raptere

Hey All,

I know this topic seems to have been covered before, and I've read all of the related threads I could find. If I missed a good one please link me, but I have found nothing to solve my problem. I have been working with my tuner, and with the CS at Moates, and they have all been very attentive in trying to help me, but I'm thinking the more eyes that look at my situation the sooner I will figure out the solution...

Problem: I am unable to get my Moates Xtreme ALDL to Connected to ECU in order to datalog my current tune. I am using the Cable 1 also from Moates to connect to my OBD1 port. This is on a 1991 Z28 350 TPI.

Tests/Results:
- Connected using instructions from Moates. Completed all setup steps, confirming ports and other settings. Completed the Data Acquisition Cable Test. Getting a positive result weather the ALDL is connected to the running car or not.
- Continuity checked between all wires on Cable1. Continuity checked between Data cable in OBD1 port and connector on ECU. All checked out fine.
- Xtreme ALDL replaced, but with same results on replacement. Moates CS had me run a bunch of tests and they couldn't find anything else wrong...
- Both USB ports on Laptop tried, both reference the same port number, and have the same result.
- Waited 30 seconds for it to connect but never did. How long does connection usually take? Tried repeatedly trying to connect and disconnect in hopes it would work one time, read somewhere that this can help, but didn't in my case.
- Most recent drivers installed for the Xtreme ALDL, all seems well with it.
- Car currently runs no problem and with no codes using the GP1 and current preliminary tuned chip. Did try the paper clip and successfully get only the code 12 about no spark pulses because engine is not started, just ignition turned to on.
- Tried 10k ohms and open on the xtreme ALDL, with same result... Suspect for a '91 I should be using open.
- Various ADX and XDF files tried in different combinations all with the same result.

WHERE AM I GOING WRONG??? Any help, tips, or things to check would be greatly appreciated!!!!

Many Photos hopefully to help someone notice my problem...

Status while trying to connect using the button with the two opposing blue arrows.

Status before and after trying to connect.

TunerPro RT 5 - Preferences

TunerPro Data Acquisition Plug-In Configuration

Data Aquisition Cable test result, while the cable is disconnected from the running car, and while IT IS CONNECTED!

Windows Device Manager

Windows Device manager Detail 2


Windows Device manager Detail 5

Windows Device manager Detail - Advanced

Xtreme ALDL itself

Connection to OBD1 connector

ECU with Moates GP1 Kit and custom chip installed.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Maybe Rbob might know if there might be a way to test a8 at the ecm or pin m of the aldl a voltage check for data.

raptere

I did confirm continuity between those two connectors. If there is a way to check if data is actually coming thru it, I'd be glad to try it...

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

I think there might be voltage when a to b is jumped but I don’t know how much and if it varies .

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Have you tried a different ADX? I'm not sure that I've had much luck with the ADX you're using there?

Can you connect if you put the OEM MEMCAL back in place?

Also try setting com port to port 1, that's worked for me a few times when I had connectivity issues.

84Elky

See below to see if that helps.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Hardware detection is only for emulation devices, not for datalogging devices.

raptere

Bummer... I was really hoping 84Elky had figured it out...

I believe I have finished testing everyone's ideas and have results to share:
- I tried changing the com port to 1 and rebooted the computer, then updated the detail in TunerPro. This made no difference.
- I tried removing my GP1 with new chip and just reinstalling my factory memcal by itself. It made no difference so I put the GP1 and new chip back in.
- I tried connecting an analog volt meter between OBD1 pins M (Serial Data) and A (Ground) I was surprised to see a very smooth constant 12V. It came on with the ignition in the on position, and when I started the car, the needle never even moved the slightest amount, at least not that I could see. Was I supposed to be jumping the pins A and B also? Its strange, it almost looks too steady to be battery voltage, but I guess it could be. I do have two decent sized capacitors connected to my sound system...
- I have tried all of the following ADX files, none allow me to connect.


What else are we missing here???

Thanks for everyone's help! Keep the ideas coming!
-Eli

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Double check which ALDL connector pins you are measuring. It should be 5V, not 12V. A & M are above and below each other on one end of the connector.

RBob.

raptere

Yes the two right most pins. I can try a digital volt meter tonight and see if I get any different reading.

I thought though with an analog one, you should see the needle dancing around if data was being sent, my needle was perfectly stationary... Also, did I need to do anything to initiate the data flow? Jump a and b while the vm is connected to the data and ground pins, or something?

This is the Pinout I've been referencing. It is correct, right?

84Elky

Right. Thanks for correction. Was thinking APU1.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

With the '90 - '92 f-body TPI MEMCALs, the only way to get data is to send a data packet request to the ECM. This needs to be done via the ALDL serial connection.

If you can get your hands on a scan tool for your car, it would be helpful to see if it connects.

Or, try your set up on a '90 - '92 f-body that you know the ALDL works.

RBob.

raptere

Hmmm... I'm not sure of anyone I know that has an OBD 1 Scan tool, unless I can go to a place like Advance Autoparts. Do they still have equipment for OBD1?

I really do not know anyone in my area, NW Chicago suburbs with a 90-92 Camaro TPI... So I'm not sure how I would test my setup on another car, unless someone in the area wants to volunteer...

Is there no way to force my computer/equipment to send the data packet request to the ECM? I assume that is what is supposed to be happening when I click the connect button with the two opposing blue arrows, right? Should I be trying a different software package all together? I've heard people talk about TunerCat... Is that one free to try? Worth trying? Maybe a different one you guys would suggest over it?

MikeT 88IROC350

FYI, i have had some luck using the $8D_90-91_Corvette.adx, to connect to my 90 Y-body L98 car. Just try flipping the 10k switch back and forth. Make sure you start the TP-RT software with the cable and everything connected. Are you running the laptop off battery, or connected to some power source? Could have a ground loop.

raptere

I'll have to try that adx again... I'll also try hooking the power supply up to the laptop if that helps...I thought for a 1991 I shouldn't have to flip the 10k switch? When and how should I try it?

I did find my local Orileys has an old 1 scanner I'm going to go try it out now, any tips on what to try. I figure I'll see if I can view live data...

MikeT 88IROC350

The 10k switch, puts in a 10k ohm resistor, to initiate datalogging. Try flipping, BEFORE you connect, and if it does not, just go back and forth with it. As far as power supply, i meant to run off the laptop battery, NOT connecting to some other power source, which could create ground loops.

raptere

Well, I tried all the above... no luck. I did recheck the voltage on terminal M and it is 5v not 12, I must have been reading the wrong scale on my vm... Oriley hat the tool, and the adapter, but was missing a special cable you need to connect the two, luckily the manager said if he couldn't find the cable by tomorrow, he would order a new one and call me when it's in.

The fact that my data terminal is reading the needed 5v, and I get the expected code 12 with the a-b jumped is making me think the issue is something on my laptop... I'm going to try loading everything onto my work laptop, and see if the results are any different...

raptere

Well, that was a waste of time, just finished reinstalling all the software on my work laptop, then retesting everything and it's all exactly the same... I'm starting to think it must be something about the procedure I'm doing, or the settings or installation process I'm using on my pc...

Also, just confirmed I do get the same 5v at the other end of my cable1, on I think it's pin 3. And, have continuity between the pin one and a random body ground, as I should.

Any other ideas???

raptere

Time for an update...

I was able to get to Orileys last night and try using their scanner. We hooked it up to the OBD1 port, and started entering requested data. Year = 1991, 8th digit of vin = 8, then it asked for the 4th digit of the vin which for Camaros should be F. This was not an option, so we selected other. It tried for a few seconds to connect, then gave an error saying it was unable to connect to the computer... We proceeded to try all kinds of combinations of years and 8th digit codes, and 4th digit codes, all with the same results...

It is seeming to me, that the ECU is just not sending any data to the M pin. The only other thing I can think at this point is trying a new ECU. Do you all agree? If that is the next step, am I OK just getting what I can get easily and quickly, and that if it doesn't fix the problem, I can easily return it in person, without having to worry about shipping? It looks like my options are Cardone (most readily available, tomorrow), BSE Origonal, MasterPro, or Napa.

I'm scratching my head a little bit, because the ECU itself has the words "top back" written on it in sharpie. That was not my doing, so it looks like someone has been in there before, which is strange, because when I bought the car back in 2003 or so, I was under the impression the car was completely stock...

*Prayers going out to anyone effected by Hurricane IDA...

raptere

I actually ended up ordering one of the Cardone ECU's from Orileys, and its ready to pick up tonight, so I'll give that a try. I'll have to make sure of the return policy first...

I also need to go and double check all my fuses. Everything seems to be working, but that should have been the first thing I checked, but I keep forgetting... Doubt I'll find anything...

raptere

Well... I checked all the fuses, they're all fine..

I guess when you've checked everything else, all that's left is the ECU... I just swapped the ecu with the Cardone one I picked up today, and like flipping a switch, EVERYTHING NOW WORKS! I did a bunch of datalogs tonight and they all seemed to go perfectly. I also tried a few different combinations of XDF and ADX files, and they all worked now.

Only remaining question is, am I ok with the Cardone ECU I got, or should I try and get an actual GM one? Different one?

WesPoirier

Hello. I am a manufacturing engineer with for Vitesco Technologies, formerly Continental Automotive Systems. We build ECU/TCUs in Seguin, Texas, for Ford, GM, Chrysler, Cummins, Caterpillar, John Deere, Mercury Marine, and many others. Lines run 24/7. Thousands of units per day. My recommendation is to buy remanufactured. The quality of the unit itself relies primarily on the PCB's components. Neither the high-volume supplier or remanufacturer control component quality. When one of the hundreds of components fails, the unit fails. New units should last longer, but you could buy a new unit that lasts 100k mi or a reman unit that lasts 200k mi more than what it had when you receive it. (Conditions of the vehicle charging, wiring, sensors, and actuators (includes injectors) can also cause early death of an ECU.)

Additional points:

Reman companies (Cardone, Allcomputerresources, etc) refurbish by cleaning, testing, replacing components as-needed (this is rare, as most units are sealed with RTV), re-flash/burn with latest vehicle software/tune (often changing vehicle application for what is ordered by customer), final test, label, ship. This is not difficult. High-volume suppliers also do reman until the business is sold to aftermarket "refurbish specialists" like Cardone. What makes them specialists is that they are set up for it. They have less overhead. High-volume suppliers are often losing money in reman operations.

New service ECU production for 82-92 vehicles volume is so low there might be just one production line in the world building them. Anyone selling new units (GM, etc) would buy from that line (from high-volume supplier Delphi, Denso, Conti, etc.). The process technologies used to assemble new service units haven't improved over time. Its the opposite: When volumes drop, manufacturers replace aging, maintenance-intensive specialized automation with cheap, flexible manual operations to make room for new projects. If there is no production currently, they are NOS. In any case, they are usually more expensive.