plasmeh

iTrader: (10)

I'm having trouble finding out anything about this relay, specifically what relay I could get at Advance Auto/Autozone that would replace it. I am attaching the current model relay and the diagram with it. This relay on my 1986 IROC Camaro, originally 305 and carbureted, is located on the engine bay side of my passenger wheel well.





The relay in question is to the left of the passenger side strut mount all the way to the left in the picture, the little black box.



Symptoms: Sporadically, the car will not crank. I have checked all the wiring for power, ground, ignition and trigger to the starter and all of it checks out. I'm leaning heavily on the relay just giving up. The issue is that I cannot find a replacement for this relay and hope someone can help me out.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

That's not original, it's a normal switching relay.

plasmeh

iTrader: (10)

I'm a dummy with relays - is there a part number at Autozone or Advance Auto you might be able to feed me that would work?

skinny z

Hella relays are typically used for fog lights/aux lights, as far as I know.
The OEM relay is a standard part that you can get from Auto Zone or the like. In generic terms, you need the power requirements of what you turning on with the relay. Other than that they're all about the same. The Hella relay is generally nothing more than what the OEM style of relay is.
Having a "no crank" condition should not involve any relays other than the solenoid on the starter (which is a relay in and of itself) unless you have an electric fuel pump. It will be driven through a relay (or should be). This would not affect the cranking ability though.

If your condition is "cranks but won't start" then it's another story.
If that's the case, is your MSD wired through this relay?

skinny z

As an example, here's a link to Auto Zone and a page full of relays that'll do the job of the OEM part in your hand.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...mString=search

Just because they spec "cooling fan" doesn't mean that's all it's good for.

plasmeh

iTrader: (10)

The condition is no crank. I think I'll give this relay a try first and see if that remedies the issue. If not, I will try taking a look at the starter solenoid. Perhaps I've missed a loose connection somewhere.

The car has a mechanical fuel pump.

skinny z

Be sure to post up with your results. If it IS the relay in question, I'd like to know why.
It's location alone suggests that it might be someone's attempt at replacing the blower high speed relay particularly if the car was originally equipped with AC.
For what it's worth, we recently came a cross a no start condition (SBC in a P/U truck) and although all the connections appeared to be secure, there was a small amount of corrosion behind the larger positive cable stud which prevevnted the starter from spinning. The solenoid engaged ok, (an audible click) but no crank.
Good luck.
Nice looking engine bay by the way.

plasmeh

iTrader: (10)

Thanks! Yeah, I'll pop the car up on a jack this afternoon and see if anything is amiss on the starter. This condition is no crank, no clicks, nothing. However, if you try a few times, sometimes it will decide to crank over without an issue. Leads me to believe it's a grounding issue somewhere possibly. Is that a symptom of a failing solenoid on a starter? I have a summit mini high-torque starter cranking this 11.4:1 engine. I've had the starter for 4 years or so.

skinny z

No click could be a grounding issue. If you have 12 volts at the small solenoid terminal in the crank position then it's either a ground or the solenoid has failed. I trust you have a large ground from the battery negative post to the engine block. Another from the cylinder head to the firewall should also be considered.

plasmeh

iTrader: (10)

I have a 0 gauge ground from the negative on the battery to the engine block and another 0 gauge from the cylinder head to the firewall, yes. I'll see if I can check the solenoid out in a few hours here and see what's going on.

plasmeh

iTrader: (10)

So I did a completely unscientific test last evening after work. I jacked the car up, took a look around for loose wires, didn't find any, no corrosion. I lowered the car, went to start it and it didn't crank, no clicks, nothing. Out of frustration, I must have jiggled the car a bit while the key was in crank position because it cranked and fired when I did. I tried it again. Car wouldn't start with key to crank position (no crank condition) then I jiggled the car with my body weight and it cranked and fired up.

Obviously there is a loose connection somewhere that I just haven't found yet lol.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Is it possible that the ignition switch is simply out of adjustment?

plasmeh

iTrader: (10)

Hmm, possibly. I was holding that pretty firmly when I jiggled the car around though. I assume there is a way to re-adjust if necessary?

skinny z

There are a couple of places you can investigate.
The ignition switch is one.
There's also the neutral safety switch as well as the bulkhead connector (below the brake booster). Any of those might cause the problems you're having.
Another thing you may want to try is to use a remote start switch at the small solenoid terminal. There's a proper switch to use but most people just lay a screwdriver across the two terminals of the starter. Shorting the two terminals and jumping the starter eliminates all of the wiring ahead of it. If you do this and can repeat the starting procedure repeatedly then you'll at least have eliminated the solenoid as a possible problem.
Just a thought.

plasmeh

iTrader: (10)

Great, I'll give your suggestions a try. It's actually kind of a neat anti-theft device having to rock the car to start it lol

plasmeh

iTrader: (10)

I think you may be on to something here. I took the starter off, cleaned everything up, checked for continuity across all lines - no issues. However, I'm noticing that if I press the clutch pedal a certain way, it fires up every time. However, if I don't press it the right way, it is back to no-start, no-crank. Can I just run a wire that connects both leads on the clutch safety mechanism and bypass it altogether? It seems the problem is located there.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

It sounds as if the clutch safety switch is either worn or has a bad connection. You can short the terminals to test this, but the switch is there for a reason.

plasmeh

iTrader: (10)

What downside to bypassing this is there other than if you crank the engine with the pedal out the car will try and lurch forward? I'm the only one that ever sits behind the wheel of this car and have never made the mistake of trying to start the car with the pedal out.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

That is the downside. In older cars, they were not used. I personally have disabled mine, because I have yet to find the correct switch for my car. I did a T5 swap a few years ago, and my pedal assembly was missing that switch. I went to a parts store, and they gave me what they say is the correct switch. It isn't even close to right, so I live without it.

In the three or so years since then, I have oops-ed a few times. It certainly isn't doing the car any favors, but it isn't the end of the world, either. Under certain circumstances, it could pose a safety risk. I wouldn't condemn you either way.

skinny z

While I'd never advocate bypassing any safety mechanisms, the neutral safety switch in my own vehicle has been disabled for a while now as I sort through some shifting problems.
Certainly it's worth testing with a jumper across the terminals (if that's possible).
If that solves the problem then you can search for a replacement switch.

slowboy

I know this is an older thread, but the only one I've found so far about the neutral safety switch...will someone tell me how to get to it [where it's at] and how to disable it please...

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Disconnect your battery terminals, and clean them both very thoroughly with a wire brush. Make sure you clean the cable terminals and the lugs on the battery. Reinstall and make sure they are tight. Let us know if it makes a difference.

I've had "no start" conditions with my thirdgens many, many times and usually it was because of the negative battery terminal not making adequate contact. Low current would pass, so my dome light and radio would work fine, but when I turned the ignition... nothing.

NINÅ