galletti

Hello all! I have an 88 TPI 305 A4 IROC Convertible with 2.73 gears. I'm switching to MAP and have a couple of questions. I'm clear on most of the physical/mechanical/wiring changes that I need to do. I found a ton of bin codes that are possible starting points, all LB9 Automatic:
1990
ANHY,
ATNY,
ANJB,
AWLT,
AXYD
1991,1992
ASYT,
AUTR
ARZC,
AWFU,
AXXB
ARZU,
AWFY,
AXXF
The difference between the 1991, 1992 variations have, according to this web site, http://www.3rdgenformula.com/91/promcodes.htm, only to do with tire size and Federal Emissions. My question is, which one to start with.
Second, this chip is going on a G3 adapter and I was wondering which MEMCAL will work better on the "piggyback" position. I have available a modified AUJP (originally from a V6) and the stock AKFM. I believe this is only for limp home mode functions so I need advice.
Third, I know I have to modify the bin I use to start by turning off VATS and modifying VSS. I'll use these two threads for VSS pointers:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...-tunerpro.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...ned-165-a.html
I believe they have most of the info I'll need for that. The question is:
What else, if anything, do I need to modify on my starter VIN to make it work with the MAP? Thank you all.

utilityguy2

iTrader: (1)

With the g3 or any adapter the only thing you need the memcal for is the cylinder select that tells the ECM it is for a V8. You can use anything that does that, so either of yours will work if the V6 memcal has the cyl sel jumper installed. The knock sensor system is different between the two types MAF and SD. Your old MAF memcal does not have the knock filter on board and the V6 memcal will have the wrong one so all knock programming needs to be disabled in programming.. You possibly can use the MAF knock system but don't know how that would be addressed in programming. Best to just disable it I think.
I'd use the AXXF bin as it is the latest so presumably it has all the fixes incorporated.
Depending on the equipment removed, you may want to ddisable AIR, CCP and EGR You are in a hot climate I think so I would change fans on to 90.5c and off to 87.7c and install a 180f thermostat. Don't be temped to go with a 160f thermostat as these motors need to run hotter.

galletti

OK. So I started with an AXXF and made the following changes, following the modified AUJP I got from you. I believe I'm set with Disabled AIR, canister, VATS, lower fan temps and VSS. Please confirm:
Edit Log for AXXF 8D Modded.bin created by TunerPro.
**************************************************************************
03/06/2012 22:22:43 Scalar: AIR Enable Min. Temp. changed from 14.75 Deg. C (0x49) to 65.00 Deg. C (0x8C).
03/06/2012 22:24:38 Scalar: AIR Rich/Lean Reduction Volts changed from 101.77 mVolts (0x17) to 185.84 mVolts (0x2A).
03/06/2012 22:26:41 Scalar: Canister Purge Disable MAP changed from 0.00 kPa (0x00) to 86.00 kPa (0x56).
03/06/2012 22:27:37 Scalar: Canister Purge Disable TPS changed from 1.95 % TPS (0x05) to 27.73 % TPS (0x47).
03/06/2012 22:37:48 Scalar: Canister Purge Force BLM Idle Cell Max. Duty Cycle changed from 0.00 % Duty Cycle (0x00) to 12.50 % Duty Cycle (0x20).
03/06/2012 22:37:56 Scalar: Canister Purge Force BLM Idle Cell Min. Duty Cycle changed from 19.53 % Duty Cycle (0x32) to 83.98 % Duty Cycle (0xD7).
03/06/2012 22:38:03 Scalar: Canister Purge Enable Vehicle Speed changed from 1.88 MPH (0x06) to 28.13 MPH (0x5A).
03/06/2012 22:38:10 Scalar: Canister Purge Enable TPS changed from 3.13 % TPS (0x08) to 33.59 % TPS (0x56).
03/06/2012 22:38:21 Scalar: Canister Purge Enable Min. Temp. changed from 25.25 Deg. C (0x57) to 70.25 Deg. C (0x93).
03/06/2012 22:38:36 Scalar: Canister Purge Enable MAP changed from 0.00 kPa (0x00) to 70.00 kPa (0x46).
03/06/2012 22:38:48 Scalar: Canister Purge Duty Cycle Min. TPS changed from 50.00 % TPS (0x80) to 15.63 % TPS (0x28).
03/06/2012 22:38:54 Scalar: Canister Purge Disable Vehicle Speed changed from 0.94 MPH (0x03) to 22.19 MPH (0x47).
03/06/2012 22:46:47 Scalar: Fan 1 Delayed Run Time After Off changed from 100.00 Sec. (0x64) to 138.00 Sec. (0x8A).
03/06/2012 22:47:22 Scalar: Fan 1 Disable Vehicle Speed changed from 35.00 MPH (0x23) to 254.00 MPH (0xFE).
03/06/2012 22:47:46 Scalar: Fan 1 Disable Temp. changed from 104.75 Deg. C (0xC1) to 59.75 Deg. C (0x85).
03/06/2012 22:49:23 Scalar: Fan 1 Enable Temp. changed from 107.75 Deg. C (0xC5) to 28.25 Deg. C (0x5B).
03/06/2012 22:49:45 Scalar: Fan 2 Delayed Run Time After Off changed from 0.00 Sec. (0x00) to 32.00 Sec. (0x20).
03/06/2012 22:50:14 Scalar: Fan 2 Disable Vehicle Speed High A/C Pres changed from 255.00 MPH (0xFF) to 9.00 MPH (0x09).
03/06/2012 22:50:45 Scalar: Fan 2 Disable Temp. changed from 151.25 Deg. C (0xFF) to 11.75 Deg. C (0x45).
03/06/2012 22:51:06 Scalar: Fan 2 Disable Vehicle Speed changed from 255.00 MPH (0xFF) to 42.00 MPH (0x2A).
03/06/2012 22:52:39 Scalar: Fan 2 Enable Temp. changed from 151.25 Deg. C (0xFF) to 23.75 Deg. C (0x55).
03/06/2012 23:03:55 Flag: Switch 16 (VATS TCC-R 4th-NO VATS OLP) - Bit 4 - VATS changed from Set to Not Set..
03/06/2012 23:04:38 Flag: Switch 16 (VATS TCC-R 4th-NO VATS OLP) - Bit 3 - B3 changed from Not Set to Set..
03/06/2012 23:05:21 Flag: Switch 16 (VATS TCC-R 4th-NO VATS OLP) - Bit 2 - 4thNO changed from Set to Not Set..
03/06/2012 23:06:32 Flag: Switch 16 (VATS TCC-R 4th-NO VATS OLP) - Bit 1 - B1 changed from Not Set to Set..
03/06/2012 23:15:19 Flag: Switch 16 (VATS TCC-R 4th-NO VATS OLP) - Bit 1 - B1 changed from Set to Not Set..
03/06/2012 23:16:58 Flag: Switch 18 (VSS M/AT U-TCC I-MAT VSS CCPE) - Bit 7 - CCPE changed from Set to Not Set..
03/06/2012 23:17:12 Flag: Switch 18 (VSS M/AT U-TCC I-MAT VSS CCPE) - Bit 6 - VSS changed from Set to Not Set..
03/06/2012 23:17:43 Flag: Switch 18 (VSS M/AT U-TCC I-MAT VSS CCPE) - Bit 4 - IMAT changed from Set to Not Set..
03/06/2012 23:17:48 Flag: Switch 18 (VSS M/AT U-TCC I-MAT VSS CCPE) - Bit 3 - UTCC changed from Set to Not Set..

utilityguy2

iTrader: (1)

I don't quite understand what you are trying to do. It appears you are trying to run your fans all the time? And to disable emmissions, just set enable min temp to highest level. Don't need to change any other items. Appears some of your min enables only set up a little so can still run and some of your settings were lowered? Why? And are you doing away with the Vehicle speed sensor? And don't under stand the VATS setting.You made lots of changes you don't need to. It may work that way but why make it hard on yourself. I see you are using the 8D XDF. Try the XDF and ADX that I use. try them and you'll see the difference right away.
The S_AUJP XDF file will be easier as everything is defined and in common language. The ADX just gives you a nice dash and better items list.

8D_SAUJP_V4a.zip

galletti

I don't quite understand it either I really don't know what I'm doing yet but...Here it goes again. Thanks for sticking with me on this. I started again from scratch with the AXXF not using AUJP because my car is a 305. This time I made less changes. I think I did VATS and AIR disable well. I'm pretty sure I did the fan activate/deactivate temperatures ok. Not sure if I did enough or too much on the canister. I'll research VSS more for the changes I need. Here's the log file:
Edit Log for AXXF 8D Modded v002.bin created by TunerPro.
**************************************************************************
03/07/2012 17:11:06 Scalar: AIR Enable Min. Temp. changed from 14.75 Deg. C (0x49) to 151.25 Deg. C (0xFF).
03/07/2012 17:13:56 Scalar: Fan 1 Enable Temp. changed from 107.75 Deg. C (0xC5) to 90.50 Deg. C (0xAE).
03/07/2012 17:14:17 Scalar: Fan 1 Disable Temp. changed from 104.75 Deg. C (0xC1) to 87.50 Deg. C (0xAA).
03/07/2012 17:15:25 Scalar: Fan 1 Disable Temp. changed from 87.50 Deg. C (0xAA) to 87.50 Deg. C (0xAA).
03/07/2012 17:16:14 Scalar: Fan 2 Disable Temp. changed from 151.25 Deg. C (0xFF) to 87.50 Deg. C (0xAA).
03/07/2012 17:16:22 Scalar: Fan 2 Enable Temp. changed from 151.25 Deg. C (0xFF) to 90.50 Deg. C (0xAE).
03/07/2012 17:20:28 Scalar: Canister Purge Disable TPS changed from 1.95 % TPS (0x05) to 0.00 % TPS (0x00).
03/07/2012 17:20:34 Scalar: Canister Purge Disable Vehicle Speed changed from 0.94 MPH (0x03) to 0.00 MPH (0x00).
03/07/2012 17:20:43 Scalar: Canister Purge Enable MAP changed from 0.00 kPa (0x00) to 255.00 kPa (0xFF).
03/07/2012 17:20:57 Scalar: Canister Purge Enable Min. Temp. changed from 25.25 Deg. C (0x57) to 151.25 Deg. C (0xFF).
03/07/2012 17:23:39 Flag: Switch 16 (VATS TCC-R 4th-NO VATS OLP) - Bit 4 - VATS changed from Set to Not Set..

utilityguy2

iTrader: (1)

Leave the bin as AXXF but use the S_AUP XFX and ADX that I sent in the zipped file. Use it for ALL 8D bin files. It is much better than th 8D XDF you are using. Many bin families have extended XDF files that are better than the basic XDF. don't be afraid to use them as it make your job easier. If that is still confusing let me know.

utilityguy2

iTrader: (1)

I use the S_AUJP for all 305 and 350 V8 SD cars. Don't let the name get you. I could have changed it to 8D but I didn't so there would be no confusion of where it came from and to give credit to John Pell who created it just to make it easier for us.

galletti

Just took a look at it. It really does make a lot of things easier. I don't have time to dive into it right now but from what I saw, I think I got what I wanted to do. Haven't confirmed canister function and I'll get into VSS later but I'm pretty sure the changes I posted above in v002 should get the job done. My MAF to MAP change will be in a couple of weeks. I'll let you know how/if it runs. Thanks again.

utilityguy2

iTrader: (1)

Good Luck!

galletti

Hi utilityguy2! First off, I want to thank you for all the help you gave me way back when I was planning this. I finally got around to doing this project and the physical/mechanical was a breeze. Now I'm getting my prom ready using the files you sent. I just want to confirm for VSS. I only saw Option Word 3 - Bit 6 - VSS Magnetic. I went in there, unchecked the set box and saved. Is that all I need to do to get the VSS to work correctly with my setup?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Besides the programing change to optical input the optical input will go to c6 of your 730 ecm.

utilityguy2

iTrader: (1)

It's my understanding that you have a 88 Iroc that you are simply switching to MAP SD. If so, then recheck the magnetic in programming. The SD ECM needs a 4000 pulse VSS to be correct. I think that the early Camaro's used a mechanical speedo and a DRAC to convert to 2000 ppm for the ECM. But you need 4000 so I think the easiest way would be to change the VSS pulse per mile in programming to 2000 which should work. It's a scalar. (VSS, vehicle speed sensor pulses) Make sure you are using the 8D_SAUJP_V4a.XDF file if you don't see it.

You can also use a Dakota Digital SGI-5 part number 4PAC for $82 to convert the 2000 ppm signal from the DRAC. You should not then need to do anything with programming.

galletti

Ok. Thank you both. I'll try your suggestions and try to fire up tomorrow.

galletti

Ok fellas. So I finally got a chance to attempt fire up today. No luck though. It starts and stalls right away. I thought it might be an error in my custom chip so I attempted start up with just the AXXF memcal directly on the 730 board instead of piggy backed onto my G3 adapter with the same results. I got an error 46 for VATS which is not surprising since I'm using a VATS ECM and memcal on a non VATS car (88 IROC TPI 305). So I put the G3 with custom chip without the AXXF memcal on the piggy back with the same results. Only my code readers yields no codes (not even the 12). Any thoughts?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Sounds like the offset when the .bin was burned to the eeprom was incorrect. Or the back selector is set wrong or eeprom installed away from the notch.

galletti

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm using a 29c256 chip to burn a 32 k file so I don't think there's an offset. Both jumpers on the G3 are set to the 29C256 position. I have tried the EEPROM installed in all four possible positions (notch away from ZIF handle next to and away from ZIF handle and notch close to ZIF handle next to and away from ZIF handle) with the same results. Only difference was that on one position the fuel pump wouldn't shut off when on the ignition on position. Forgot to check for codes after each one. I have different EEPROMs I can try.

EDIT: Went back to moates.net and checked the support docs and saw the correct installation position for everything. Did that, re-tried, same results. Got a 12 from the CEL.
EDIT 2: I have an APU1 so, if guided, I could do some emulation and see if I can't get it running that way.

galletti

So, by using a 512 chip, I was able to stack AXXF and AXXF with VATS disabled. I put the chip in my G3 adapter with remote and attempted start up on 0. Started and stalled and gave me a 46. I then set to 1, reset ECM by disconnecting battery for a few minutes and retried. This time, same thing happened but no code. This tells me my chips are working!!! But, sadly, it also says there is something else that's wrong with my car and much more difficult to diagnose since I just switched over to MAP. I guess I'll go to my shop manual and start troubleshooting.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Shouldn't/can't do that. Need the stock MEMCAL on the G3 header to set the cylinder select.

RBob.

galletti

Hi RBob! Thanks for chiming in. I no longer think this is related to my bins or custom chip setup. I have posted a new thread to help troubleshooting my MAF to MAP conversion and lack of start. I actually have an 88 shop manual but that troubleshooting is different because of the switch to SD. I sent for a 90 shop manual but, while it arrives, is there any place online that the trouble shooting guide might be posted?

galletti

I thought I was done with this thread, but I have a VSS issue. I tried setting the pulses to 2k but the lowest it will got is 3614.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Make this change:

Flag: Switch 18 (VSS M/AT U-TCC I-MAT VSS CCPE) - Bit 6 - VSS changed from Set to Not Set

Put the VSS wire (BRN) to ECM pin C6.

Done.

The VSS PPM value in the BIN is only used when a mag VSS is in place.

RBob.

galletti

Sorry for the dealy in response. I appreciate your input RBob. For some reason, I was under the impression I did have a mag VSS. I understand they changed in 88 or 89 so I was confused. Thanks.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

It is my understanding that the Camaro's used a magnetic VSS starting in '90. While the Firebird's got them in '88 (or so). Either way, the stock '85 - '89 TPI ECM received a 2K PPM optical VSS signal.

This was either via the optical pickup on the speedometer head, or via the 4 out buffer box when a mag VSS was used.

RBob.