JJ63

iTrader: (1)

I just hooked up Moates sofware and I'm seeing blm numbers around 155. I'm I running way too lean? The engine sounds pretty good. The only problem is it dies at over 5000rpm though. There is no spark retard when this happens. Could I be damaging the engine running it this way?

I'm using a Performance Resource chip for a 305. I had a 350tpi engine put in recently and I'm trying to tune it. It has a 210/215 110lsa roller cam, using 24lb accel injectors at 45psi. I would have thought I'd be running rich with this setup. All emmisions have been removed. An egr(it isn't connected) trouble code is also showing.

Thanks,

Grim Reaper

Problem #1: With SD the eprom MUST know the size of the engine.
Problem #2: SD must know the size of injectors you are running.
Problem #3: SD must have VE tables that match the volumetric efficiencies of the engine. Your cam has changed the VE.

You need a new eprom. If you are looking for a "plug n' play" solution, contact Performance Resources or Ed Wright (Fastchips). Just be aware that no matter WHO burns the eprom for you, unless they can work with the car "hands on", the eprom will never be optimal. You MAY (or may not) get an eprom that runs reasonably okay, but optimal - forget it.

Your best bet is to learn how to burn your own eprom. We'll be more than happy to tell you the various equipment you need, help get you through your "first burn", and share with you "tuning techniques" that many of us have learned. If you have never tuned an engine (and I don't mean a "tune up", I mean alter the mixture/spark advance like on a carb or something), then this will be the area that requires the most "learning, trying and testing". But all of us were there (learning who to tune) at one time or another - we weren't born this way (except maybe Bruce).

The best way to learn "tuning" is to do a search on the DIY Prom Board on a key word like "tune" or "tuning". Also, "VE", "Spark Advance", "Fuel" and other words dealing with "tuning" and you will find that there is a TON of material that has been discussed on these subjects over the last few years. Many people the BEST way to learn eprom burning (besides reading the link I am about to post) is also to read old posts. Just for giggles, do a search on "Highway Mode" or "Octane Retard". We have made plenty of posts on those subjects and there is a lot of material that I could never "reproduce" without spending a week of typing.

First, go here ---> https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/promintro.shtml

Grim Reaper

PS: If someone offers to burn you a new eprom, RUN AWAY. Remember the old saying "you get what you pay for". We've had some bad experiences on this board with people offering to burn an eprom "cheap". Then a few months later, the "purchaser" made a nasty post about how the "eprom writer" screwed him.

The reason we don't do "referrals" or "burn eproms for newbies", is WE know that unless WE have hands-on access to your car, there is NO WAY WE can burn you an optimal eprom. So how can anyone else?

Many of the guys on this Board that are STRONG ADVOCATES of burning your own eprom asked about "getting an eprom burnt for them without having to get into eprom burning". The guys that took my advice and got into it are happy they did. They now know EXACTLY what I am mentioning.

As for the few that decided to buy an eprom, quite a few of them came back to the board and eventually got the equipment too because they found out (after spending more money) that they could not get a good eprom - even after shelling out BIG BUCKS. They always say "I wish I had listened to you guys in the first place".

The others that live in "denial" with their "purchased custom eprom" are the ones that end up posting on the Tech Board wondering "Why am I not getting as much performance as others that have the same mods".

I hope you give "burning your own eprom" serious consideration. I will say this, it will be a LOT easier to sell your used eprom burning equipment, than your "used eprom". People are ALWAYS looking for the equipment on this board. And due to the "unique nature" of eprom burning equipment, we do allow people to make posts that wish to sell their "useless eprom burning equipment".

JJ63

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the info. I'm just worried my engine is gonna blow up with the numbers I'm seeing. I'll probabbly start burning this spring.

Grim Reaper

Those are not good numbers. I would rather be overly rich than overly lean.

formula5

You will damage your engine running that lean.I would suggest bumping your fuel pressure up a bit to help.You'll still have the potential engine damage so dont think that will fix your problem.The cost of the prom burning equipment is alot cheaper than a custom chip.My opinion of mail order (custom)chips is they are junk.As stated only intense driving sessions can yield a correct prom calibration.It's easyer than it sounds,buy the equipment and we'll walk you through every step .

formula5

Another point,I have a 406/TPI and I gained about 1second in the 1/4 mile with a self burned prom,25 mpg too.

doc

JJ63,

As Glenn recommends, you should seriously think about burning your own chips. The cost of doing this is less then one custom chip and you could reburn the same chip many times over.

Anyway, I am a little experinced at burning my own chips. If you want since you are in Cleveland, we can get together and I can show you first hand how it is done and this eqiupment that you will need. I can not burn a chip for you because you have a speed density car, my car is a MAF car.

Read Traxion's article first and then maybe we can get together.

JJ63

iTrader: (1)

I ordered a pocket programmer yesterday. Then I'll have to wait until Craig Moates makes that memcal adapter.

You guys got me spooked about my lean condition. Hopefully considering I have a 305 chip/ 350 engine combo, I'm just getting a false reading.

Thanks for all the help, Im sure I'll asking more questions later.

Grim Reaper

You do know that you can EASILY make an adapter to program directly from the PP to the Memcal? But if Craig is going to make one for you, go for it.

formula5

"You do know that you can EASILY make an adapter to program directly from the PP to the Memcal?"What the hay does that mean?Please tell

JJ63

iTrader: (1)

"You do know that you can EASILY make an adapter to program directly from the PP to the Memcal?"

I assume your talking about removing my current chip from the memcal and installing a ZIF socket. I've never soldered in my life so I'm not sure I could get it right. I want to use flash eproms so I'll have to use the adapter described in Traxions new idea post.

formula5

Sounds like a direct link from the prom to printer port to me,what do ya say glenn?

Grim Reaper

No, I am talking about get a 34 pin "header" as mentioned in Tim's Prom Burning Introduction and modifying it so you can use it to plug the first 28 pins of the memcal (which control the eprom) and then you plug the Memcal into the Programmer directly.

Re-read Tim's Prom Burning Introduction - it's all covered there and Tim even provides a Part Number to Digikey so you can order it. It costs around $5.00 and takes about 5 minutes with a Dremel to modify (cut the tabs and 6 of the pins off as you only need the first 28).

JJ63

iTrader: (1)

I lucked out yesterday. I have been using a Performance Resource chip for the past 10 years. I opened it up and the chip just unplugs! All I need now are some flash proms and I'm in business. Finding a way to r&r the proms was my biggest concern.

I read the PR chip expecting major changes over stock. Their chip just added more spark at higher rpm and lowered the fan temperature. Kinda dissapointing to find out how little was done for the money I spent.

86TpiTransAm

I've heard of people literally melting rods from running their engines too lean.


Ahhh, yet another advantage of MAF. SD has to know every little detail or it won't like it at all. With my MAF '86 TA I just switched to a 355 engine with a larger cam and 24# injectors. I'm still using my stock 305 chip and with my fuel pressure set all the way down at 36psi I'm still running a little rich. Despite that fact, I'm still getting 19mpg on the highway. I plan to start burning my own chips in the very near future and right now I don't have that much time and I'm still researching but I'm tired of running rich and replacing my spark plugs more often than I should so I'm purchasing a Stage 2 Ed Wright fastchip to "help out" until I can purchase the prom burning equipment.

Definitely do your own prom burning.

V8Astro Captain

iTrader: (1)

Word

Grim Reaper

That's no advantage. Right now you are running rich because your 305 eprom is expecting 19#, not 24#s. Probably to compensate for when you "max the MAF".

Frankly, when you get into eprom burning, there is verly little advantage to MAF. SD's VE tables take a little extra work, but you ultimately end up with a much better fuel table. For "Pump Shot" I much prefer how it is handled in SD. Also, the MAP Sensor makes "elevation corrections" for Spark Advance easier. This is what I have found from working on both.

I personally find working the spark tables (MAF/SD) yields the most performance gains and is generally where people spend most of there tuning efforts (once you get the fuel mixture reasonably close to 128/128)