sjgrimsley

Ok planning to do the swap this summer.
It is going to be a TIGHT budget job so I'm only spending money on heads and exhaust. It's a 400 from a '76 Caprice. It has an Edelbrock Torker intake and a GM 350/350 cam already. It currently resides in our old '84 pickup; with stock exhaust and q-jet it runs really strong. I am going to put the ccc q-jet and electronic ignition from the 305 on. I am looking at Edelbrock 70cc performer rpm aluminum heads and Patriot 64cc aluminum heads. Both have 202/160 valves. Edel has 185cc intake, Patriot has 195cc intake. My question is: Which set of heads would be best for this setup and what kind of numbers might I expect?

Thanks in advance for the help!

Skip to post #49 for the change of direction on the build. Hybrid LS1-SBC 406.

Apeiron

What pistons are in the 400?

sjgrimsley

The pistons are whatever came in it from the factory. So whatever a 4bbl '76 Caprice came with.

HF_monster

if its all stock bottom end I wouldnt take it much past 5k RPM. the patriot heads would work best IMO.

sjgrimsley

Thank you sir. Thats all I needed to know. It wont see past 5k at all anyway since the trans likes to shift at 4500.

WS6LOVE

I've got the same project going on. LG4 to 400 swap. Do those Patriot and Edelbrock heads have steam holes in them? You'll want to have them drilled if not. If you're running street that is. I'm currently having that done on my new GMPP Vortec heads.

engineer1matt

Have fun with it its well worth it.

WS6LOVE

Holy crap dude. Seriously? A blown 427? And I thought mine was ridiculous...lol

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Do you plan on keeping the Torker intake?

sjgrimsley

I am undecided on the intake. It's an old one and I mean old. Like 40 years old haha. I may end up getting an RPM Air Gap intake instead. And Patriot says they will add the steam holes no charge

WS6LOVE

The air gap is what the guys use to get 500-600 horsepower out of the 400. I have one too. The vortec heads are cheaper than the edelbrocks and patriots and should give you at least 400hp with that intake from what the other guys I talk to with this engine say. If you want to try for the vortecs, I got mine from craigslist brand new for $400.

sjgrimsley

I thought about going the Vortec route but if I wanted to get more than 400 or so hp out of it later on I would have some porting to do whereas with the patriots the engine would pretty much be future-proof. I wouldn't have to port them any for the extra flow because they already have great flow numbers, CNC ported and polished out of the box and assembled for under $900 a pair.

WS6LOVE

$900 a pair is about the same price as my vortecs if you buy them from the same place. So yea I'd go patriots I only got my new ones so cheap cause a guy bought them new from summit and had them machined, then had them on the car long enough to realize the bottom end was destroyed. So I think I got a good cheap set. I'm on a budget so $900 on heads isn't in my picture. Those big valves will be great for that engine tho. Great choice.

skirkland1980

iTrader: (2)

have you read my thread on patriot heads? the torker intake wont work. you'll need the edelbrock 7116. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...iot-heads.html

sjgrimsley

The 7116 manifold is a performer rpm so if I get the rpm air gap will it bolt up the same with no worries?

engineer1matt

Looks cool in the car but tuning it has become a chore the motor loves high RPM's so city driving is becoming an issue but I will find the right tune and it should be a blast.

skirkland1980

iTrader: (2)

yes if its the vortec air gap.

sjgrimsley

Ok my only question on the vortec intake is will my q-jet fit with no problems?I'm sure there would be no problem with it but my luck I would get it and it wouldn't bolt up lol

skirkland1980

iTrader: (2)

the qjet wont bolt to the manifold without an adapter plate, then hood clearance becomes an issue. a dual line holley is the best carb for hood clearance because you can use a low profile air cleaner.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I'd highly recommend using a Performer RPM vs. that single plane Torker.

(As to "old", the '57 had a Torker intake on it's 3rd engine.)

sjgrimsley

Ok I did some looking around at intakes and edelbrock's 2116 performer vortec manifold fits spread-bore carbs. Port exits are 2.05" tall. Will this be a good choice to fit the patriot heads?

skirkland1980

iTrader: (2)

it should work. make sure you use .120" thick intake gaskets as i mentioned in my patriot head thread or an oem style gasket. do you already have the heads?

sjgrimsley

No I do not have the heads yet. And I will be sure to get either gm gaskets or equivelent.

skirkland1980

iTrader: (2)

im not so sure you'll like the heads. i had to put a lot more money and time into making them work. i wish i had gotten another set of Darts instead.

sjgrimsley

I think I'm going to stick with the patriots for the price. They will be miles ahead of the stock heads anyway as far as performance goes. They're flow numbers are very good too.

WS6LOVE

I'm sure you will. Make sure you make some videos for us all to see

sjgrimsley

Ok I talked to a guy at Patriot and he suggested their 2181 heads for a mild 400. He also said they use a regular RPM Air Gap manifold with no problems so this will be the route I go. Thank you all for your help!

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

sounds good. glad you finally got a set up. my set up changes daily

sjgrimsley

Haha yea mine changes pretty often too. Hopefully this will be a setup that sticks.

WS6LOVE

Great to hear. Keep us posted on the new build and pics

sjgrimsley

I will be sure to keep you guys updated. The plan is to get the engine in the car and running for a month or two before doing the upgrades. Everything I do I'll post though.

sjgrimsley

Ok here are a couple of pics for you guys. First three are the 400 still in the truck (hopefully will be out this weekend), and the last is the engine bay on the car. Everything needs a thorough cleaning, I know lol

sjgrimsley

Again.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Wow, I've never seen a q-jet on a Torker before.

sjgrimsley

Yep. Dad is in love with them. He has the secondaries wired shut as well.

TRANSAMCRAZY

stock 400 cheve came with a -15cc dish that will lower your overall compression ratio, are u carbing it or tpi? I just built a 400 4-bolt for my 87 t/a and i went with the edelbrock performer rpm heads make sure u have the steam holes drilled!!!! if ur on a budget check out www.enginekits.com Master rebuild kit 414.00 pistons and all i ended up getting their 434 stroker kit (not 4 a budget build) ur 76 400 is a 2 bolt but it is every bit a strong as a 4 bolt according to 2 local machine shops around my area i currently have 2 2-bolt 400's and 2 4-bolt 400's just sitting around for a just in case, i would not throw any major performance parts on a stock engine for the chance of grenadeing the bottom end. u can get en eagle crank for 144.00 which is stronger than stock. If ur on a budget run carb, cause TPI performance parts and all the porting that i had to have done cost me a pretty penny i'm 7k into my engine and still have not heard it run due to lack of $$$$ for more speed parts.

TRANSAMCRAZY

u have to have steam holes drilled for the 400, just built a 434 with edelbrock performer rpm heads

sjgrimsley

Well for now I'm just going to be running with stock heads. I am going to be keeping my cc q-jet and factory intake or get a performer intake. And as far as a stronger crank etc. goes, I'm not gonna be driving the mess outta this thing haha it's just gonna be a fun daily driver that can shred tires and embarass all the four-bangers haha (305 just doesn't cut it).

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

id out the 400 in the corner for awhile and just ride the 305. save up your money and build the 400 as you go until its where you want it. then in a year or two your 400 will be built and will really kill some 4 bangers.

sjgrimsley

Thats a good idea. 305's pretty much on its way out though. It needs to be completely re-worked and I'm not sure how long it will last haha. The 400 only has about 20,000 total miles on it though. And adding to the build later on down the road wont be difficult at all and I'm sure I'll want to add to it lol. But for now, it will be just fine the way its going in.

sjgrimsley

Engine is on its way out tomorrow.

sjgrimsley

Got it out yesterday about 2:00.

sjgrimsley

More.

sjgrimsley

Last two.

sjgrimsley

Alrighty. Engine is painted and ordered a bunch of stuff today.

Patriot Performance Heads 2181
Edelbrock Performer Intake 2101
Edelbrock pushrods
Edelbrock aluminum water pump
Edelbrock TES Headers
Hooker cat back with Aerochamber muffler

Stuff should be in either Wed. or Thurs.

I love Chevy orange haha
Manifolds and fuel pump are just for paint mock up.
Oh and thats a GM mini starter off a 2000 Suburban. Works great.

sjgrimsley

Alright so ordered everything and its all in.
Only thing left to do is drill the steam holes and slap it all back together.
When I called Patriot to order the heads they said
it would be about 3 months before they got them out
so I just went ahead and ordered everything from Summit.
Now, getting the 305 out is going to be the fun part. Well worth it though.
Everyone around here is saying this combo should run like a scalded dog lol

game1939

love the vortecs, love the 400. my love for the 400 made me build my 383(400's hard to come by here)

sjgrimsley

The engine is ready to go in the car.
Now I just need to get the 305 out and clean up the engine bay.
I'll get a pic of how the 400 looks in a couple hours.

sjgrimsley

I find it annoying when someone posts on their own thread about posting some more updates and then never posting on the thread again, and here I went and done the very same thing. Well it's about a year and a half later and there is a 406 with sequential fuel injection and DBW Ls1 throttle body mated to a 4L60E from an '02 TrailBlazer. So yea this time I will put up some pics. I feel like such a hypocrite. Lol.

chevysquid

iTrader: (7)

I see it now has new pistons and a crank. Did you run into problems with the factory bottem end or just decide to build it up?