joshh44

im rebuilding my car from the ground up pretty much.
gutted the car. fixing all the rust i can fine. soon to be rust free
anyways i have a question for you guys.
im making a strickly a drag car with very very minimal road use.
would a Big Block be way better then a small block? like as in HP wise.
you can make a pretty mean small block for dirty cheap. i was woundering can you do the same with the big block? but get even more HP for spending the same amount of money as you would spend on the small block?

i got a 350 bare block sitting in my Garage.
and there is a guy down my road with the big block in his old gungy trunk and the owner says hes thinking of selling it i just gotta find out the price.
what are your suggestions?

go Big or Small? iv read lots of threads and other info over the internet and it doesnt seem to difficult to do the swap.
----------
big block = alot more cubes the a small block.
if i were to go big. i would stroke it out. even more cubes
but is the parts alot more expensive then the small block engines?
thats what i kinda mean. just to clearify if my last post was ahard to understand.
im in a huge debate about eather build a 383. or go 454 and stroke it.
i know there heavy engines but its going to have a full fiberglass front end kit and the works to help the front end weight. so im not worryed about the engine being fairly heavy.

AlkyIROC

The cost to make a high HP SBC will be more than the cost to make a BBC with the same power. Spending the same amount on a BBC will make more power. A 500 HP SBC is a pretty powerful engine. A 500 HP BBC is a mild engine. Building an 800 HP NA SBC would be a very extreme engine but can be easily doable with a big BBC.

On the other end of the scale, there are slightly hopped up SBC engines that can easily outperform a relatively stock BBC.

joshh44

well my budget for the small block would be abour $6500 - $7000 for a good drag racing engine. i already got the block so thats not a problem.
but i probably can get alot more power out of the BBC with the same amount of money. but the problem is trying to find a good BBC engine. and the other downside is i dont have to much info on about BBC engines as i have in sbc engines. ill have to do alot of reading about BBC.

if you were me. what would you do? BBC it up or stay with the sbc?

82zzz

is that the budget for the engine only or the complete car? I would go big block in a second if it was me,but plan on upgading the rest of the car to handle the power you will have.

joshh44

that budget is just for the engine.
thats what i would like to spend anyways. cheaper is always better tho haha
and yes ill be upgrading the rest of he car for the extra power.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

so you have 20k easily to toss at this to support all the supporting mods?

might as well just plop down 15k on a super nice turn key car off ebay or racingjunk.com and save the 5 years of building.

joshh44

i rather do all the building my self then someone else do it.
i really enjoy working on my car. even if it takes me 5 years to finish. it will be worth it in the end for me. i can enjoy it that much more knowing what i did

1985WS6transam

iTrader: (4)

I'm pretty sure an aftermarket brand makes a small block 454...
Really it is how much power do you really want. A big block has its advantages but I hear getting headers custom made for them is a Bit(h. People will tell you also that weight is a problem with them but I disagree because of all the extra power you will be making to compensate for that weight.
Dont forget you are going to spend a few thousand more on a rear end and another few thousand on a good transmission. Then all the saftey equipment...

I wish I could build a 454SBC. I was talking to a guy I bought some parts from for my dads corvette and he was showing me pics of a Camaro that he put a BBC in and he said if he was asked to do it again he wouldnt just because of the the custom work that needs to be done.
Goodluck.

Air_Adam

Go find a junkyard 454 somewhere... look at truck and RV wreckers. Find a healthy core to build and go that way. 6 grand into a 454 will go alot farther than it will with a 350.

joshh44

i did some shopping around for parts and i can get a 9" rear for $2000. and its a direct bolt in. but thats pretty good expensive i thought for a rear. but that comes with the breaks and gears and everything. so i guess it kinda makes it up with that price.
i also found a TH400 which im going to be putting in the car even if i dont go with the BBC. i found one that can handle up to 900hp for $1700. i thought that was not to bad of a deal. but once i get it and getting the TQ. converter and shifter it will be over $2000 for that.
so already im looking at $4000. and then you got all the suspension upgrades. (which i was going to do anyways) so lets say about $2000 for a complete suspension upgrade. (front and back) i was going to get the Complete Coil over/ K-member front end kit from Spohn. should help for some of the wight and have some more clearence for headers and other things.
$8000 im at now. and now stiffing up the frame. lets say about $700ish. for roll bar and subframes.
getting all the proper seatbelts and what not for the inside. lets say another $700 for gettings seats, seat belt, steering wheel, and fuel cell.
already over $9000. and thats not even with an engine in it yet.
thats about a years worth of play money for me if i dont go crazy with money. then i got another year for possible $9000 if im not crazy with it. if not more. by then i could probably use that money for a good decent engine.

i looked at the 454 small block a year ago on a website but they want somewhere iover $10,000 for a turn key. but that was then. im not to sur what the prices are now. im sure its cheaper.
i also was watching a tv show the other day and some guy said he had a 461 small block. he said the engine just came out afew months ago.
the world of small blocks going big!!

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

exactly why you should BUY a turn key car for 1/3rd the money and if stuff breaks then add parts then so you get some wrench time. Trust me, I have 24k into this car and WISH I would have bought one done for 10k and saved 7 years of hassles.

1985WS6transam

iTrader: (4)

I hope by now that EVERYONE knows that you will NEVER see the money that you put into a car back.... If you buy a part new the second you bolt it on to the car the value is decreased. I am not done with my car, but I was talking to my father tonight about how much money I have put into my engine alone and realized that me and him look at things differently. I would rather spend extra money be able to have the satisfaction of saying that I let me repeat I did the work rather then someone else. I am sure he feels the same way. Plus spending $1000 24 times over the course of 7 years is alot easier then spending $10,000 once. Sometimes it is just a budget thing.

joshh44

to me, i think i would enjoy the car that much more knowing that i build this and not someone else. and if somethings breaks. you cant complain and get angry at someone but only yourself. tho drag racing is one expensive sport. but i love the thrill of getting lanched into your seat.
but knowyhing that you built something that can do that is just much more meaning full then buying it already done.
and its also a good learning experence as well.

joshh44

ill look into some turn keys and do some pricing and part pricing to know exatcly what i would want. and find out the total price would be.

bb87camaro

I am putting a 454 in my wifes car as we speak.I just got it running and have to finish the brakes and wireing.The car had the heater already out and the wiper motor off.The motor fit in fairly easily.Summit racing makes the big block headers and they worked perfect.They were the most expensive part so far at 450.00 dollars uncoated and around 650.00 coated.I used the stock small block mounts and an HEI distributor.The distributor clears fine .It's a little tight getting past lip that hangs out.I put a power glde in and modified the trans mount myself.I cut all the brackets off the stock camaro rear end and welded them to a chevelle 12 bolt.
Before you drop the motor in move the brake lines by the steering shaft to the driver side of steering shaft.If I knew how to do it I would post pics but I am not very good on a computer.

Stevo

iTrader: (45)

The worst part about building a car...is all the little **** you have to buy. It can be the killer of the project. Add at least $2000 to whatever total you came up with...Also the part of trying to build the same car you set out to build. Lots of times you change directions or can't make up your mind on which way you want to go. Or you do things twice.

Ask me about it...im very far over my head in a project now. Over what was spent on the car to start with and about the only things it'll "still" need or require in the future is a 12 bolt or 9" and a fresh paint job. The rest of the car is no where near stock and/or has been replaced.

AlkyIROC

I'm always being asked how much my car is worth. I'd have an estimated value around $40,000 and it's nowhere near being a show car. The engine alone is worth about $20,000.

$40,000 can buy a very nice turnkey car. At least with my car, I can say it's my car and not someone else's. I bought it as a street car and made it into the race car it is today. If I were to sell it, I'd never get what back what I put into it.

Look on www.racingjunk.com for some really good deals on race cars. Many people are taking a loss just to sell off cars they can't afford to run.

As for the big small blocks, going really big means not having any factory parts in it which means very high cost. A 454 SBC making 700 hp will cost a whole lot more than building a 454 BBC making 700 hp.

joshh44

im in the process of trying to figure out what i want haha.
i got the 350 block in my garage right now. but i could find a 454 in the junkyard fairly easy for fairly cheap as well. it would get rebuild and bored out and everything like that. what ever i would do with a BBC engine i would do the same with the 350 block. get it bored out and decked, washed, honed and all the goodies. i can even look in afew junkyards for some decent heads for now and upgrade them threw out the years. it still would be a big improvment over the 350 forsure. i was going to stroke out the 454. and forged bottom end (want something that will last and dont have to worry about the bottom end exploding on me for whatever reason.
if i did. i can probably do the swap and get it up and running fairly cheaply but i know the T5 wont last much longer. same with the rearend. i can always look for a 12 bolt in a junkyard and rebuild it. new gears and other things. make sure its the right width and all or fairly close.

its just making the decesion to do it! i can always sell my 350 and use that money for the 454. i can sell it to my nighbor. he is a huge gear head.

only thing is how much wight does the BBC compair to the SBC?

joshh44

if i wanted to buy a race car i would but i dont really want to. i would like to make a racecar and saying i can make a race car. i also want to build it with my father. get some father and son bonding.
he knows cars fairly well so he can teach me afew things here and there.
if it takes me 2-4 years to finish the build. i think its totally worth it. the car will mean more to me then it has since i built it with my dad. it would mean something to him as well.
and i think it will be quite enjoyabe tobuild as well. even tho there will be some tought frusterating times but overall it will be quite fun. i love modifying things. when i was younger i modify my remote control cars. put bigger motors. or more suspension or changing out the wheels and what not.

i like it. things like this wont be to bad for me.
it be different.

but i think a 700hp BBC would be alot cheaper then trying to get a 350 to have 700hp.

bb87camaro

A big block is only about 50 to 75 pounds heavier.

joshh44

50 - 75 lbs?
is that all? that doesnt seem right.

i was thinking more like 100 maybe 200 max.

bb87camaro

This is a bit of a coincidence that this big block 87 camaro I am building is for my wife and she is from Canada also.

bb87camaro

I thought so also but I went on ask .com and found a site that had the info.
I have already installed this big block in her car and have maybe 5000.oo in whole car.Depending on how fast you want to go.This motor I built about ten years ago and it ran 12.s in my street car 11s on small nitrous.The only thing dif in this car is a glide instead of a turbo 400 and 4000 stall instead of 2500 stall.I expect 11. or high tens. no nitrous .This motor has very little done to it and has stock heads ,hydraulic cam.,Forged standard bore pistons, and balanced.

joshh44

gotta love canada.

AlkyIROC

Factory stock SBC compared to a factory stock BBC is roughly 150 pound difference. Ditch the heavy cast intake on the BBC and the weight really drops. Changing the cast iron heads to aluminum saves about another 70 pounds (weight of one cast iron head).

A BBC with aluminum heads and intake is roughly the same weight as a factory stock SBC with no aluminum parts.

The BBC can be built from mild to wild depending what your goals are. There are a number of 11 and 12 second local cars with nothing more than a mild BBC running on pump gas.

joshh44

well for now i woudlnt mind running 12 or 11s for awhile on pump gas. until i save up some more money to upgrade the engine some more. i would like to see 10s even 9s eventrually. i know going to a small block and trying to go into the 9s would cost alot more money then a BBC i was planning on supercharging the BBC if i ever decided to go down that road with the BBC. that why i was planning on getting the forged bottem end and just have the cast pistons for now. and by the time i get the supercharger. i would rebuild the engine and intall the S/C and get forged pistons then. or get the forged now and not worry about it. ill decied when i get to that point.

i would most defentally get Alumium intake and heads. i was planning on getting the tubulare K member and A-arm coil over kit from sphon. that should lighten the front end alittle bit. i was also thinking about getting the Fiberglass front end with fiberglass hood. that should lighten it up abit up front to. since its goin to be a drag car. im still debating about the lexan windows tho. ill see. i did some mroe research into that.
im in the process of lighting up my car now acturally.

back to topic!

for a mild 454 build up. what would tha mild build be? simple cam swap with new intake?
i gotta look into some alumium heads and price them out.

AlkyIROC

Cast heads, 781 or 049 with 2.19/1.88 valves, basic bowl blend and port work. Aluminum intake. Camshaft in the low to mid .6xx range.

partsbin321

I am in the process of putting an aluminum headed 402 BBC into my 87. The Hooker headers I bought are a real PITA. I had a 406 SBC in the car before the BBC, and the small block ran pretty good (12.80) on all motor. I just wanted to try something different and have something that everyone else doesn't have. All of the money on my BBC is on the top end so when I upgrade to a bigger block I should have all of the swap issues figured out. I haven't had much time to work on the car lately but it is still coming together pretty good. My goal is a good looking street car that consistently runs 11.50's with 1.60 or better 60 foot times, just the way I pull it out of the garage. I am hooking the BBC up to a LS1 T56 VIA a Quick Time Bellhousing.