83Daytona500

i have an 83 trans am 25th anniversery daytona 500 pacecar... for those of you who know thats a 5.0 cross -fire injection (SLOWWWWWW) i need to know if i just just do an engine swap or if it would be worth it to do and intake swap and if so which 305 intake should i choose? is tbi possible with my block? or would tpi or carburated be my best option i need some oppinions and a direction to go in... (HELP)

ljnowell

Basically any genI sbc chevy intake will fit it. If it is a post 87 intake, you will need to drill a little bit on it. No big deal. The intake does not need to come off of a 305. Really though, you may see improvement going to a carb setup, but the intake wont make that much of a difference overall. For example, if you took a stock 4bbl car and removed the factory intake for an edelbrock, you really wont see much improvement. Mainly because that isnt the bottleneck at that point. When you get rid of the crappy cam and do something about the heads then you would see a gain from the intake. The gain is proportional to the other modifications on the engine. FYI, i have seen cars running in the 12's with a GM 4bbl intake.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

As stated, you improve a car's performance by identifying its bottleneck, and upgrading it. That will, in turn, expose a new bottleneck; you do the same to that one. And so forth until your bank account is empty.

However, I disagree with his recommendations for upgrades.

The FIRST AND MOST HEINOUS BOTTLENECK in that motor is the exhaust. Every single piece of it needs to go to the dump, all the way from the heads to the back bumper. Replace it, all at once, as a complete assembly, with a chassis-specific system, but one that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that will work with the LU5. I'd suggest either SLP or Edelbrock headers; a Catco high-flow cat; and the cat-back exhaust of your choice. Get the ones for something like a 88 TPI 350, or a 84 L69. Remember: GET NOTHING THAT WILL WORK WITH ANYTHING THAT YOU NOW HAVE, because if it bolts up to what you've got, it will PRESERVE the bottleneck (the tiny Y-pipe size) instead of eliminating it. Don't go the "custom" route, because the "custom" system that's anywhere near as good as an out-of-the-box bolt-on, is much more rare than you might think. And they usually end up costing more. I'd strongly suggest also, that you get the headers ceramic-coated.

His recomendation for swapping the cam is dead on. That's the 2nd most heinous bottleneck. A good cam choice for that motor is one of the smaller non-roller computer-compatible ones from Comp or Crane. Look at the Comp 12-402-4, also referred to as the 260AH-14.

The 3rd is the car's gears. Most likely you've got 2.93 gears, and at best, they're 3.23s. 3.73s will wake it up like you won't believe.

Those 3 things right there will give the car about 50 more HP or more, and allow you to actually use them besides.

Another real kick in the seat of the pants is available from some chip tuning. Unfortunately you have about the most Stone Age computer out there, so there's not alot you can do with it as it is. However, it's just a TBI car, at the core; so ANY later-model TBI computer will work with it. And those do allow for a good bit of tuning. Take a look at the TBI board on this site, and see what people over there are using. also look at www.turbocity.com for their CFI upgrades. THey're kind of $$$, but you might find something you can use.

The only way you'll make the car faster by un-bolting and re-bolting the big pieces that sit all over the top of the engine, is by lightening it; specifically, the driver's wallet will weigh less.

83Daytona500

i just ordered hooker headers and brand new catback exaust

83Daytona500

see cost really isnt an issue a have a decent job and i have absolutly no bills so its only time till my car is this fastest thing on the road

83Daytona500

wtf is a bottle neck

SSC

A bottle neck is a term we use to describe an area of low flow.

If I remember right there was another CFI intake avalible from edelbrock. You may be able to get your hands on one of these to help flow a bit.

stope21

a bottle neck:
Imagine a beer bottle.
Turn it upside down when its full.
The beer will takea few seconds to completly flow all the way out.
Now imagine a beer bottle without the "bottle neck."
It will now resemble a cup from your cupboard.
Fill it with beer and turn it upside down.
Instantly all the beer will flow out.

More specifically its an area that provides decreased flow when compared to other parts of the unit.

It isnt always the cheapest to just keep fixing the bottle neck. If you just keep fixing the biggest bottle neck, then eventually you'll have made a loop and be back to replacing something you have replaced already with an even better part. To do it the cheapest and easiest, you need to plan ahead sometimes. Eventually you're engine internals will become the bottleneck, and then your block. Plan ahead, many times you can get the same power cheaper by going with a 383 setup rather than a 350. The saying here is "there is no replacement for displacement."

83Daytona500

http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog...&vid=6&pcid=52


are these what you're talking about at all?

ljnowell

Actually, I wasnt making recommendations as much as I was giving examples. IMO, its almost a given that the first thing to go is the exhaust, from the heads to the tailpipes.

Now if he would have asked, what do i do next...............

1991 RS/SS

Glad to see you ordered the headers and cat-back, with the car being a 1983, dont overlook a new cat too, it is probably about time for a new one (new one might be necessary for proper fit anyway and to eliminate the bottleneck).

Like the other guys said, dont overlook a new cam and a reprogram (not sure how much can be done to an 83 computer, but be sure to get a custom burn and not an off the shelf chip).

Not sure what heads you have, but maybe you can pick up some better OEM ones somewhere for cheap. I am not a casting number expert, but plenty of people on this board are. Post your casting numbers and maybe somebody can make a recommendation.

83Daytona500

wow this has to be the most helpful site ive seen so far... all the other ones talk about a bunch of bull ****... big time cred to you guys and the founders of this site!!!

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

The worst part of the cross-fire injection engine is well.... the cross-fire injection itself. You can do all the cam swaps, head swaps, exhaust, etc. but until you remove the cross-fire injection you haven't got much hope for realizing improvements. I'm just going to tell it to you straight because it will benefit you by saving you a lot of money in the long run. Sell the car and get a Camaro that is just a few years newer without cross-fire injection. Then have all the fun you want.

83Daytona500

i bought the car for 900 bucks how much do you think i could get for the car keep in mind that its a pace car

1991 RS/SS

You are going to need to weigh out what you want to accomplish and what you are willing to give up.

Being that it is a pace car, It may be cool to keep it original with the previously mentioned changes, but if you want to get more power and dont care, a swap to a properly done carb setup is an economical way to get more power. Keep in mind that exhaust, head, and cam upgrades are still equally, if not more necessary.

Another option if you are worried about the value of the car is to do a swap to a carb or new EFI setup, but keep the crossfire injection and ALL the wiring and parts to put it back on down the road.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The simplest approach, I would think, would be to swap on a later '88-'92 LO3 TBI set-up. Except for the center two bolt holes on each side of the manifold, it would bolt on (and that issue isn't that hard to address). ECM & wiring are easily available from those who have swapped to something else.

As you'll hear on the TBI forum, the single throttle body system has the fewest moving parts of any induction system out there. The Crossfire had potential but, like so often happens, the factory just didn't "finish the job", and the aftermarket didn't pick up the ball. The LO3/LO5 systems suffer similarly but are much better supported by the aftermarket. Still nothing like the support carb and other EFI systems have received, but much better than Crossfire.

Of course, exhaust and cam would still need to be addressed. And, carb would be a lot simplier. Just wouldn't be EFI.

You'd have to post on the History/Restoration forum to get an idea what a Pace Car is worth, collector-wise. My guess is, not much. Original or modified.