Grim Reaper

In recognition of the horrific tragedy today, Dirk is allowing non-tech posts on the subject.

I don't think words can describe today, but I am sure some of you can.

If you feel you want to say something about it, or just want to express your condolensces, please feel free to make a reply to this post. It will not be locked or deleted.

As a non-American, please accept my deepest regrets and sorrow in this unprovoked act of war on the US.

leirch

Glenn,
Thanks for everything and the post. I was sitting in class today about 60miles away and heard from a teacher that rushed into the classroom. We still had about 3 hours of class.. Lets just say that down in Dayton there was a lockdown on everything. I am at work now and cannot even imagine what the victims and families are going through..
I and everybody here at work are thinking of them...

Brendan

[This message has been edited by leirch (edited September 11, 2001).]

Grim Reaper

Right now, Canada has done the unprecident action of doing everything requested by a foreign government. The borders are completely sealed between Canada and the US, and Canada has also suspended all airport travel to make it as difficult as possible for people to move around.

There is no treaty between our governments in this type of co-operation, but I fully agree with the action.

Being a Government employee, I have NEVER seen it as quite or somber as today. Even our flags are at half-mast.

The only thing I want to know is how in the hell did 4 (or is it 5 now) planes get hijacked basically at the same time? I cannot even imagine the horror those poor passengers in those planes felt as they saw themselves crashing to the ground and the by-standers on the ground.

Of all the world events that I have ever seen, this is the only one that has made me cry.

Bobalos

Glenn,

even though we are in different countries, I still think of you guys up there as our brothers & I feel that we would likely do the same for you (@ least I would hope so).


THANK YOU.
BW

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Bobalos
www.r71camaro.homestead.com
r71chevy@earthlink.net
<><

Scott 88 GTA

This is the worst terrorist strike that I have ever heard of. I can't imagine what the families of all those people are going through right now. My prayers go out to them, and I pray that G O D will give wisdom to President Bush for the upcoming decisions that he will face.

Edit: Why can we not say *** (G O D) on here without it being in asteriks?

[This message has been edited by Scott 88 GTA (edited September 11, 2001).]

Grim Reaper

I can only wonder where the 4th plane that crashed in a wooded area of Pittsburg was headed. I am also curious about the lack of information about the 5th plane that supposedly hit Camp David.

I am glad to hear that Mexico has also agreed to closing its border to stop the possibility of any people involved that may be in the US can't get out.

The US Air Force is also forcing a some planes to land in Canada; two Korean airliners in Whitehorse, Yukon and a Chinese plane to Vancouver, BC. Right now, the RCMP aren't giving much other than "an on-going" investigation.

Grim Reaper

Correction, I just heard that the 4th plane was the one that is suspected of being intended to hit Camp David. They are unsure if a 5th plane is involved.

branz28

I just was worried about them comeing near St. Louis. We have the Boeing plant, national guard planes, and a couple of bases close by includeing Scott Air force base.

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Camaro_hunter_d

Well being a former Navy F/A-18 repair personel (AD), We have had this coming for a while. I know this sounds harsh but look at the fact here.

1. After numerous pervious attacks(small ones but attacks non the less) I:E; oky city, Olympics ect ect. the country has done nothing to get tighter security.

2. These planes were Hijacked on US soil And US air space. After numerous attempts to raise the pilots with no answer and the transponder signal being turned off the ground controllers should have known something was seriously up and informed the Military to have action taken. The Pilots should have done something(anything) to force the plane down(like the one outta pittsburg) to prevent the devastation that hit the WTC towers.

America has had the attitude that we are not a logical target for terrorism and believed that "it's not our problem". Well PEOPLE WE ARE PART OF THE INTERNATIONAL WORLD. WE NEED TO BE THINKING OF THIS ALL THE TIME NO MATTER THE SITUATION. Just beacsue we are not in the middle east does not mean we are not a logical target for attack.

Do I feel bad about this happening? YES I DO, but at the same time I also realize that the Government has done very little to prevent this from happening. Look at today and you will realize that.

ws6transam

Due to these developments I am stranded in Orange County, California. Could someone (Specifically Tom Keliher!!!) give me a call? I want to hang out since it looks like I'll be here for a few days.

My phone number is (517)749-6243.




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Daniel Burk
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Grumpy

Well, the terroists have won again. How, because more laws will be passed to rob me of money, and personal liberites.

More security won't change a dam thing. It's already been tried and didn't work.

Time to leave some real large craters, so folks actually get the message not to mess with the US. Terrorists don't pay attention to anything other food lodging and clothing. They need to know their lives and food lodging, and clothing can be in jeopardy, to begin to get the message.

Folks are mentioning 10,000 lives.
10,000
think good and long about that.
10,000
lives lost only to make a statement, and they we're just innocents.
Now the spineless folks that did it want to hide.

Tell the world they have 24 hours to turn in the guilty, while we start fueling the B2s B52s. Screw investigating. Let the world do it for us.

leirch

I don't think Bruce could have said it any better.

Grim Reaper

I would have to say that if (let's hope it's when) the US finally finds out what group is responsible for this, that every nation assists the US in bringing these guys to justice....ON U.S. SOIL!

And every nation that is knowingly assisting these people should be thought of as enemies, not of just the U.S., but of all free nations and to ANYONE who has to travel by air.

All I can say is, if I ever get caught in an airplane hi-jacking, I am going to turn into a "Rambo" and jump at them the first chance I get. What the hell, it looks like I am going to die anyways. The terrorists have just proven that I now have nothing to loose.

branz28

I agree glenn. If your gonna die, lets go out with a bang and make the best attempt possible at stoppping what could have been. And on Grumpy's post, i totally agree. We have not proven to have been strong, infact i believe we have shown to be more egotistic than anything. Today should be a wake up call for everyone to get up off their a$$ and do something. What i think about is tomarrow, and they days to follow that, what are we going to say if it happens again. I'm only 17 but 18 soon approaches in weeks to come and damit i don't want to have to put up with this and if bush of all people won't do something about it i'll vote for someone who will next time. I'm sure it would be a different tune if a official (chiefs of staff or the president himself) would have been on one of those flights. Maybe i'm thinking wild but it's just my opinion.

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89 IROC-Z 350 TPI

-Flowmaster Catback
-Performance Resource Chip
-700R4 (Rebuilt) Too much done to actually list
-K&N Airfilters
-Ported Plenum
-2.77 Gears (not much to brag about but eh, its there)
-MSD 8.5 mm plug wires
-Gutted cat
-!AIR
-Gutted Air Boxes

DM91RS

Guys I agree with you all. Just goes to show that no matter how shi**y you think your day is going, it could allways be worse. May the Lord be with all those involved.

ChillPhatCat

Palestein sure looked guilty to me...
I guess I'm one of the most effected on the boards, but I didn't know anybody in the towers and it doesn't effect me directly. About 60% of the people on campus here (Binghamton University) are from the city and I saw many worried people waiting for calls and several others already mourning the losses that they could be sure had occured. The entire campus was on lockdown until noon, they wanted everybody to know what happened and there have been TV sets on all over campus all day covering the events.... I can't help but only watch coverage of the events on TV, there is no feeling of joy when I look at a TV set today... the general feeling is very depressing here.

I just can't believe they did this with knives and box cutters... they must have been pretty well organized to pull off a stunt like this with technology that dates back 40,000 years. I am just in total disbelief.

Take care all and lets stand together with our fellow countrymen and nation's allies... we're all in this together now.

TRAXION

I haven't truly been able to find all the words for how I feel. Anger, confusion, horror, deep sadness, gloom ....

Basically, this intentional horrific disaster sucks beyond all that I can imagine. Thousands upon thousands ... dead. People in other countries cheering. Boxcutters and knives -- motionless, actionless passengers -- some killed, some on the cell phone, some scared chitless. All because somebody hates America and has stated that every American is a target.

What response to take? Who knows. Its hard to kill a nomad - a wanderer. The next couple weeks will determine the fate of many many many lives ... possibly American soldiers' lives. I only hope that China is on our side. If for any reason China sides with the terrorists then we will have World War III and life as we know it will be irrevocably changed forever. 1 Billion people in China is nothing to sneeze at .....

Although they are saying nothing about it I bet that we shot down the plane that crashed in Western PA. Doesn't really make sense using any other scenario.

*** 's Peace be with us - especially in the decisions that will be made in the next few weeks. My heart is with those families that have lost a loved one. It truly has been a horrible day.

Tim

steve8586iroc

I also agree with most eveyone here in that we have to pull together and help in anyway we can. I also think that complacentcy has affected America in many ways. Not only in tighter security but those of faith have grown complacent as well. When G O D 'S people pray He hears and moves, it apears we haven't bent the ear of G O D enough in the last forty plus years. America has approched being the latter day Babylon or Sodom and Gomorha. One thing that every one has to realize is that if you will look at and read for yourself (in the bible), that profecies are continuing to come true, that this is just bringing us closer to the finale chapter of history as we know it. I hope everyone will be prepared for the New Jeruselem. Hope to see you there. <><

V8Astro Captain

iTrader: (1)

BranZ28, yer not kidding. All of St.Louis was shut down. The Arch the Fed Bank downtown. You should've seen the mess at the gas stations!!! Lines were pouring out into the streets like gas was going out of style. They say they shut down some refinery and people are panicing for fear of a shortage. Well if everyone wasn't at the gas station right now there prolly won't be one! Being 19, I have never seen pandemonion on this level. I said "Now I've seen everything" when the Rams won the SuperBowl Guess I was wrong...

St.Louis was number 3 of 77 nuke targets in the cold war. That's what scares me. We know Afganistan has the bomb. I beleive in pounding answsers out of people who do this kinda thing, but we have to be careful of who we pound. They've already proved thier nuts, and I don't think they care about collateral damage from a nuke.

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'92 Astro 350 TBI Edelbrock intake, MSD 6AL, 3.42's, 2.5" exhaust, Flowmaster 40 2 chamber, B&M 2nd stage shift kit, 255 60 R15 tires on AR-727's

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

I'll be there <><. My .02...

Have they really accomplished anything? (as terrorists)...no. The object of terrorism is to scare or "terror" those who are victims into changing their ideas or policies out of shear fear. This is not the cas with today's carnage. Most americans (correct me if I'm wrong) are angry about today's terrorist attacks, not scared. If nothing else, the military will receive more funding, the CIA will get a boost, and America will go back to being that big, bad, don't mess with us nation. This was NOT the goal of the terrorists. They did win in one situation though. Are we as bad as we think we are? no. But we will get there really fast. In president bush's own words..."we will hunt down" those bastards who did this (and yes he said "folks"...but you know he had better words for them). This is more of a wakeup call than a political statement. It's time we stopped being the world's policeman and at the same time be the smallest wussiest kid on the playground. The end times are near and even Nostrodomas' prophecies are sound strangely true...a leader in the end times will be a son of a former leader. May G o d care for the souls of the deceased and their families left behind. And may G o d give those who did this a quick and painless death when our good ol boys in camo find'em in their tent on some sand covered barren place of Earth.

Scott 88 GTA

I'll be there as well. <><

Steve, I wouldn't say that America has aproached being a modern day Babylon yet (although it might not be far off) since we are still in full support of Israel. And Israel is the whole focus of this war. bin Laden has said previously that he considers America a target simply because we support Israel. And IMO, that is exactly what we should keep doing. Because the instant we don't, not only do we become Israel's enemy, but G o d's as well. All throughout history, if you look at the countries that were in support of Israel and then turn on them, they decline rapidly. The most recent case of this was England after WW2. At the start of WW2 England was one of the worlds Superpowers, just like the U.S. But after WW2 was over, the British fought the Jews for control of Israel. After much fighting Britain decided to ask the UN to solve the issue hoping that they would tell the British to retain control. However the UN decided (with Prez Truman's support) that separate Jewish and Arab states should be formed and be under their own control. The fighting continued and the Jews eventually gained their independence in 1948, which was a miracle of *** in it's own right. After this point Britain faded from being one of the world's superpowers and still has not returned to that position. Many people seem to forget that Israel is still G o d's chosen people. And whoever opposes them opposes the Almighty. I for one hope and pray that whatever happens, President Bush will remain in support of Israel, because that will be the winning side. It says so in the Bible.

JPrevost

I'm having a very hard time with all of this. My younger brothers birthday is Thursday and my youngest brother 9 has been asking some serious questions. How do you explain to a 9 year old what is going on after seeing people standing in the windows many stories up and then hearing about people on fire jumping! I'm not going to rant just like I'm not going to get any sleep tonight but please give blood!
My father can't do it because my stepmother is pregnant with my sister and incase she needs blood....
Let me just through this one thought out for everyone to think about. If Bin Laden is the guy, why would he be so stupid to have phone calls of "target hit" confirmations. Wouldn't he have told everybody he knew to NOT call him because obviously the results would be broadcast Worldwide!!! This is why I think we can't jump to conclusions even though I want to point fingers.
My Cousin is in Shrevesport L.A. right now and I just got off the phone with him. He's a B52 bombing electronics warefare officer. Basically he does some damage. He didn't tell me much but all I can say is that he's still in the US awaiting orders.
I really hope we don't have to go to war with a country. The last thing I want is to be involved in a WWIII were nukes are a very real and possible. If it turns out war is the only way for justice then I'll meet you on the front line.
My prayers go out to all the families of anybody in NYC this morning.

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, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

Ragin'87

i'm there, but I'm scared that there might actually happen. I've been 18 for just over a month, but this is America and others died for my freedom. If I'm called on to fight for my brother's freedom, I'm there.

Today was a day that will never be forgotten by any of us. My history teachers had Pearl Harbor, my generation has September 11, 2001. Our lives will never be the same, as "desensitized" as our culture may have become, this is still America, and America only gets stronger when other expect us to become weak.

My prayers go out to all who are affected by this tragedy. I can't sleep, so I'm going to open up the "electric church", my guitar calls... this one is for everyone.

stay safe.

Anthony

chiefz28

I too thought I was having a bad week but this tops any bad day or week I have ever had.When I first heard about what happened it took a few minutes of watching the news to get the full effect,then from the moment on I couldn't do anything but stay glued to the TV set.I live in Central,PA.So I was starting to worry as both N.Y.and D.C are only about 5 hours driving time from here.The they started talking about a plane going down near Pittsburgh which is only 1hr1/2 driving time from home(don't know what it is flying not very long I'm sure).All I could think was HOLY ****.That plane could have landed in my yard.All it would have taken was a bit of a change in course.I was really getting worried,I never thought I'd be living in a war zone.Pa.is pretty much smack dab in the middle of all this and that is very scary to me.I am with the rest of you in saying lets pray for all those family who have lost loved ones and for those survivors who are trapped in the rubble and keep all the resuce workers safe as they do all they can to sve as many lives possiable.

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1991 1LE Z28 355cu 5SPD (ORIGINALLY 305 BEST E.T. 14.186@99.86mph)NO PASSES ON 355 YET.MINI RAM INTAKE,AFR 190 HEADS,10.23:1cr 24# SVO INJECTORS,BBK 52mmTB,AFPR
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[This message has been edited by chiefz28 (edited September 11, 2001).]

Acceld Z

I just heard 300 firefighters and 75 police officers are unacounted for. For those that lost their lives trying to save the innocent.....honour lasts forever. For everything that has been said about your new president, I believe the wrong man has been crossed. Hopefully the powers that be will look for answers before action. Just my .02 cents.

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92Z28
89GTA

Z_Ghost

This has got to stop, the hole world is going to come apart.

My brother in-law works in the pentagon and my sister said that they are all ok. She said that she heard and felt the plane crash into it. I did not find out that they were all ok until just now, 4:30 am. Like the guy on the radio said tonight, do not worry about bring the guilty to Justus, just kill the bastards.

Grumpy

Just love listening to the talking heads. They are playing to religious and political topics.

This ain't about politics or religion. It's about being members of the HUMAN race. To act in such a manner divources these folks from being extended any humanity. There are so many hate groups that indorse this behaviour, I'm not at all against just getting close. Some black glass lined craters are sounding better all the time.

266 folks who were just traveling, 800 Pentagon workers, 280 cops and firemen, and heaven know how many at the WTC. I just can't imagine.

Time for some serious arsed teaching aids

Grim Reaper

Starting with Bagdad? While Bin Laden may have been the "master-mind", dollar to doughnuts they were trained in Iraq.

For ANY country involved, a shower of Tomahawk and cruise missles should be sent as a "thank you" gift. Like 1 for every person that was killed with their name engraved on it.

z28dan

Well guys the aftermath has started. The region I am responsible for in my company is the same area as this tragedy. There is a company (no going to give the name) this was in the upper 2/3s of the trade towers. There was 1100 people in that office. I talked to many of them on a daily basis, have not heard a word from any of them. This hurts! I feel like someone beatup my family/killed and kicked my dog. I don't know who did this, but I feel we should morn and then build a new building, shape it like a middle finger and point it at who ever did this. I also suggest pulling out the 4th of July flags and putting on our cars to show respect. As you can tell I am a bitter about this crap. I don't mean to offend anyone.

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1988 L98
Vette Heads/no EGR
SLP Headers/Y-Pipe
ARAP bin

Ragin'87

I agree with the flags on the cars. IF those *******s are watching, they need to know American morale will not be brought down. The Japanese feared they had mearly woken a sleeping giant with their attack on Pearl Harbor. To the those responsible for this brutal and senseless attack, I say this: Take what Japan got, and keep multiplying, indefinately.

Anthony

Grim Reaper

NATO has just declared this an attack on NATO itself. Under the NATO Agreement, any attack on a NATO member is declared an attack on NATO itself.

steve8586iroc

Has anybody seen or heard from FastBroker. I think he works in NYC that but not sure where. He also traveled to LA quite often. I hope he is safe and with his family right now.

VetteMan

With 21 years of defending this Great Nation and Our Way of Life. I, standby, awaiting our Commander-in Chief's orders and the officers appointed over me.

"*** Bless America"

V/R,
Frank

snflupigus

I work at omaha steaks, i had a few calls today from people, wondering where their steaks were. one even had the ***** to say, "i live in upper manhatan, nothing happened here" and another that said "that happened yesterday, why cant my steaks be delivered today?" and even another who was mad saying "i order twice a year, and something always has to happen" commenting about how we couldnt ship his package via air overnight to nevada. To those people and anybody else who is complaining about your tiny and uncomparable problems. you do not deserve to be americans. I cried yesterday and today. for the people who died, and for the people who may now in the future if we happen to find a state to declare war on, i cried because my nationalism and patriotism has been enstilled in me enough to know i would have to join the military, and fight for my country, or i would forever see myself as a coward and hypocrite. i saw the presidents plane fly over on its way to sac yesterday as well while going from class to class like nothing had happened. i fealt guilty that i was able to go on with my day knowing that others were not. I am sad, and in a state of continued sadness. Until i hear that we have united as planet, not just a nation, to fight evil in our world. until i know that more good than bad has come of 9/11/01.

Ragin'87

someone had the nerve to blame the passengers in a discussion in my english class today. I did not think I could grow more disgusted, but I was wrong. The time that follows will be long, and sorrowful.

Grumpy

There seems to be some evidence that the plane that crashed in PA was during an attempt of 3 of the passengers to regain control of the plane.

This attitude of cooperating when a hostage can just get folks killed. There is a time and a place to stand your ground and say no. 3-6 guys with knives, and 80 passengers. Sure your gonna get cut, but that's alot better then dieing. Or being part of an mass murder like what happened the other day.

Just look at the Cole.
Then wonder why the WTC event took place.

Just hope GW has the ***** to do what he's indicated he will. Course this getting a committee of nations together just is BS. We are (were) the leaders of the Free World, and now we need permission from others to act?. That's pathetic.

Free world means being able to travel without fear of some non human hurting you or your family. Was a time, when a US citizen could travel without metal detectors, or fear of being taken hostage. But, that was at a time when the US was and acted like it was the leader.

We need to make a few serious statements, ie Adult Education time, that leave some black glass lined craters. Show the world we mean business. Till we do we're gonna wind up second or third grade citizens.

The world is not a totally safe place, you / we/ I have to be willing to take on the responsibility of being members of the human race. there are far too many folks that b*tch and moan, but never do any dues paying. Being born in the US, or paying taxes are no more then accidents, it's spending some time actually making the country a better place that counts.

Arrgh, I being to rant, and trying to express too much in too little room.

Ragin'87

While I agree that we need to act, and act with everything we have. I do think a coallition sends a much stronger message than just the USA blowing **** up. We ARE still THE superpower, however the potential for this to turn in to World War III exists in a much higher probability if we go it alone. We're already backed by enough people to kick the tires and light the fires. I too think the bastards responsible a super-sized order of **** YOU engraved tomahawks, GBU's.. the whole shabang.

I do think that given the opportunity, the passengers would have fought back. If they had KNOWN earlier that they were going to die for sure anyway. Only I don't think that was the case for many of them.

on the safety of the air issue. I always travel with my Gerber Gator.. 3.75" blade. I have never been stopped for it. When I moved back from Malaysia, both myself and my brother had small(1.75 ft.) swords we bought in China in one of our two carryons... we didn't even know about it until we got back to Houston. They were not sharp anywhere but at the tip, but we got them through security at all of the following airports with no problem whatsoever: Malaysia International, Singapore International, Tokyo Narita, LAX, Denver, and Houston Intercontinental.

in no way am I trying to blame anyone but those that planned and executed the attack. The whole thing disgusts me.

snflupigus

for the flights that went into wtc, i dont think the people knew that they were going to die, probably just that the plane was being hijacked, and all hoped that it would land somewhere else, and they would be let go. People on the other two planes had cell phones and had called and quickly heard about the other two planes, and decided to try not to let more attacks happen.

As for our action, I beleive it will be complete. I think there will be ground troop invasion of any country not complying with our requests to turn in those responsible. I think we will be assisted by other countries with their troops as well. If a country like afganastan, iraq, north korea, cant conduct themselves in calm respectable manners as the rest of the worlds countries do. NATO will be running their country for them soon.

There are plenty of states that are not democratic, but are able to be recognized as nation states. those that are not able to control their own citizens will soon have it done for them.

I think our alliance with the rest of the world is not for response to this act, but as a coalition to end all terrorism and begin a true peacetime. tragedy brings people together, our government is doing the right thing to use this as something to unite the world, and not simply getting even.

Grumpy

The continual lack of action is what BEGS for this to be repeated. And it will.

Like the lack of action with the Cole. A warship, is hit, and 47 seamen are dead. Not one finger was lifted for a payback. That is really tragic.

Look at the liberites we're giving up.
The terrorists are winning. Even if we get who did this, we've already given up more freedom. this needs to be a wake up call to take action. This hiding in the corners when chit hits the fan is not what made America great. Nor will be be the leader of the FREE WORLD if everyone hides when there is a challenge.

SATURN5

St.Louis was number 3 of 77 nuke targets in the cold war.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, Here in Dayton, Oh we were #1 when S.A.C. was headquartered here at Wright Patterson A.F.B.. We still are in the top ten with all the secret projects that still go on there. America has not lived thru a day like Tuesday in our history. Pearl Harbour was a tragic day, but it was military vs. military, today was a collection of terrorist groups, headed by Bin Ladin, against humanity.

It now look like the passengers in the plane that hit in Penn, fought back, possibly causing it to crash there.

I think Japan's Admiral Yamamoto, the mastermind behind Pearl Harbour, after the attack qoute, "I fear we have woke a sleeping giant", may the terrorists of the world tremble, for that giant is awake again......

[This message has been edited by SATURN5 (edited September 13, 2001).]

pizza_guy

I was searching for something completely unrelated today, and I stumbled across this thread...

Six years later...wow, people's attitudes have changed. I thought I'd bump this back up to remind people of how angry/pissed off we were when this happened. I've slowly grown unhappy about the "War on Terrorism", but reading about this like it was yesterday is like a kick in the gut.

Unfortunetly, it seems like nothing has changed. We're still the policeman of the world. The world hates us now more than ever, but if we stop now, were "cut and run" *******. Can't win either way.

HOWEVER, I personally haven't heard of a succesful islamic radical attack on American soil since. We should give Bush at least a little credit for that, if nothing else.

I'll add to the "black glass crater" vote. If we keep diddlying around with "troop-surges", there won't be many Iraqis left to protect.

Grim Reaper

At the time of 9-11, it was good for all of us to talk about it because EVERYONE was in a state of shock. The world lost it's innocence that day.

Yes, things have changed greatly in the last six years. Some for the better, a lot for the worst. And a lot depends on your political views.

However, as we are no longer ina state of shock and the way things have become so polarized, this is too hot of a subject to be left floating around.

So, I am going to lock this post and let it drift back into Old-Post-Land.