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Engine SwapEverything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.
Not putting a real pmd engine in it. Got a cheap deal on a wrecked 94 ta gt with a freshly rebuilt stroker lt1 with corvette trans and msd ignition and jet hyperchip going into it. Wish I'd kept the gt hatch since mine is low style lol. My 85 square body is pretty badass. Bought a 496 ci gen v bbc for it. It's my dream truck, used to play with the hot wheels. Only way I'd get rid of it would be 64 to 65 gto good running original shape.
Not putting a real pmd engine in it. Got a cheap deal on a wrecked 94 ta gt with a freshly rebuilt stroker lt1 with corvette trans and msd ignition and jet hyperchip going into it. Wish I'd kept the gt hatch since mine is low style lol. My 85 square body is pretty badass. Bought a 496 ci gen v bbc for it. It's my dream truck, used to play with the hot wheels. Only way I'd get rid of it would be 64 to 65 gto good running original shape.
My saga continues. Now that the mounts are in place, I'm figuring out the T5, clutch, torque arm dilemma. I have a junk T5 for fitment purposes, and wanted to see all the deviance's' needed to overcome. Slave cyl. mounting options, torque arm, and rear mount. So this is what a T5 looks like from the rear, with a BOP bellhousing.
A T5 expert informs me that there's enuff meat on the tailhousing to mill it flat, so that's my 1st order of business.
Been researching for weeks, tranny options, and the TKOs, and finally decided on the TKX, "IF", and only if I went aftermarket. But with the low power of the 301T motor, I didn't wanna spend 3K on a tranny capable of withstanding over 500 ft/lbs, when my motor only makes a bit more than 1/2 that. I finally found a super deal on a 91 WC V8 T5 from a 3rd gen F body, which I hope to pick up this weekend. It looks like I'll be able to use the torque arm mounting, (with minor trimming), and the same driveshaft, and crossmember location. Not sure about the cable driven speedo.
Might be easier using an '82 Camaro/Firebird V8 dual pattern Chevy/BOP T10/Saginaw bellhousing and modifying it to tilt the transmission at 17 degrees like the Chevy-only pattern T5 bellhousings..
A friend converted the unreliable, broken prone mechanical clutch on his '83 Trans Am with an aftermarket hydraulic setup. If fit well and uses a throwout bearing style slave
cylinder. I'd have to ask him what brand it is.
Hi Den, 71 455 HO, M-22, T/A? Really cool. Fun cars those were. Got a 73 in the garage, (condition 5) that I've had for over 30 yrs, and haven't gotten to...yet.
You mention a "uni-bell", for a manual bellhousing in 82. Never heard of one. Especially with the tilted tranny bolt pattern. I know the 80s brought uni-bells on the TH200R4s, but never heard or seen one on a stick. Have you?
And I have a stock 3rd gen F-body hyd. clutch system right now, that I'm trying to make serviceable, but the internal one is a last resort. Thanks for the info.
Since the Pontiac V8 was canceled so late during the 3rd-gen design the '82 F-body manual transmission bellhousing is dual pattern for Chevy and BOP. engines.
It also has the clutch fork tilted downward about 20 degrees to clear the floor pan compared to previous bellhousings where the fork is about parallel with the ground.
Unfortunately it's only made to install the transmission "strait-up" as first yea r3rd-gens had Borg-Warner T10 and Saginaw 4-speeds and it would need to be modified
to install a tilted F-body T5 transmission.
I had a buccaneer red '73 Trans Am 455 D-port/TH400 but sold it about 10 years ago.
WOW! How cool is that! I'm 65, and been a gearhead my whole life, and never seen that...anywhere. I can't imagine how rare that is. And as neat a piece it is, I don't see it's benefit. At least for me. If the tranny bolt pattern was tilted, then it would be the rage, amongst us Pontiac loyalists, that want a tilted T5 in a 3rd gen, with the Pontiac engine. That has-ta be an aftermarket piece, Den. Why would GM make that for the 80s? What was the application? Was there a stick shift olds or Buick, (not), that came with a V8, and a stick? I can't think of one, can you? Really confusing, but interesting.
It's not an aftermarket piece nor is it very rare because tens of thousands of '82 V8 manual transmission F-bodies were made. There are usually a half dozen for sale on eBay at any given time.
The GM part number is 14037657 and it was specifically designed and only used on 1982 Camaros and Firebirds, It's really the only piece that remains from the original design plan to have the
3rd-gen Firebirds being Pontiac V8 powered.
No kidding. You mean to say that all 82s, (and maybe 1/2 of 83s) came with this style bell only? Straight up because they only had ST-10s in them? With mechanical clutch linkage? Maybe they made 10s of thousands of them, but I'll bet a bunch were crushed over the years, and that number is reduced to.....? I do swap meets many times a yr, longer than 82, and hunted junk yards, and can't say I've ever seen one. Here in the North East anyway. Once again tho, a uni-bell doesn't benefit most people, unless you plan on swapping motors often, for race purposes. Or maybe the hole for the clutch fork, is only suited for the 3rd gen. mech. clutch Z bar lever? Other than that, most people have a BOP application, or a chevy. And it would amaze me, if the reason is because they planned on using the Pontiac, and kept the bell in production, even after GM scrapped the Poncho V8 eng. Thanks for sharing that.
Figured I'ld show the adapter I had made to make the T5 fit with the BOP bell mount straight up. Still running the fitment stage, and working on the torque arm mount next.
My saga continues. Now that the mounts are in place, I'm figuring out the T5, clutch, torque arm dilemma. I have a junk T5 for fitment purposes, and wanted to see all the deviance's' needed to overcome. Slave cyl. mounting options, torque arm, and rear mount. So this is what a T5 looks like from the rear, with a BOP bellhousing.
A T5 expert informs me that there's enuff meat on the tailhousing to mill it flat, so that's my 1st order of business.
Been researching for weeks, tranny options, and the TKOs, and finally decided on the TKX, "IF", and only if I went aftermarket. But with the low power of the 301T motor, I didn't wanna spend 3K on a tranny capable of withstanding over 500 ft/lbs, when my motor only makes a bit more than 1/2 that. I finally found a super deal on a 91 WC V8 T5 from a 3rd gen F body, which I hope to pick up this weekend. It looks like I'll be able to use the torque arm mounting, (with minor trimming), and the same driveshaft, and crossmember location. Not sure about the cable driven speedo.
i gotta ask where did u find the block part of the engine mount ibe been looking and cant find ****
The metal block brackets are the originals to the 1980 301, and is a common Pontiac mount bracket. Even the rubber frame mounts are from the 80. Just had ta re drill new holes in the 84 crossmember..
I actually just dropped the 301T in, today, and there's no problem with pan clearance.
P.S. @dens71, FWIW, the uni-bell I bought, doesn't work on a Pontiac. I found out the hard way today. It'll bolt to the block OK, as long as there's no flywheel. The Poncho flywheel teeth hit on the bottom. By about 1/2 an inch. It's not the end of the world. I can use it as a Polish blueprint for my BOP bell. Then sell the uni bell. Don't know who would actually want it tho.
Last edited by tajoe; 10-25-2022 at 08:40 PM.
Reason: other
I actually just dropped the 301T in, today, and there's no problem with pan clearance.
P.S. @dens71, FWIW, the uni-bell I bought, doesn't work on a Pontiac. I found out the hard way today. It'll bolt to the block OK, as long as there's no flywheel. The Poncho flywheel teeth hit on the bottom. By about 1/2 an inch. It's not the end of the world. I can use it as a Polish blueprint for my BOP bell. Then sell the uni bell. Don't know who would actually want it tho.
Beast? LOL. It's a 301. It's not much different than the 305, power wise, size and weight wise. It literally weighs the same. Maybe a touch wider. But there is a minor height issue with the turbo intake, carb, to cold air pan, under the hood. Soon to be rectumfied tho.
i ment beast as in size lol i always wantyed to try to use the turbo intake and what not on a 400 or 455 tho also u think this woul dwork on a tublar k memebvr from umi
The turbo intake is a prehistoric component, and only fits a 301 eng..Today there are far better options for more power outta the traditional Pontiac V8.
I'm using this set-up in my 84 purely for nostalgia sake, and as a tribute to what Pontiac could've had, if corporate didn't squash their V8 program. Most cars thru the 80s were way down on power compared to what there was 10-20 years before, and 10-20 years after. There's always a few exceptions, but my combobulation will mirror the 80s, as far as performance goes. But at least it will be purely PMD, and not a half-breed.
As for the tubular aftermarket K-frame, I know nothing about it, but would "guess" there would be more room than the factory subframe. Don't know what your intentions are.
im getting ready to drop a poncho 400 in my 82 waiting on motor mounts myself but i always like th eidea of he turbo 301 could of been such a beast but it was honestly before its time if only they had a chance to devolpe it fuirther i bet we would of seen that system on thre 455 too
so atm i have a spare 400 block without heads bolted to my trans with a adapter plate i have to center enigne in tyhr bay to mark for new holes still as to solve gauges im gonna go with a hawks after markert bezel thatr allows after matket gauges that look like factory i dont feel like choping a good harness apart just to keep my oil ghauge and water temp gauge but other then that i didnt get far but i got some time off gonna start working again here soon will let you know also i went butler motor mounts if you wanna see pics i can post a few
This is how I accessed the lower bolts, pretty easy.
The upper rear wasn't too bad either.
The top fwd one was a bit harder, and had to go by feel, with a long open end wrench, on an angle. Wasn't fun, but was doable. Because the new holes are lower, I'm thinking they're more visible, but like I said, haven't been able to get in the garage for over a week.
This is how I accessed the lower bolts, pretty easy.
The upper rear wasn't too bad either.
The top fwd one was a bit harder, and had to go by feel, with a long open end wrench, on an angle. Wasn't fun, but was doable. Because the new holes are lower, I'm thinking they're more visible, but like I said, haven't been able to get in the garage for over a week.
thats how i got mine off and ihat to go throught the spring perch too been thinking might as well replace my springs now like i planned since im just gonna remove them for easy access
To access the upper fwd nut, and by going thru the spring perch, you mean this way? you can just barely see the upper nut, (looking thru the top coil)
I had contemplated this method too, "but" didn't have-ta to get that drastic. As I mentioned B4, i wuz able to hold the nut with a wrench thru the same hole that I accessed the rear upper bolt. I thought I had a photo of that angle, but don't see it. i believe it's the same hole in my 2nd photo posted above this post.. And because the Pontiac mount hole is lower, I was under the impression it would be easier to see and reach. We'll see soon.
How's your progress going? I have mine bolted up. I'm working on my wiring now, then I can put my fresh built trans in and let her eat
The holiday season is a killer for me, with work, and social obligations, so my projects always go on hold. Most of that is now behind me, and the normal daily grind should get back on track..... starting this weekend. Good to hear you're makin fwd progress. Spring isn't far off. Hopefully we can at least see yours motivating, under its own power.
my goal is to have it moving under its own power within the next 2 months but if i cant get that done it has to be broken in but u i have 2 months before the car is put on a trailer so i can move home from college once i get a new light harness(its otw) i can put the rest of the front end together in the mean time ive been fiinishing up engine wiring then i have my gauge wiring to do and fan and fuel pump then we should be good to go oh and put trans in but that will take 5 minutes when i transport it to the schools shop lol
i spent to much timer trying different kinfd of headers could of made one set work if i out a spacer under motor mounts but then wouldnt clear hoods and i rather have ,my stock tubro hood
got a quick questiun i saw u said u had to go ac delete to fit the down pipw or what not for the tubro does it look like it will fit without tubro want to know before i go order a new box and put ac back in my ride
Your car with AC should be OK. The other 3rd gen guy, who's already done that swap, had the AC box, and the downpipe fit. Not sure if he had to modify it to fit, but putting a Pontiac into the 3rd gen, the exhaust is the most problematic. Might as well be prepared for a custom system. At least with hedders. Even W/O a turbo.
Your car with AC should be OK. The other 3rd gen guy, who's already done that swap, had the AC box, and the downpipe fit. Not sure if he had to modify it to fit, but putting a Pontiac into the 3rd gen, the exhaust is the most problematic. Might as well be prepared for a custom system. At least with hedders. Even W/O a turbo.
im using maifolds off a 68 gto fit perfectly where they need to be i tried 3 sets oif headers and if i had the tube k meber would of worked so thats a idea for the futre but this sitn a race car its a cruiser i will race it but not to concerned about it atm
Headers would be a pain, I seen one guy years ago put a 455 in a 84 Firebird and he modified the headers. Some tubes he had to cut and twist and rebend to fit. Much easier to use Ram Air manifolds and down pipes.
Car been running great. Went on many road trips. Farthest one was 8 hours round trip, averaged 20mpg. Of course I have a TKX with overdrive that helps. With the torque of the Pontiac motor, car is a blast to drive. I see your making progress on your swap, looking good!
Thanks. In another "holding pattern". More unscheduled projects keeping me outta the garage. Soon I hope.
Glad to hear your car is co-operating. Any more photos?
Hi Den, 71 455 HO, M-22, T/A? Really cool. Fun cars those were. Got a 73 in the garage, (condition 5) that I've had for over 30 yrs, and haven't gotten to...yet.
You mention a "uni-bell", for a manual bellhousing in 82. Never heard of one. Especially with the tilted tranny bolt pattern. I know the 80s brought uni-bells on the TH200R4s, but never heard or seen one on a stick. Have you?
And I have a stock 3rd gen F-body hyd. clutch system right now, that I'm trying to make serviceable, but the internal one is a last resort. Thanks for the info.
Reading through here and just thought I would mention that GM has had unibells for longer than that. I have an early 70s TH350 that has a unibell. Came out of an original 1971 Chevelle when my buddy put a 6.0/4L80E into the car. I have also seen a few 3 and 4 spd Saginaw bellhousings that had both patterns in 70s vehicles that could have been produced with engines from various GM lines.
i bought a adapter plate for my th350 already had it built dont want to find a bop or unti bell and transfer everythign into it but evenutaly its getting a 4 speed need a few parts still like pedals hydrolic throw out bearing clutch and flywheel if the one i have cant be saved we will see but right now just wantr to get it going lol
so quick update enigne is in need to put trans in then i can break it all in been trying to get headers to fit and got long tubes in pain in the *** but worth it for the sound project been on hold last 6 weeks while i finished my last class of college caR got moved home 6 weeks ago i move home tomorrow so hopfuly i can finish it prolly will start with a th350 trans i have built but gonna go 4 speed manual as a 82 trans am it would of had a 4 speed from factory also considering console delete will update more soon
Glad to hear you've graduated. The college scam in this country is atrocious. Had 2 daughters go through, and what a bunch of **** the requirements are. I'm assuming all your posts are on a mobile phone, and they don't have punctuations.. Some of your posts are hard to read. I know the schools aren't teaching writing anymore either.
But at least you're making better progress on your car, than me. Get it done, before the wife, kids and house comes along. Cause if you're like me, the automotive priorites will take a back seat to life circumstances. But maybe, now that you have a degree, you can pay labor costs for other people to do your dirty work, and do the fun work yourself. So anyway, post us some photos of where you're at. you know what they say on the net? No pics, it never happened.
Glad to hear you've graduated. The college scam in this country is atrocious. Had 2 daughters go through, and what a bunch of **** the requirements are. I'm assuming all your posts are on a mobile phone, and they don't have punctuations.. Some of your posts are hard to read. I know the schools aren't teaching writing anymore either.
But at least you're making better progress on your car, than me. Get it done, before the wife, kids and house comes along. Cause if you're like me, the automotive priorites will take a back seat to life circumstances. But maybe, now that you have a degree, you can pay labor costs for other people to do your dirty work, and do the fun work yourself. So anyway, post us some photos of where you're at. you know what they say on the net? No pics, it never happened.
hey been while got the engine fully in on my swap but i decided to go manual instead and am looking at t5 swap how did u solve the trans mount issue with it being at a angle
08-29-2022, 07:31 PM
wasn't too bad either.
