Duke901

Just wondering what you think the better big block is.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Better for what?

Peak power?

Average power?

Peak torque?

Max RPMs?

Internally balanced?

$'s/HP?

Starting arguements?

tommyt

It's the same block. Different stroke. IMO, the 454 is better.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

But, better for what???

BTW, the blocks aren't the same. They have the same bore, same bearings, etc., but the blocks were different castings.

I know a guy who had a bare 454 block and clean 396 crank. Built it as a .040"-over 427. I'm about a second faster with my 396 than he is in the 1/4.

So, the question remains: Better for what???

Duke901

like better bore stroke ratio and peak power and $'s/HP

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

For all three, it's the 454.

The first two could be argued, but the 3rd is 454 hands-down.

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

454 on a side note I believe that 427 blocks need to be clearenced when using a 4.00 stroke in them

daverr

iTrader: (1)

NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

Yea there is, it`s called many different names like.. turbo , supercharger , n o2

hoogabooga

iTrader: (1)

i would go with sonnys 762ci no forced induction 92 octane 1150hp myself. its just the $53,000 thats the problem.


sonnysracing.com

Slick86

The 454 is a slug compared to the 396. The 454 and 427 are the same block and about 100 lbs more than the 396. For the power and weight, go with a 396

ljnowell

No way. How can you call the 454 a slug in comparison to a 396? You dont thing those extra 60 cubes make a difference when you start performance building? I would take a 454 over a 396 any day of the week.

Slick86

454's might have plenty of torque but a 396 can go all the way. 454's are to big to spin up quick but the 396 can hit the higher rpm's easy. Plus there is the hundred pound difference

bigarmzz

anyone rode in a ride with one of those ZZ502's yet?


it will make a beleiver out of ya.......(my neck still hurts from the whiplash):hail:


cubic inches rule

-bigarmzz-

90-irocdx3

iTrader: (4)

there is no way a 454 is a slug cause i have one in my ss 454 chevelle and i can kill a 396 in th quarter.

ljnowell

That is a generalization. I have seen plenty of 454s that "spin up" quickly. An engine is what you build it to be. The 454 will kill the 396, all things being equal.

ME Leigh

Thats pure the only way that is true is if your talking about a stock 454 out of a truck and a stock 396 with a solid cam, 11:1 compression, 4:11 gears in a Muscle car.

GM never built a performance 454 because it would make way to much power and the government, and insurance industry would kill them, along with the motor killing their customer base.

Duke901

All i got to say is 1970 LS6 454 450HP and 500TQ

83Chevy_Camaro

well i think the diffrence would be fuel mileage.. if i had a choice i'd go 427, with a 454 you are asking for problems with tranny and rear end, and hope your girlfirend doesnt take it for a spin.. then you probally can kiss it good bye.. HAHA

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

If you are going to argue that a 396 is better because it is "lighter" (dont even know if this statement is true), then why not run a small block 400? Same displacement, less weight.

Slick86

Its all about power to weight. From my experience we have always found the 396 to be a better motor overall. The 396 also is a lot better with torque than the 400. The 400 is not that strong of a motor because of the fact that its walls are so thin and you cannot go to radical and have the engine last very long.

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

A. If its all about power to weight, the small block 400 is going to weigh less than your big block 396.

B. The small block 400 has a larger bore/shorter stroke than a true 396 and a lighter rotating assembly, which means it will RPM better (which was your argument as to why you didnt like the 454 in the first place).

C. If you want torque, why not chose the 454 in the first place?

D. There are too many myths about small block 400's, i have several friends running over the top 400's for years without problems. They just got a bad reputation.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I don't know what planet you're from, Slick, but here we limit our discussions to what relates to "Planet Earth".

Slick86

You are missing my whole point. The 396 has the torque that the 400 does not have even though the 400 weights less. The 396 has about the same hp and tq as a 454 but with about a 100 to 150 lbs less. The 396 is the perfect middle block that has the best mix between the two and thats "coming from planet earth." Maybe a comment that actually helps the conversation would be useful five7kid

daverr

iTrader: (1)

i really love it when ppl say they build a motor for "torque".All motor make torque.Torque is a force thats all.hp is the number your after.big displacement motor= easier to make big power.
400 vs 396 argument is pointless cause there the same displacement(4 cube dif).I`ll take a big block over smallblock any day.The more power u want ,the more money its going to take.

hint when deciding over two different size motors always pick the bigger displacement.

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

They are both internal combustion engines with the same displacement and practically the same bore/stroke, so how can you argue that one will make better power than the other?

Slick86

A 377 will put out more power than a 383. Its all about combinations and that is a good one.

daverr

iTrader: (1)

im going to destroke big block cause its a good combinations. :lala:

the only time u want to destroke a motor is when it is required by rules or u want to go slower.

megaracerx

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

So you like a 377, even though it uses a block that you say sucks?

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

Who gives a rats *ss about a 377 or 383 this thread was about BBC`s

Air_Adam

Why would a 396 be any lighter than a 454? They are both big blocks, and they both weigh a ton.

I can see the 396 making more power than a 400sbc though, simply because big block parts will feed that many inches better than small block parts will.

The 454 is a much better motor than the 396 though. More torque, more horsepower, more inches, same weight. There is a reason that the 454 replaced the 427, and thats it. It did everything better than the 427. And the 427 did everything better than the 396 did.

Spectre

I think this sums it up nicely

Either way you'll rebuild it with newer parts ... it wont be
as it was originaly, so why argue which is fastest if it's
about to be rebuilt to you're specs ?

chev496

Well of course 454, me and Greezemonkey both know that. He he. After all, there is no replacment for displacement. And, well the 396 is no lighter than a 454, actually 1968 stock 396 weighs more than the 502HO. And if you want to get a kicker yet, it weighs more than the almighty 572CI. That is what aluminum heads do on these new motors. And if you really want a kicker, a BBC with alum. heads weigh about the same as a sbc with iron heads. So some people jus need there info right before they start talkin. If you want to know about big blocks, ask someone who has one or who has worked on one, not some goof who thinks he knows his shizznit.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

What's a "middle block"?

I don't think so.

That's what I was trying to say to you. You haven't contributed a single bit of useful information, because everything you've said is wrong or too general to be useful. For instance, a 396 and 454 built equally will have the 454 out-torquing and out-horsepowering the 396 - every time. You may get a 396 to produce the same peak HP as a 454, but it will have less torque. And require more RPMs to produce the power. Etc., etc., etc.

ME Leigh

454-396 dyno compare, exact same parts.

Slick86

Well sorry, I was just trying to help out. This is all the stuff I have learned in my building of motors and working in parts houses. I was just trying to speak from my experience but i guess i am just "some goof".

bigarmzz

wow, thats an impressive looking dyno stats there......400hp...wow.....


-bigarmzz-:hail:

ljnowell

This must be magazine experience.

Workign at the parts store doesnt make you an engine builder any more than workign at Microsoft makes me Bill Gates.

No, it wont. All things being equal it wont. If the two engines were built entirely equal down to every component in the valvetrain, I dont think it would. Its not all about combinations. I can make a 283 pull 400 horses, and I can make a 454 pull 400 horses. Guess which one will be cheaper?? Any engine can be made to rev high, to produce gobs of power. The 454 has more potential than the 396 because it has a lot more cubes, period.

You have some serious misconceptions about the engine building world.

FAST RS

What is the difference between a 454 and a pontiac 455. I know pontiac uses the same block from 350-455 but chevy has small block and big block. Can someone clear this up for me?

chev496

Well, alot of things are different. The heads, intake, distributor location, bellhousing, exhuast. Well, you could use a carb off of another chevy.. even a ford.. wow. He he. The 455 is a special block of its own. Not really a big block or a small block, they had the 400 out of that block and i think one smaller engine yet...

Air_Adam

Pontiac engines are just that... Pontiac engines. They share almost nothing in common with the Chevys.

blacksheep-1

Same with Buicks.
If you're looking to go fast cheap here's a good 454 combo.
Stock (cast crank), forged flat top trw pistons, stock iron heads, add an L88 cam and flywheel, and a 4.56 gear. (or) a 10 inch converter (I recomend turbo action) a turbo 350, same gear. Keep it under 6grand and enjoy.
But.. I feel the 427 open chamber and hi-deck 427's have a far greater over-all potential (meaning $$$$), especially when you can build a 510 out of the hi-deck.
Oh yeah, there were actually 2-400 engines in some years, the 396(402) which was a big block and the 400 which was a small block.

82crossfireTA

I went with the 427 small block shortblock from world, its 454 small block counterpart had a raised deck and i didnt feel like dealing with that. Besides my internals weigh in at that of your other small blocks, why not have the best of both worlds?

~Nick~

contactpatch

Was the Buick, Olds, Pontiac, Caddy, [big v-8]
the same block?

ljnowell

No, they share some similarities but they are not the same. Somewhere in this thread it was mentioned that 350-455 all share the same block. This isnt exactly true. They all share the same bore spacing, but not the physical casting. Just like SBC's all have the same bore spacing, but not physical casting./