an SR20DETT, KA24DE, or even the single-cammed KA24 can make a good, streetable 250WHP. Whatever...

I might get in touch with one of the mod's when I've finished the swap to make a thread that he can lock out to all the haters. Maybe...

LOL! And as for progress, I'm still taking donations. Hello! Hear that everyone?! Donations are still welcome!

Hope to get the transmission soon.

Thanks again, man. And good tidings to ya!

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

It's never cheap to go "green". I think that's why they call it going green because that's exactly what it costs!

LOL - the "aluminum duke" .. Priceless!

Good luck on your build.

Fallen2603

1bad91Z,

Well, while this build will most likely have great mileage, it's not the driving reason behind the build. LOL! Yes, it will cost green...

The "Aluminum Duke" seems like a great title for it, if a little anachronistic.

Thanks, man! Cheers!

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

your welcome again

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

i'm thinking about doing it in my S10 and i was looking around at transmissions. The T56 might be able to bolt up, as well as the 4L60e. the 4l60e has a .69xx 4th gear.

though i know to get the T-5s or the NV3500s to bolt up to an ecotec you need an adapter (which they sell)

Fallen2603

Pillsbry10,

Thanks again, man. I'm just glad that I don't have to pay you a dollar for every time someone notices and laughs at it.

Convoy25,

There's a guy who did an Ecotec swap into an S-10. Here's his thread:
http://www.ecotecforum.com/forums/sh...-s10&highlight=

If you want to go T56, 4L60E, 700R4, etc., these are probably your best bet:
http://store.fab-tek.com/custom-fabr...llhousing.html
http://store.fab-tek.com/ecotec-to-c...t-adapter.html

If you want to go T5 or TKO-500:
http://quad4rods.com/index.php?page=...&Itemid=100041

If you want to go 200-4R:
http://quad4rods.com/index.php?page=...&Itemid=100041

Not exactly sure what a NV3500 is...

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Watch out for this one; the ones I worked on were a one piece bellhousing and trans housing, used in Astro Vans and 1500 C/K trucks with the 4.3 V6 engine.

It wasn't that strong; a little better than the T5 but the 4.3 engines would wear them out easily. Not cheap enough to rebuild often and they don't rotate to the necessary 17 degree angle for best fitment in our cars because of the one piece housing.

diablizzard

iTrader: (8)

the nv3500 is an odd ball, they started to put them into the s10s in 96 too. I found out the hard way when I went to remove it from my truck. I don't think they're strong enought to beat on. when I got the truck it seemed like the blocker ring was broken to go into 2nd. I sent it out to get it rebuild, so I don't know if that was the fault.

Fallen2603

Not seeing much of a benefit by using the NV3500 in an S-10...

diablizzard

iTrader: (8)

they probably thought it would hold out better than the t5. It does have a different set of gear ratios for more top end. It would be pointless to have the fullsize ratios in the s10, you end up shifting by 15mph. I just so happen to have one of those in my full size too. It doesn't grind either after 200k, but there is a lot of play in it.

Fallen2603

Yeah, still no up-side to me.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

You would be best off with a 6 speed from a 4th gen or a Cadillac CTS, GTO, or similar.

I'll be shooting for that when I upgrade.

diablizzard

iTrader: (8)

yeah there really is no point to put the nv3500 in. there isn't any real performance aftermarket either. only upgrade that anybody does is swap to the nv4500, which is iron case.

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

excellent thanks!

Some guy on the S10 forum did an ecotec swap and bought a bellhousing adapter for his T5, the NV3500 is the 5 speed that they used in the 2nd gen S10s (96+)

i wouldn't say its a benefit, but for me it would be one less thing i had to do (if i wanted to do a barebones-get-it-in-and-running-asap-swap)

i would definitely go for the T56. the .5 6th gear is a lot more appetizing than the ~.73 5th gear.

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

double post

diablizzard

iTrader: (8)

That's the route I'm going to take once I start on my S10. after it's all set in with electrical straight, a t56 will be moving in.

Fallen2603

I'll be good with a 5-speed. The T56 isn't worth the weight it'll add to my set-up, or at least that's my opinion right now. Might change it up later, but for now I'm sticking with a 5-speed.

diablizzard

iTrader: (8)

find a used wc t5 for now, and when you're ready upgrade to the tremec.

Fallen2603

diablizzard,

I would use the World-Class T5 for now, but the T5 and the TKO-500 mount differently. The T5 mounts at an angle while the TKO-500 mounts "straight-up". It wouldn't work in the short-term.

diablizzard

iTrader: (8)

I was under the impression that they had the same bolt pattern to the bellhousing.

this company sells it with the stuff to match.
http://www.5speedtransmissions.com/3rd_gen_camaro.html

Awesome-X

Hey Fallen thanks for that Ecotec S-10 thread, that was a good read and I'm actually considering doing that now...

Fallen2603

diablizzard,

Yes, a V8 T5 out of a 3rd-Gen will bolt up to the Ecotec to T5 bellhousing I have. The issue lies within the mounting point on the tail-housing of the T5 of a 3rd-Gen T5. The World-Class T5 is mounted at an in angle, shifter tilted about 17* towards the driver's side. The bellhousing I have wants to mount the transmission with the shifter sticking "straight-up". This is the issue that forces either permanent modification toward a T5 or towards the purchase of a TKO-500.

Awesome-X,

Glad I could be of assistance.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Is there a reason that you DON'T want to use a third gen bell housing? I have gotten them pretty cheap out of our classifieds here in the past...

I think you're better off using a stock T5 in the beginning to get it going so that you can use the stock mounts and driveshaft to keep the budget down until the engine is really running good and you know that its gonna stay there hahahahhahahah.

Fallen2603

KrisW,

I'm not using a stock 3rd-Gen bellhousing because it won't bolt up to an Ecotec without an adapter. I don't have the Ecotec to SBC bellhousing adapter. I have the specific Ecotec to T5 bellhousing adapter. Besides, I think that Ecotec to SBC bellhousing adapter requires the use of a flywheel adapter, and I don't like the idea of adding mass there.

The Ecotec to T5 adapter bellhousing mounts the transmission straight up, while the 3rd-Gen F-body has the T5 transmission mounted angled towards the driver. I'm not even sure the Ecotec to SBC adapter-plate will let the transmission mount at an angle.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

As far as the bellhousing adapter, you usually DO need a spacer behind the flywheel in order to maintain the same distance of the input shaft to the flywheel. Its not normally heavy at all, just a small flange spacer that is the same thickness as the adapter. Longer flywheel bolts are needed.

You have an adapted bellhousing. This is designed for "straight up" GM installations. You MAY be able to have the machine shop put in your 17 degree mounting pattern. You should take it in and check and see. Your bellhousing may also support the straight up LT1 T56.

Its worth a look...

The reason I like the bellhousing adapter plate better, is that you can then use the small block Chevy bellhousing that is drilled on its face to tilt the transmission. So, you can just bolt up the 3rd gen only bellhousing and, VOILA!, you are in the 17 degree place you wanted.

Fallen2603

KrisW,

As far as I know, the Ecotec-to-T5 adaptive bellhousing does NOT need a spacer between the crank and the flywheel. If not, then I will investigate other options.

Could the adaptive bellhousing I have support the 17* tilt? Probably, with an adapter plate and using a transmission with a longer input-shaft. However, I don't want, nor do I like the 17* tilt of the manual-transmissions in a 3rd-Gen.

Again, the adaptive bellhousing could support a T56, but that's not what I'm interested in doing.

If I had known about the adapter plate six months ago, I might not have spent the $500 for the adaptive bellhousing from Quads 4 Rods. If someone else were doing this swap, I'd recommend that, instead of what I did.

The 17* mounting thing has not been an issue since I found out that a GM TKO-500 is virtually identical to a GM V8 T5, except for it's FLAT mounting point, and I exchanged my Spohn T5 crossmember for a TKO crossmember.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

So then what other issues do you expect to have? The trans was tilted on purpose, presumably for clearance issues with the transmission tunnel.

If you run the transmission "straight up" then what about the shifter? Is it gonna come out in the wrong spot ?

Fallen2603

KrisW,

LOL! Dude, I've already answered all these issues previously in this thread I think. LOL! You're the one that started this little back-and-forth, and you're asking me what the worry is all about?! You should be telling me!

I've already checked with Forte's Parts Connection, and the shifter would not need to be offset. My car was originally an automatic, though, so I'll have to do some cutting.

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

I believe it was put at an angle for "driver comfort". The only clearence issue I can see could be the console. I know the stock shifter gets awfully close to it in a few spots. Don't know if making it straight up will do much though. Before cutting for clearance if needed a short throw may solve any clearance issues.

Since your cutting the tunnel because of automatic there should be no problem there if you measure correct... And I'm sure you will

Fallen2603

Pillsbry10,

From what I've been told, the TKO-500 shifter will clear the stock console. However, I am planning on a short-throw shifter.

Oh, I'm OCD/****-retentive when it comes to that kind of ****. LOL!

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

i could be wrong but cant you mount it on the tko in both straight up and down or at 17*

Fallen2603

Pillsbry10,

Yes, Forte's also has an adapter-plate to mount a TKO at an angle so the stock crossmember can be reused. This requires a TKO with a longer input-shaft and the adapter-plate, but it does work from what I understand.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Sorry about that, man. I'm overseas right now, so not only does my internet SUCK, but I am reading lots of threads looking for ideas and I'm just trying to figure out what the reasons are for what people are doing.

I seem to have run myself over in this post, and I took you with me! I'd apologize, but you seem to be taking it in stride.

Fallen2603

KrisW,

No worries man! I remember the internet in Iraq, if you could call it that. LOL! There are much more important things to worry about, especially where you're at.

What branch you with, man? Unit?

Keep your head down. Cheers!

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

When I was active duty, I was in the Seabees.

Now, as a civilian, I'm a MaxxPro MRAP FSR. I am currently embedded with an Army unit to help keep their MRAP trucks rolling, which keeps them safe outside the wire.

Head down, aye-aye!

Fallen2603

Uh-oh...an ex-swabbie. LOL!

I was just starting to see the MRAP's over there when we were re-deploying to the states. Never got to mess with them much...

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

TECHNICALLY, a Seabee would NOT be a swabbie hahahahahaahha! Dirt sailor is what the fleet called us hahahah!

But its hard to throw off all the Navy-ness when they made us dress up like the Cracker Jack sailor twice a year for inspection. We can't help it hahahahahhaha!

Anyway, I am not complaining. What I'm doing is living vicariously through your project (and many others) because I'm dying to do my own.

Get the engine in already!

Seriously, I wish you the best of luck and I'm subscribed to your post to see how it turns out. I have the old Quad 4 on my list of engines "to do" and yours will be close to what I am expecting.

Fallen2603

LOL! My bad, I didn't know that Seabee's weren't officially swabbies.

I know how you're feeling, man. In time...

LOL! Yeah, I want to get this project rolling, too. In time...

The Quad-4 would make a nice swap.