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DFI and ECMDiscuss all aspects of DFI (Digital Fuel Injection), ECMs (Electronic Control Module), scanners, and diagnostic equipment. Fine tune your Third Gen computer system for top performance.
I have an engine build going on that involves the factory ECM and being dyno tested and checked for leaks on an engine dyno before installation. I have TunerPro RT, and all the tuning stuff needed to burn my own chips.... except the skill which has to be learned obviously. I am already starting the process of learning to do this but as you know this is a steep learning curve. Ive thought about ditching the ECM all together but I would rather keep the car going under its original electronics. I just dont see the benefit of another system at this point as the car will lose some functions like cruise and possibly some gauge lights.
Any suggestions besides a base tune file and multiple trips to the dyno? Thanks.
Re: Ideas for getting an engine tuned on the dyno.
Originally Posted by MrIROBZ
Any suggestions besides a base tune file and multiple trips to the dyno? Thanks.
Where is a base tune file coming from? And why multiple trips to the dyno? Since the engine is going on the dyno for a checkout, why not have WOT tuned then?
On a street driven car more tuning will be done for drive-ability then for WOT.
Re: Ideas for getting an engine tuned on the dyno.
You could try an EBL Flash-II System from Dynamic EFI to run your 1987 IROC-Z L98 TPI system. The guy who invented it is a very active member here @RBob and provides support here. His EBL system has a massive following here at TGO and there are many members here with experience installing and tuning it. This system should have no problems interfacing with your 1987 IROC-Z keeping all systems working as they should with just maybe slight repining of connectors.
You will be able to get rid of the troublesome and for your build probably restrictive Mass Airflow Sensor and MAF burn off relay, You can also ditch the troublesome 9th injector and Cold Start Injection system. Both of these system have parts availability problems. Either can't get the parts anymore or the aftermarket replacement aren't calibrated correctly.
The EBL system converts your engine from Mass Airflow to Speed Density.
For '85 through '89 Corvette, Camaro, and Firebird TPI setups**, changing from a MAF set up to the EBL Flash-II ECM is a snap
** MAF TPI Corvette and Camaro/Firebirds:
To change from a MAF TPI set up to an EBL Flash-II ECM requires a few changes. There are some ECM harness connector pins that need to be moved. A MAP sensor (1, 2, or 3-bar) is added using the existing MAF wires and plumbed to the plenum. The MAF is no longer used.
Then plug in the EBL Flash-II ECM and turn the key.
This is an easy and great upgrade to get away from the expensive MAF sensor and burn-off relays. And is even better when boost is involved. The Port Mod option for the EBL Flash-II ECM is required for this application.
Note: The OEM MAF ECM will not work with an EBL Flash-II system.
The ECM below is one that is compatible with the EBL Flash-II system and came in 89 to 92 TBI Camaros and Firebirds. Also Chevy Caprices. So it should be readily available to find one to use and for a replacement at a later date if the ECM fails.
1228746 '89-'92 Camaro, Firebird, Caprice
Cars that came with the above ECM had an Intake Air Temperature sensor and control over the Secondary Air Injection Reaction Diverter valve.
Some other ECMs that will work with the EBL Flash-II system came in vehicles that didn't have an IAT sensor or Secondary A.I.R. system (Smog Pump).
Emissions functions: EGR, CCP, and closed loop fueling.
His site doesn't mention the EBL Flash-II system having the ability to control the A.I.R diverter valve. Just Exhaust Gas Recirculation, Charcoal Canister Purge solenoid and closed loop fueling.
If you are going to run headers without A.I.R. and no cat or a cat without an A.I.R. port then it wouldn't matter if it can control the A.I.R. diverter valve or not.
You can ask @RBob if it can control the A.I.R system.
There are no chips to burn with his system and it can store 8 tunes.
Re: Ideas for getting an engine tuned on the dyno.
If you swap to this EBL Flash-II system which is Speed Density instead of Mass Airflow you will want to convert the Manifold Air Temperature sensor to an Intake Air Temperature sensor. MAT sensors get heat soaked by their closed brass design and being screwed directly into the aluminum TPI plenum. You can use the air box top assembly from a Speed Density V6 Camaro that has a provision for an IAT sensor (I forget what years.). You can use the duct from a 90 to 92 TPI IROC-Z or Z/28 to connect from the air box to the TPI throttle body. At first glance it will look factory stock. Someone in the know will notice the MAF is gone and the IAT sensor in the air box.
If you get a 90 to 92 TPI upper plenum it has mounting and vacuum port provisions for the Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor you will need for a Speed Density system. I would also recommend a 89+ throttle body and 89+ throttle cable. You will also need to tell AS&M to change your runners to 89 to 92 non CSI style. AS&M runners start off as 85 to 88 style with CSI provisions and they just block off the CSI ports for 89 to 92 non CSI style runners.
The 1989+ throttle body can be used on a 1988 and earlier upper plenum but an 1988 an earlier throttle body can't be use on a 1989+ upper plenum without machining a hole into the face of the plenum for the Idle Air Control system passages. The 1989+ throttle body and matching 1989+ throttle cable have improvements over the 1988 down style. 1988 and older is straight pull and 1989+ is a progressive cam throttle pull which is smoother off idle. It's less touchy and twitchy. At the power levels you are targeting for your build there is no need for a 52mm or 58mm aftermarket throttle body. The stock GM 48mm throttle body is fine but it is prone to wearing out the bore the throttle shaft rides in especially on the driver side causing air leaks that can affect the IAC system and cause binding not letting the throttle plates fully close at idle. This can be fixed by drilling and reaming the TB for AMPCO 18 Oilite bronze bushings for the throttle shaft to ride in.
Also the the fuel rail on a 1988 down car has provisions to supply fuel to the 9th Cold Start Injector. It can be blocked off or the fuel rail upgraded to the 1989+ style.
You're changing most of the factory TPI parts out for improved parts so a few more shouldn't be a big deal and converting from MAF to SD and getting rid of the 9th injector CSI system lets you get rid of two trouble prone systems.
Re: Ideas for getting an engine tuned on the dyno.
Originally Posted by RBob
Where is a base tune file coming from? And why multiple trips to the dyno? Since the engine is going on the dyno for a checkout, why not have WOT tuned then?
On a street driven car more tuning will be done for drive-ability then for WOT.
RBob.
The intial tune would come from Brian @ Tuned Performance. This would just be an initial tune to get it closer. I would have to datalog a pull and send him the data for corrections to be made and then back to the dyno once that was done for another pull. Seems like a lot of work and money just to get a tune in it. The dyno im using has Mega Squirt but this all goes away once its put back in the car and if Im not mistaken, the results will be a little different going from SEFI to BFEFI.
Re: Ideas for getting an engine tuned on the dyno.
Ive thought about going to EBL flash. I'm not too hot on the idea of just using a MAP sensor. I understand there are some benefits and the swap isnt difficult. I'm still open to the idea as it may be the best way. Burning chips and leaving the ECM on the floor to pull them out and again etc. isn't that great either.
Re: Ideas for getting an engine tuned on the dyno.
On another note, we are considering getting rid of the 9th injector and using a water or methanol kit there for the summer months in Texas. Its just an initial idea and I have not looked into this at length at all yet. I assume the distribution issues of where that 9th injector is should be minimal, so using meth there should work out fine.
Re: Ideas for getting an engine tuned on the dyno.
I believe the idea being wot tuning on a dyno is the easiest part of tuning, like finishing touches. most people never even end up doing a dyno pull. if you get the VE table dialed in on the street you can just adjust the PE airfuel target yourself quickly between dyno pulls. if you can get your af to say 12.0-11.5 with a few steet pulls before going on the dyno it will be, just make a base line and then lean it a half point and make a 2nd. see how the hp looks if it gains, do it again. it not, add a deg of timing if you don't see knock, look at hp. if it liked it, do it again, till you don't see a gain. then step back a deg and call it good.
I think you can do that kind of adjustments even without fully understanding it all yet.
Re: Ideas for getting an engine tuned on the dyno.
Originally Posted by ???
I believe the idea being wot tuning on a dyno is the easiest part of tuning, like finishing touches. most people never even end up doing a dyno pull. if you get the VE table dialed in on the street you can just adjust the PE airfuel target yourself quickly between dyno pulls. if you can get your af to say 12.0-11.5 with a few steet pulls before going on the dyno it will be, just make a base line and then lean it a half point and make a 2nd. see how the hp looks if it gains, do it again. it not, add a deg of timing if you don't see knock, look at hp. if it liked it, do it again, till you don't see a gain. then step back a deg and call it good.
I think you can do that kind of adjustments even without fully understanding it all yet.
The engine is being pulled out of the car and resealed and ran in on the engine dyno before going back in.
Re: Ideas for getting an engine tuned on the dyno.
Originally Posted by ???
them I'm confused about how you'd do multiple trips to the dyno?
I don't think I understand. are you trying to dyno tune for hp? or just start it and run it for a bit?
is your combo so far off that you think it wouldn't even be able to start and run without many adjustments of the tune?
what's the combo? cause most things will atleast run with some basic adjustments.
Same way we do every engine we build. We load it in the back of a truck and drive it to the dyno... unload it, run it and tune it in, and then bring it back. Yes, it should start and run, but I dont think itll be anywhere close without a PROM.
Re: Ideas for getting an engine tuned on the dyno.
Originally Posted by MrIROBZ
The intial tune would come from Brian @ Tuned Performance. This would just be an initial tune to get it closer. I would have to datalog a pull and send him the data for corrections to be made and then back to the dyno once that was done for another pull. Seems like a lot of work and money just to get a tune in it. The dyno im using has Mega Squirt but this all goes away once its put back in the car and if Im not mistaken, the results will be a little different going from SEFI to BFEFI.
unfortunately I’ve never dyno tuned. Not sure how they load the engine . If all PE work. I’ve only datalogged on the street and done wot with a wb. Can I put on D8 of the 165 ecm. Do they have a harness or are you going to use a painless 60102.
there is alot of tuning basic in the diy stickies. If just doing pe pretty straightforward to adjust. I’d definitely start with $6e mask.
Re: Ideas for getting an engine tuned on the dyno.
Originally Posted by Tuned Performance
unfortunately I’ve never dyno tuned. Not sure how they load the engine . If all PE work. I’ve only datalogged on the street and done wot with a wb. Can I put on D8 of the 165 ecm. Do they have a harness or are you going to use a painless 60102.
there is alot of tuning basic in the diy stickies. If just doing pe pretty straightforward to adjust. I’d definitely start with $6e mask.
Thats pretty much what I was going to do. Get a harness and just pull out the ecm and bring it all to the dyno. The operator there uses Mega Squirt and he could easily tune it on the dyno with that but then I would just have to redo the dyno portion on the street later. Not ideal. I am just going to attempt this on my own and see how far I get. The aftermarket options seem nice but lack a few features I want to keep.
Re: Ideas for getting an engine tuned on the dyno.
Hi Dudes,
I’ve read dozens and dozens of threads. I have a Frankenstein car. 1977 Triumph Spitfire with a 1989 Rs 2.8L and tranny swap. This car is fun, but I want more. I’ve reached out to numerous shops to help tune but nobody will touch it. I’d like to look at tuning since I think everything else has been done. Build sheet below.
How do I know if I have a stock MAF or a conversion?
Re: Ideas for getting an engine tuned on the dyno.
Look at the maf for any bosch part number. I would guess the ecm is service number 1227302 numbers. If that’s the ecm then the maf is from 86-89 2.8l v6 f body.
Re: Ideas for getting an engine tuned on the dyno.
Originally Posted by Tuned Performance
Look at the maf for any bosch part number. I would guess the ecm is service number 1227302 numbers. If that’s the ecm then the maf is from 86-89 2.8l v6 f body.
looks like I’m stock. The Bosch # is 25007557. I am VERY interested is this conversion. This update and a tune is all this car is missing (albeit boost maybe in the future). I’m SE MN, about 3.5 hours from Dynamics dealer in IA. Has anyone used them before? Anyone here from the MN area worked with a reputable Dyno place?
04-18-2024, 02:56 PM
